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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostatitis / January 2004One question...
...if the "Tucson techniques" worked so well for you, why does your wife need to perform them still? Some "cure", huh? Nice try, though. Polecheck doesn't want everybody to know that massages are usually beneficial and, most of all, quite easy to do once you find a device or partner to do them. The "bug" stuff is the "bait" - - everybody wants to believe their prostatitis is caused by some "bug" that can totally be eradicated. Anyway, that sure doesn't sound like the case for you, sir. > ...if the "Tucson techniques" worked so well for you, why does your > wife need to perform them still? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Anyway, that sure doesn't sound like the case for you, sir. Good morning. The Tucson clinic provides effective treatment for this problem. A total of three pathogens were cultured using the detailed testing techniques Tucson has to offer. Patients at the Tucson clinic will receive the most detailed lab workup they have ever received for this affliction. I think as time goes on, bacteria will be identified as the culprit for most if not all sufferers. Remember, if you go to a uro today with this problem, you will receive Cipro or like ABX. And "yes" I think time could help. Your own immune system may be keeping the infection, symptoms down or eradicated completly. In time, most of our immune systems can beat most infections, in time.... > Good morning. The Tucson clinic provides effective treatment for this > problem. A total of three pathogens were cultured using the detailed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > keeping the infection, symptoms down or eradicated completly. In > time, most of our immune systems can beat most infections, in time.... OK, I'll chime in. 1) It's great that you are better. I don't doubt for 1 minute that you and many others have gotten better after prostate massage, with or without antibiotics. 2) Does the Tucson clinic provide effective treatment for this problem? If you are someone with prostatitis who will get better with antibiotics and prostate massage, then yes they will. What proportion of prostatitis patients get better with this treatment? From the limited published data, anywhere from 15-30% depending upon the denominator ie. who gets offered the treatment. If anyone with prostatitis like symptoms and any bacteria in their prostatic fluid gets offered the treatment, I suspect the number is 15% or less. Remember that two thirds of healthy men with no symptoms have positive culutures for bacteria that localize to the prostate according to the NIH study. If there are features that help to narrow down who is more likely to benefit from this therapy, then the response rate will go up. From what I can tell from websites and posts, this is the ONLY treatment offered at the Tucson clinic, so I suspect their true response rate is at the low end. Of course, we have no idea because they have never done a proper study and have never published their clinical outcomes despite years of treating patients and research funding from the prostatitis foundation. 3) "Patients at the Tucson clinic > will receive the most detailed lab workup they have ever received for > this affliction. I think as time goes on, bacteria will be identified > as the culprit for most if not all sufferers." What value are these detailed lab tests if they don't change therapy and they don't affect outcome? Every single published study in the past few years adds further evidence that bacterial infection, while possibly the instigating factor, is not the cause of chronic symptoms in CPPS. You can do the most sophisticated molecular DNA fingerprinting of the prostatic bacteria possible, but if they are not the cause, then antibiotics are not the cure. Again, since this clinic won't publish meaningful data, their claims can't be independently evaluated. For my money, I would seek treatment somewhere that offered multiple treatment modalities (including antibiotics or prostatic massage as options), not a one trick pony that relies on outdated theories. >OK, I'll chime in. I wouldn't count on Polacheck or "Cameron" to respond to your post. You bring up too many good points in it. > >OK, I'll chime in. > > I wouldn't count on Polacheck or "Cameron" to respond to your post. You bring > up too many good points in it. Mr Pubmed did indeed bring up some good points but he did not say that Massage does not work for some, just the opposite. And that is the point. It may be a small fraction of the sufferers posting here but if it is the only thing that works for them, why trash the idea? Q did absolutely nothing for me but I wouldn't trash the idea of using it (Although some posters here feel that need). Why can't we all recognize that different treatments work for different people. Intelligent people should be able to decide for themselves whether or not they want to persue a particular therapy. > Mr Pubmed did indeed bring up some good points but he did not say that > Massage does not work for some, just the opposite. And that is the point. It [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > people. Intelligent people should be able to decide for themselves whether > or not they want to persue a particular therapy. There is a vast gulf between acknowledging that intra-rectal massage, which inter alia targets deep pelvic muscles (push hard on the prostate and you are, in effect, massaging the deepest pelvic muscles) is beneficial for many patients, and promoting a "clinic" in which such massage is mixed with a witch's brew of antibiotics, administered on the basis of no scientific evidence whatsoever. In fact, the Tucson Clinic flies in the face of all the latest scientific studies that have found microbes to be an insignificant ongoing aspect of chronic pelvic pain (aka chronic prostatitis). You and "Cameron" and "jrh" (one or all of whom are Polacheck himself), simply cannot see the lack of logic in your arguments. I leave it up to others to decide if this blindness to logic is motivated by ignorance or commerce, or both. Oh, and by the way, whoever keeps sending me viruses in the email, please don't waste your time. I have filters that delete them on the server before they are delivered to my machine. Funny how every time I get involved in these arguments about Polacheck I get attacked by virus-sending sociopaths, isn't it? > > Mr Pubmed did indeed bring up some good points but he did not say that > > Massage does not work for some, just the opposite. And that is the point. It [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > get involved in these arguments about Polacheck I get attacked by > virus-sending sociopaths, isn't it? Uro's all over the world are then treating people wrongly in the face of the latest and greatest