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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostatitis / February 2004Effective Treatments
Good afternoon all. Just wondering if anyone out there has had success with the Stanford Protocal? There are several ways to treat this, and for the most part it seems that the following have shown to be effective: Time Prostate Massage with ABX therapy Again, I am receving 10 - 20 emails a day from sufferers who privately are interested in the Tucson Treatment process. This is great. And I dont mind them. However, we need to keep the conversations going on this site as well. Even if we disagree. Is there anything else out there that is helping? We need to help the sufferers who are just reading and not feeling comfortable to post (wonder why?). Lets keep the momentum going and fight this disease! > Good afternoon all. Just wondering if anyone out there has had > success with the Stanford Protocal? There are several ways to treat [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Time > Prostate Massage with ABX therapy Please tell me the published proof that prostate massage with antibiotics "have been shown to be effective"? Where's the study of the Tucson's clinic's results? Where's the study comparing antibiotics with massage with both with placebo? Sorry, don't exist. Somehow you take the fact that many desperate men buy into the sales job that some clinics pass off as science as proof that the treatment works. So, in answer to your question, here are treatments that have shown efficacy in CPPS in some fashion superior to placebo: alpha blockers (esp alfuzosin) quercetin cernilton low temperature prostate heating therapies acupuncture finasteride Elmiron mepartricin (brand new study) possibly Cellcept (Dr JD's study presented at AUA and never published) > > Good afternoon all. Just wondering if anyone out there has had > > success with the Stanford Protocal? There are several ways to treat [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > mepartricin (brand new study) > possibly Cellcept (Dr JD's study presented at AUA and never published) Good morning Mr. Pubmed. So what you are saying is for a treatment to be effective there has to be published scientific proof? I believe there are many therapies that are effective without some double blind placebo test. I am proof! I dont need a scientific test to tell me that prostate massage with ABX therapy took away my pain. I think thats the best proof of all. Again, I am not a secret poster. I will be glad to meet a sufferer anytime (you will have to come to Glendale AZ though)over coffee or lunch and discuss my success being treated by the Tucson Clinic. Again, it may not work for all. Also, the Tucson clinic is not the only clinic using massage and ABX therapy. When I went to the Mayo Clinic, thats the first course of treatment. It was also the first course of treatment by the other Uros I had seen. Are you saying that all these docs and hospitals are wasting our time and money by using this technique? They must believe it is effective for a given sample of the population. Lets not mention all the Asian therapies of acupuncture, massage and other alternative therapies. To my knowlege there is no scientific proof that Acupuncture works! But it does work for some. Should we not try these novel therapies because there is no scientific proof? Read my post again. You said: "There are several ways to treat > > > this, and for the most part it seems that the following have shown to > > > be effective" You did NOT say "this treatment helped me and others say it did for them too". There is a BIG difference. What about all the treatments that are no better than placebo? If placebo has a response rate of 20-30% as is typical in CPPS, there are a lot of men out there who feel better after taking them. What does that mean? It means they are better but it DOES NOT mean that those treatments have been shown to be effective. And incidentally, there is scientific evidence about both the efficacy and potential mechanism of action of acupuncture. Now, are physicians wasting their time if they are using unproven therapies? If they haven't been tested and they help some people, then it is worth trying them, at least until the studies have been done. If however the study is done and the treatment is no better than placebo, then the doctor is exposing patients to potential harm with no added benefit. > Good morning Mr. Pubmed. So what you are saying is for a treatment > to be effective there has to be published scientific proof? I [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > that Acupuncture works! But it does work for some. Should we not > try these novel therapies because there is no scientific proof? > Read my post again. You said: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Good morning. I understand your points and I appreciate the civil debate. Just not sure that the "placebo" test is the all definitive test. The placebo testing process is used in Allopathic medicine for measurements. Allopathic medicine is the new kid on the block (as opposed to Holistic or Ayurvedic) and I'm not sold that all these tests are "finalizing." In my case, there was a direct correlation between the reduction of WBC's in my prostatic fluid and the reduction of pain. As I went through the massage treatments, subsequent labs showed a decrease in WBC's. Pain was also reduced and for the most part eliminated. Treatment #1 was an excruciating experience. I could actually feel my prostate unplugging as the treatments continued. The need to urinate all the time was the first symptom to go away, followed by split stream and later rectal pain (for me the rectal pain was the worst). If I remember correctly, I had 90% pain reduction by treatment #10. > > Good morning Mr. Pubmed. So what you are saying is for a treatment > > to be effective there has to be published scientific proof? I [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > that Acupuncture works! But it does work for some. Should we not > > try these novel therapies because there is no scientific proof? "Mr. Pubmed" wrote.. > low temperature prostate heating therapies I can see this potentially helping, but can you please elaborate? What therapies and how? Thankyou. > "Mr. Pubmed" wrote.. