Does Shoskes Believe in the Manila Protocol?

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Out of Work Programmer - 12 Sep 2004 10:28 GMT

Here is a section from a 2002 L.A. Times article called "The Other Prostate
Problem". A link to it is made available at
http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/press.html. It's interesting how
webmaster slams Dr. Feliciano for this practice, but when CP.com approved
Dr. Shoskes practices the same, it's okay.

Here are the two key paragraphs from the article...

<<
Ejaculation brings relief for some men, while worsening prostatitis anguish
in others. A technique known as prostatic massage, first popularized in the
early 1900s, appears to be making a comeback. A doctor inserts a gloved
finger into the patient's rectum and rubs the prostate. The goal is to empty
ducts within the gland, which, if clogged, can cause pain.

This method might be a tough sell to men who freak out when it's time for
the annual digital rectal exam, especially because several massages per week
are necessary (some men even learn to self-massage). But Zeitlin and
urologist Daniel Shoskes of the Cleveland Clinic in Weston, Fla., found in
one study that about 40% of difficult-to-treat prostatitis cases improved
with a combination of massage and antibiotics.

BTW, Webmaster, why do you suppose Dr. Shoskes mysteriously left L.A. a few
years ago to go to Florida of all places? L.A. is the hub for people coming
to the U.S. from throughout the world seeking specialized medical attention.
The Encino clinic is no longer there. Dr. Zeitlin has rented space in a
Sherman Oaks urological office in an attempt to start his own practice. I
contacted UCLA and they indicated that the top postatitis researcher on
their staff today is a Dr. Smith. Care to explain this?

Reply to this Message

Vote Kerry - 12 Sep 2004 14:35 GMT

> Here is a section from a 2002 L.A. Times article called "The Other
> Prostate Problem". A link to it is made available at
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> of difficult-to-treat prostatitis cases improved with a combination
> of massage and antibiotics.

I think you'll find, if you overcome your laziness long enough to do the
necessary research, that the 40% referred to were 40% of the 15% of men
found to have infections after unusually thorough testing was used. So we're
actually talking about (40% of 15%) = 7% of the broad total of men with
CPPS. That's about in keeping with most estimates of the incidence of
Chronic Bacterial Prostatitis.

> BTW, Webmaster, why do you suppose Dr. Shoskes mysteriously left L.A.
> a few years ago to go to Florida of all places? L.A. is the hub for
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> indicated that the top postatitis researcher on their staff today is
> a Dr. Smith. Care to explain this?

Webmaster isn't answering you, so I shall: I believe Dr Shoskes was offered
a very lucrative position at a top clinic, where he has his own CPPS
mini-clinic. He is also now living near to his family, who live in that part
of Florida. His own explanation of the move did not seem suspect in any way:
http://tinyurl.com/3luyt

Why has the clinic in LA closed? You could also ask why the clinics in
Manila and Tucson are doing so badly. Prostatitis clinics wither and die
without a good reputation. When Shoskes left LA, he took his fame and
patient-pulling power with him. Zeitlin is relatively unknown, deservedly so
in my opinion.

BTW, "programmer", I see you are using an Atlanta, Georgia based Earthlink
account. Brad Hennefent lives there. Coincidence? LOL.

Reply to this Message

eltonfan28 - 13 Sep 2004 05:13 GMT

"Vote Kerry" <kerry@for.prez.com> wrote

> Why has the clinic in LA closed? You could also ask why the clinics in
> Manila and Tucson are doing so badly. Prostatitis clinics wither and die
> without a good reputation. When Shoskes left LA, he took his fame and
> patient-pulling power with him. Zeitlin is relatively unknown, deservedly so
> in my opinion.

Vote Kerry,

I have seen Dr. Zeitlin twice already and I plan to see him again
later this month. I assumed he was a good doctor since he worked with
Dr. Shoskes in the past and continues to consult with him today. Are
you suggesting, however, that my money would be better spent by
traveling up to Stanford? I just need an honest opinion since I am
paying out of my own pocket for these visits and cannot afford to see
every doctor who specialized in prostatitis.

Also, Dr. Zeitlin performed a DRE on me and said that my pain was
coming from the prostate rather than the pelvic floor and thus I'm not
likely to benefit from the Stanford Protocol. Does you think I should
get a second opinion?

Thanks.

Reply to this Message

Vote Kerry - 13 Sep 2004 05:53 GMT

>> Why has the clinic in LA closed? You could also ask why the clinics
>> in Manila and Tucson are doing so badly. Prostatitis clinics wither
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> likely to benefit from the Stanford Protocol. Does you think I should
> get a second opinion?

IMO, Zeitlin is an excellent uro, but he's not a top rank male pelvic pain
specialist. He's not responsive to radical new approaches in my (very
limited) personal experience of him.

I /do/ suggest you go the Stanford route if you can.

Reply to this Message

eltonfan28 - 14 Sep 2004 09:59 GMT

"Vote Kerry" <kerry@for.prez.com> wrote

> IMO, Zeitlin is an excellent uro, but he's not a top rank male pelvic pain
> specialist. He's not responsive to radical new approaches in my (very
> limited) personal experience of him.
>
> I /do/ suggest you go the Stanford route if you can.

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll call Stanford right after my next
visit with Zeitlin.

Reply to this Message