prostate massage

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Lubro - 07 Oct 2004 22:50 GMT

saw a new uro this past week.
said the prostate was indeed enlarged, and he did a massage, then he
did the
push to get fluids..
he examined these fluids and said he found "pus pockets"
says could be from a prior infection...
wants me back in 3 weeks for a follow up and another massage.
since I have reactions to the typical prostate drugs..leviquin,
septra, etc
he said i should just not use any antibiotics..
i have read that this procedure can spread infections, and am
concerned about
not being on an antibiotic to prevent this sort of thing.
also read that, if one has cancer cells in the prostate, this
procedure could
cause these to migrate...(i don't think i have cancer...low psa..but
this is a concern)
i have doxycycline at home, and am thinking about taking this just
incase there is an infection...
guess I'm looking for any info i can find about this...
have read about some who have had bad experiences with the massages...
any comments or information would be greatly appreciated.
thanks....
Lou

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bu2 - 08 Oct 2004 05:20 GMT

I have recently had the dubious pleasure of going through
a similar massage experience.

> saw a new uro this past week.
> said the prostate was indeed enlarged, and he did a massage, then he
> did the
> push to get fluids..
> he examined these fluids and said he found "pus pockets"
> says could be from a prior infection...

I only have a slight enlargement still the uro decided to massage.
Also he put me on a regime of a mostly antibiotic cocktail of drugs.
Then he went on a vacation which meant no massages but I kept
taking the drugs including the Levaquin (Levofloxacin).

By coincidence the other uro was not available and another one
I could have gone to left on vacation. So did my family doctor.
I consulted three different pharmacists when I had some problems
but they felt I should continue taking the Levaquin.

Eventually I started having problems with sleeping, anxiety,
and a number of others including vision ones and an episode that
looked like a TIA. I ended up at the ER. Still nobody believed it
had anything to do with the Levaquin. My uro came back before
the ER visit. He then tried to give me Cipro i.e. another quinolone
based antibiotic. I refused.

In the meantime I had found several internet sites and groups full
of people with terrible problems after taking Levaquin, Cipro and
the like.

So we continued with a few visits and massages twice a week.
The claim was chronic inflammation of the prostate due to some
bacteria that were never found but pus cells were present in
some of the samples.

I was in pain after massages so I was given Vioxx ( banned a
couple of days ago and taken off the shelves) as well as some
other medicine including flomax. Then it was decided I was
sensitive to both flomax and massages and it all stopped.

I had a transrectal ultra sound test of the prostate a couple of
days ago. The prostate is only slightly enlarged i.e. I do not have
BPH. There is a small cyst which nothing can be done about
and should not have given me any symptoms.

So, to summarize. The two months of treatment and a month
of 500 mg dosages of Levaquin plus other medicine made no
difference except to saddle me with all kinds of lasting side
effects. Fortunately mine seem to be milder (for now) than a lot
of other patients who post on internet.

Last time I had sex I could not ejaculate and I think that massages
did that but it has been blamed on Flomax which after all is possible.

Now I am only taking Prostaease and Prostaphyl-2, two herbal
remedies and I am told to start with another one - the Wobenzym.

I would really appreciate if anyone has comments on these three
remedies. Or internet sites which explain their effects and possible
side effects. All I found are places that want to sell me those
products.

I am told - no massages for a couple of months at least.

> wants me back in 3 weeks for a follow up and another massage.
> since I have reactions to the typical prostate drugs..leviquin,
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> thanks....
> Lou

Antibiotics do not help against cancer.

I also worried about a cancer that may spread or calculi I may have
that could do damage if prostate is massaged. Probably just paranoia
on my part but there is a small chance one having those without being
discovered. Massage is contraindicated in cases like that.

If the massages hurt you and do you no good don't let them do it. If
you feel they are helping you then it is okay. I am told 50 years ago
the massage of the prostate was common but then antibiotics came in.

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NorthernSpy1 - 09 Oct 2004 19:18 GMT

>Eventually I started having problems with sleeping, anxiety,
>and a number of others including vision ones and an episode that
>looked like a TIA. I ended up at the ER. Still nobody believed it
>had anything to do with the Levaquin.