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thankyou. There have been small studies showing efficacy for both microwave and water induced thermotherapy (WIT). A recent study at the AUA showed no difference between TUNA and a sham treatment. "Mr. Pubmed" wrote.. > There have been small studies showing efficacy for both microwave and > water induced thermotherapy (WIT). A recent study at the AUA showed no > difference between TUNA and a sham treatment. Thanks. I thought this is what you were referring too. I tell ya.....I like the concept of microwave & water induced thermotherapy, but very wary of possible tissue cooking and residual damage, ( if that's possible? ). Why do I like it? Because I imagine the heat destroying pathogens that antibiotics and antifungals cannot reach nor eradicate. If it is safe, I would do it. So, if anyone needs a patient for this, let me know. Grazie. > "Mr. Pubmed" wrote.. >> There have been small studies showing efficacy for both microwave and >> water induced thermotherapy (WIT). <clip> > I imagine the heat destroying pathogens that antibiotics > and antifungals cannot reach nor eradicate. <clip> Heat may help with healing by increasing circulation but what the advantage of using micro waves would be I can't imagine. My experience in the eradication of fungi leads me to doubt there is much to be gained using heat, and that fungal infections on the skin take a long time to eradicate. It would be logical to assume that internal problems would take as long or longer. Fungi are known to produce chemicals that interfere with blood circulation. This is one reason they can be so difficult to cure and it would suggest that things that improved circulation such as heat or asprin could be of benifit. (Some anti-dandruff medications contain Salicylate Acid) jrh > (Some anti-dandruff medications contain Salicylate Acid) What do you know about Salicylate Acid? I had a very brief read on it, and apparently this is a substance that should be avoided if you suffer from certain diseases or one was dealing with a fungal overgrowth. True or not? Regards. >> (Some anti-dandruff medications contain Salicylate Acid) > What do you know about Salicylate Acid? I had a very brief read on it, and > apparently this is a substance that should be avoided if you suffer from > certain diseases or one was dealing with a fungal overgrowth. True or not? >Regards. According to http://www.soscheveux.com/pedicul.html it is a reducer used to treat a fungal infection of the scalp by helping in the removal of the outer layers where the pityrosporum is present. > Again, I am receving 10 - 20 emails a day from sufferers who privately > are interested in the Tucson Treatment process. This is great. You are a troll and a shill, John. If you were really a patient cured by Polacheck's "rub-a-dub-dub with pills" treatment in Tucson, you wouldn't be here. Transparent. > > Again, I am receving 10 - 20 emails a day from sufferers who privately > > are interested in the Tucson Treatment process. This is great. > > You are a troll and a shill, John. If you were really a patient cured by > Polacheck's "rub-a-dub-dub with pills" treatment in Tucson, you wouldn't > be here. Transparent. I am not "John P." Webmaster. Why dont you give me your home phone number and I will get a phone card and call you? You will hear that I am not Dr. P. Geesh! Are you brave enough to give out your personal info? Or are you going to hide behind your "webmaster" alias? Wish I could give you my home vitals, but I am a former Police Officer who still has people locked up that would love to find out where I reside. I also think Dr. P is a bit older. I graduated high school in 1981, and then did 4 yrs in the Marines until 1985. I think Dr. P was well on his way to practicing medicine by then. I am on this website purely to assist sufferers. Its important to have all sides of an argument and/or treatment represented. > Again, I am receving 10 - 20 emails a day from sufferers who privately > are interested in the Tucson Treatment process. This is great. And I > dont mind them. Perhaps you'd like to receive phone calls as well? http://www.ci.glendale.az.us/CommunityPartnerships/contactus.cfm If you want to champion a commercial clinic that has received substantial public funds for conducting a study, but that has never published a study, then be prepared to face the music. > > Again, I am receving 10 - 20 emails a day from sufferers who privately > > are interested in the Tucson Treatment process. This is great. And I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > substantial public funds for conducting a study, but that has never > published a study, then be prepared to face the music. Good morning and no problem. I've gave you enough hints over the past month, its about time you figured things out. But remember, you think I am Dr. P! The info you posted is accurate and public info. I'll take the calls, be glad to speak with