Amazing, ain't it?

For one thing, Cipro doesn't kill the organism (Chlamydia) most responsible for
epididymitis. One study actually says it puts chlamydia into a "persistent"
state.

Levaquin might be more useful, but for Levaquin AND Cipro side effects are rare
if you take them the approved 7 to 14 days. You take them for months and the
side effects become extremely likely (67% in one study by Dr. Shoskes). And
they don't always go away. At least one doctor thinks they *always* damage
ligaments (you just may not know it for awhile) (the idea isn't nuts -- they
cause permant damage in growing children, and in dogs).

And did anyone warn you of those possibilities?

HA.

>So we continued with a few visits and massages twice a week.
>The claim was chronic inflammation of the prostate due to some
>bacteria that were never found but pus cells were present in
>some of the samples.

There are other antibiotics. All antibiotics can be deadly, but Zithromax and
Doxycycline (and no doubt others -- I'm no doctor) don't have Cipro's side
effects.

>I was in pain after massages so I was given Vioxx ( banned a
>couple of days ago and taken off the shelves) as well as some
>other medicine including flomax. Then it was decided I was
>sensitive to both flomax and massages and it all stopped.

Flomax is sometimes given even if you don't have urinary symptoms because (1)
it make stop prostate spasms, and (2) seems to make antibiotics more successful
(maybe because it relaxes things, and lets the antibiotics in).

>I had a transrectal ultra sound test of the prostate a couple of
>days ago. The prostate is only slightly enlarged i.e. I do not have
>BPH. There is a small cyst which nothing can be done about
>and should not have given me any symptoms.

At least you got that. The Center for Disease Control recommends it when
antibiotics are not working, but no one seems to do it (or at least not any of
my FIVE --COUNT'EM! -- quack urologists).

>So, to summarize. The two months of treatment and a month
>of 500 mg dosages of Levaquin plus other medicine made no
>difference except to saddle me with all kinds of lasting side
>effects. Fortunately mine seem to be milder (for now) than a lot
>of other patients who post on internet.

Did you get an EPS test for infection?

Or the multiday Chlamydia culture?

or a semen culture?

You may not have an infection, but so far no one has done any real work to find
out.

>Last time I had sex I could not ejaculate and I think that massages
>did that but it has been blamed on Flomax which after all is possible.

How long after? The retrograde ejaculation thing is supposed to wear off.

>> wants me back in 3 weeks for a follow up and another massage.
>> since I have reactions to the typical prostate drugs..leviquin,
>> septra, etc

Zithromax. Doxycycline. And others.

But start with getting tested first.

>Antibiotics do not help against cancer.

That's not 100% clear either. It may kill bacteria which change cells into
becoming cellularly defective and malignant.

>If the massages hurt you and do you no good don't let them do it. If
>you feel they are helping you then it is okay. I am told 50 years ago
>the massage of the prostate was common but then antibiotics came in.

maybe but some think they work well together. You squish out the bad juice,
and in so doing stimulate some blood into the normal quiet prostate. Just
speculation (not mine alone) but may help get antibiotics where they belong.
P massage + Antibiotics makes more sense than either alone.

- Carlos

northernspy1@aol.com

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bu2 - 10 Oct 2004 14:08 GMT

Hi there!

> >Eventually I started having problems with sleeping, anxiety,
>>and a number of others including vision ones and an episode that
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> "persistent"
> state.

I did have some form of a problem with epididymus. My doctor at the time did
try to help but did not think it was serious. Since that time my sex life
has been going downhill. I do not know how much of it is from just getting
older. I
do not think age is the only answer here.

> Levaquin might be more useful, but for Levaquin AND Cipro side effects are
> rare
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> they
> cause permant damage in growing children, and in dogs).

7 to 14 days? No, unfortunately much longer. 2 days of zithromax, then 27
days of Levaquin until I insisted we stop. Also 12 days of metronizadole
right
after zithromax, some periodic Vioxx (now banned), almost two moths of
Xatral
which was then replaced with no reason given with Flomax. I semed to be
affected with Flomax negatively (ejaculation) although I wonder if they know
they
damaged me with the prostate massage and find Flomax a convenient patsy.

When I said no more Levaquin, please - the uro said okay I will give
you Cipro. Which I nixed. Now he says no more quinolones for you.
But he also says I am prescribing Levaquin left, right and center!

Reading about other people's problems I realize, so far, I have done
quite well. Mind you I have all kinds of symptoms but they do seem
to be weakening.

> And did anyone warn you of those possibilities?
>
> HA.

Exactly. Not only that. My uro and his two colleagues where all
unavailable in August, most of it anyway, and I kept taking the
damn thing. My family doctor is almost impossible to see this
season. She is on her 3rd vacation, this time for a month. Each
time I needed her she was away. I like her because she does
use her head which other (mostly male doctors) in the past did
not do.

So i asked the pharmacists about stopping Levaquin. On three
occasions. They were nice about it but always urged me to go
on!! The family doctor's replacement did not seem to accept
that I may have been affected by the quinolone drug. Neither
did the attending physician at the ER, or the eye specialist at
the eye clinic, or the uros etc.

I saw my own ophtalmologist a couple of days ago. Based
on my description he believes I did not have a TIA but rather
an ocular migraine. I must say I do hope he is right.
All the tests so far seem to support that.

But I maintain that the symptoms including the migraine were
caused or magnified by the Levaquin. And there is the rub.
Nobody wants to admit that possibility.

>>So we continued with a few visits and massages twice a week.
>>The claim was chronic inflammation of the prostate due to some
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Doxycycline (and no doubt others -- I'm no doctor) don't have Cipro's side
> effects.

Yes, but now they say I should only take herbal remedies such as
Prosta Ease, Prostaphil-2 and Zobendym. I am taking the first two
and feel much better. But I am not sure how much of that is simply
the body immune system kicking in.

>>I was in pain after massages so I was given Vioxx ( banned a
>>couple of days ago and taken off the shelves) as well as some
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> any of
> my FIVE --COUNT'EM! -- quack urologists).

You mean the ultra sound? I have had a number of tests especially
pursuing the possible TIA thing. As for the uros they are mostly like
that. For what it is worth I think this team I saw really did want to
help me. I do wish they did all the testing first and then try therapies,
drugs etc not the other way around.

>>So, to summarize. The two months of treatment and a month
>>of 500 mg dosages of Levaquin plus other medicine made no
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Did you get an EPS test for infection?

Nope. I am not sure what it is either.

> Or the multiday Chlamydia culture?

I do not think so.

They did check my urine a few times as well as blood. Perhaps
I am being silly claiming I did not have this test or that one but
actually did.

However nothing significant was ever found. I do not think I needed
the massage or the heavy antibiotic treatment.

> or a semen culture?

Not semen per se. The fluid from the prostate was analyzed but that is not
really semen.

> You may not have an infection, but so far no one has done any real work to
> find
> out.

Right on.

>>Last time I had sex I could not ejaculate and I think that massages
>>did that but it has been blamed on Flomax which after all is possible.
>
> How long after? The retrograde ejaculation thing is supposed to wear off.

I sure hope so. I am 65 but feel in most things very young. Even childish
sort of. :-) Not because of senility - I have always been that way. But I do
not have sex as often as in the past, anymore.

The problem happened when I was actually taking Flomax. That was maybe a
week ago. That also destroyed what little confidence I still had. With
sexual things once you start doubting yourself than it becomes even harder.

>>> wants me back in 3 weeks for a follow up and another massage.
>>> since I have reactions to the typical prostate drugs..leviquin,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> into
> becoming cellularly defective and malignant.

Of course you are right. They might help depending on an individual case.

>>If the massages hurt you and do you no good don't let them do it. If
>>you feel they are helping you then it is okay. I am told 50 years ago
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> northernspy1@aol.com

Well - I know the theory but there are dangers with massage too. If you
have small calculi, or a small growth, or some other problem or sensitivity
in the area.

Also it should be done by someone with knowledge and experience and long
fingers. Otherwise some damage may occur.

I am not trying to scare you. Still if you are in real trouble and the
massage does seem to help - why not?

Best wishes!!

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