sufferers who need assistance. I've been e-mailing several a day and been on the phone with another two, one from Europe. Fact is, the Tucson Clinic provided effective treatment for my condition. So, webmaster, would you like to meet? Feel free to give me a call or if you want to fly into town I'll be glad to pick you up at Sky Harbor and discuss over a cup of coffee. Now, that we solved the mystery. Lets get back to the discussion and finding the best treatments for this disease. For me it was Tucson. Still looking to hear from folks using the Stanford Protocal and other novel therapies. > Good morning and no problem. I've gave you enough hints over the past > month, its about time you figured things out. But remember, you think > I am Dr. P! You were either Polacheck, or a colluding friend, or a misguided patient who inadvertently got over a pelvic muscle spasm with "prostate" (read "pelvic") massage. Either way, your messages are ill-advised, because they serve to confuse men into thinking that their problems are prostatocentric. > The info you posted is accurate and public info. I'll > take the calls, be glad to speak with sufferers who need assistance. > I've been e-mailing several a day and been on the phone with another > two, one from Europe. Of course. You are promulgating the most popular misconception, that of prostate infection, so yes, you will get a lot of responses. > Lets get back to the discussion and > finding the best treatments for this disease. For me it was Tucson. > Still looking to hear from folks using the Stanford Protocal and other > novel therapies. You haven't looked very far, have you? Start here: http://www.chronicpelvicpain.us/viewforum.php?f=5 > > Good morning and no problem. I've gave you enough hints over the past > > month, its about time you figured things out. But remember, you think [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > You haven't looked very far, have you? Start here: > http://www.chronicpelvicpain.us/viewforum.php?f=5 Hey, thanks for the link to those msgs. Looks like sufferers are receiving relief from the Stanford therapy. Thats great! Like I said, I believe there are probably several effective treatments. I hadnt seen any posts supporting the Stanford therapy, but it also appears I wasnt looking hard enough. Its great to see sufferers finding relief from this affliction. > > Good morning and no problem. I've gave you enough hints over the past > > month, its about time you figured things out. But remember, you think [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > they serve to confuse men into thinking that their problems are > prostatocentric. This is interesting. You use the term "prostatocentric" implying that CPPS is not from the prostate. You link ... http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/pelvicmyoneuropathy.html also talks about muscles and nerves but generally leaves out the prostate. But the meaning of the word Prostatitis is inflamation of the prostate. And there are men who have prostatitis, that is, an infection/inflamation of the prostate. Maybe you ought to start a non-prostatocentric newsgroup. > This is interesting. You use the term "prostatocentric" implying that CPPS > is not from the prostate. You link ... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have prostatitis, that is, an infection/inflamation of the prostate. Maybe > you ought to start a non-prostatocentric newsgroup. You obviously did not understand the definition of pelvic myoneuropathy. It *does* involve inflammation of the prostate and/or the bladder and/or the urethra and/or the testicles etc. Oh, and by the way, I *have* started a non-prostatocentric newsgroup: http://www.chronicpelvicpain.us "NC" wrote.. > This is interesting. You use the term "prostatocentric" implying that CPPS > is not from the prostate. You link ... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have prostatitis, that is, an infection/inflamation of the prostate. Maybe > you ought to start a non-prostatocentric newsgroup. You make a good point, and so does the c.p. com webmaster. Traditionally prostatitis has been defined as inflammation of the prostate. If you have signs of inflammation in your prostatic secretions, then it's simple......you have prostatitis, ( note the term " itis " ). I don't think that this description should change. So, NC has got that right. Now, what about other symptoms in and around the pelvic area that don't include the prostate? This is where our c.p.com webmaster, ( and his superb use of the English language ), is accurate. He continues to eloquently point out, ( for everyones benefit and the advancement of our condition ), that it's the muscles and nerves in an around the pelvic area that are not firing on all cylinders. Clearly he is right in this regard. I'm still a proponent of having these sub-class names, ( i.e. prostatitis, intersitial cystitis, epididymitis, orchitis, etc. ), but one parent name like chronic pelvic pain syndrome or maybe even pelvicmyoneuropathy to describe the overall condition. The parent name is EXtremely important because it adds some much needed clarification and avoids ambiguous behaviour by the average Joe physician or aquantance that will brush you off and tell you the pain is all in your head. We have to stick with a solid descrption so that over time patients and physicians alike will have a clear understanding of how to properly identify and treat us. The last few years have been pretty good as I am seeing that more & more doctors are familar with the term CPPS. Doo doo doo.....seeya :-) |
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