scientific knowledge. Uro's all over the world are prescribing ABX for this affliction. I am really not Polacheck. Its tough to give out my phone number as I am a former Police Officer of 10 yrs. I really dont want people I have put away calling me at work or home. If you can think of another way, I will surely prove that I am Patrick Krause of Glendale AZ. Lets see.... I ask this politely, how do we settlt that once an for all. Can you give me your number and I will call you? You will hear a 40 yr old male on the phone. I went to high school at Apollo High in Glendale AZ located at 47th and Northern Ave. Any alum out there? Class of 1981. Then went into the Marines from 1981 to 1985. Stationed at Marine Barracks Yokosuka Japan. > Uro's all over the world are then treating people wrongly in the face > of the latest and greatest scientific knowledge. Considering that many have not even heard of the recent research, yes, you are correct. Shock, horror! Here's your opportunity to go to your uro and sneer when he gives you another course of antibiotics. Doctors are human too. They are not infallible. > Uro's all over the world are prescribing ABX for this affliction. Incorrectly, as we all (should) know by now. >> Uro's all over the world are then treating people wrongly in the face >> of the latest and greatest scientific knowledge. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Incorrectly, as we all (should) know by now. Explain why ABX usually cures the first occurance of CP, Why CP returns, and why, in most cases, it no longer responds. Your false accusations don't bother me, but others may take offence, and respond with legal action. take care. jrh > Explain why ABX usually cures the first occurance of CP, > Why CP returns, and why, in most cases, it no longer responds. Firstly, abx do "not" usually abort attacks of pelvic pain. When they sometimes do, the pain returns because it was never cured (duh!) You ask why symptoms no longer respond to anti-inflammatory medications like abx (in the susceptible) after a while. There are many instances in medicine of the body requiring higher and higher doses of a medication to get the same response. Give those men who respond to abx huge doses of the drugs, and voila!, they will become responders again (do not try this at home, readers). > Your false accusations don't bother me, but others may take > offence, and respond with legal action. John, I'm terrified. Not. Enjoy the stars in Tucson's night sky. > > Explain why ABX usually cures the first occurance of CP, > > Why CP returns, and why, in most cases, it no longer responds. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > this at home, readers). > >> Great info webmaster. This is the kinda disagreement that is healthy to help others. Do we have any info from patients who have tried the other methods? Q, pelvic muscle therapy and like? > > > Explain why ABX usually cures the first occurance of CP, > > > Why CP returns, and why, in most cases, it no longer responds. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > this at home, readers). > > >> Good morning. Had MLK off (yesterday). Hope all had a good weekend. I understand from the literature that ABX's can have an antinflamatory effect. But wouldnt drugs meant to reduce inflamation work also? I had been on all the powerful ones, Celebrex, Vioxx, Ibuprofen and of course muscle relaxers. Nothing worked. As soon as I received the massages along with ABX, the pain was gone. Its tough to believe that the minor antinflamatory effect that ABX's have would be better then those drugs meant for inflamation. Not arguing, just rationalizing. >I understand from the literature that ABX's can have an antinflamatory >effect. But wouldnt drugs meant to reduce inflamation work also? I >had been on all the powerful ones, Celebrex, Vioxx, Ibuprofen and of >course muscle relaxers. Nothing worked. This question has been asked and answered hundreds of times in this newsgroup. Do a google search for your answer or educate yourself by reading the cp.com website: http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/abx.html > I understand from the literature that ABX's can have an antinflamatory > effect. But wouldnt drugs meant to reduce inflamation work also? I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the minor antinflamatory effect that ABX's have would be better then > those drugs meant for inflamation. Not arguing, just rationalizing. Abx and anti-inflammatories have different effects. See http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/abx.html I suggest to you that had you taken the abx-free Stanford Protocol, you would have had as good or better results. >Explain why ABX usually cures the first occurance of CP There's that bleepin' word "cures" again. Abx do not cure CPPS. If they did, this newsgroup would not exist. >> Explain why ABX usually cures the first occurance of CP > There's that bleepin' word "cures" again. Abx do not cure CPPS. If they did, > this newsgroup would not exist. The first time I went to the Dr. with symptoms I was diagnosed to have prostatitis and prescribed ABX, The symptoms were completely eradicated. It was a year later when the same symptoms returned. 1. What caused the first symptoms? 1. Why did they go away after taking ABX? 2. If ABX was not the cause of remission what was? 3. Did the second occurance have a different cause, and if so what? jrh >The symptoms were completely eradicated. > >It was a year later when the same symptoms returned. So you went into remission, but you were not cured. > >The symptoms were completely eradicated. > > > >It was a year later when the same symptoms returned. > > So you went into remission, but you were not cured. Or, was cured and reinfected. No one knows for sure. > > >The symptoms were completely eradicated. > > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Or, was cured and reinfected. No one knows for sure. Maybe I don't know for sure but after 30 years with this stuff, I seriously doubt that I am getting reinfected. I believe I beat the bug back into a period of remission. It will re-emerge sometime in the future. >Or, was cured and reinfected. No one knows for sure. Of course, since all the recent scientific research suggests that CPPS is not caused by an active infection, this is extremely unlikely. be careful how you use the term scientific research. There are some studies that show some things and some that show others. If there were overwhelming research showing any one thing - we wouldn't have this newgroup as we would have answers instead of questions. > >Or, was cured and reinfected. No one knows for sure. > > Of course, since all the recent scientific research suggests that CPPS is not > caused by an active infection, this is extremely unlikely. > >Or, was cured and reinfected. No one knows for sure. > > Of course, since all the recent scientific research suggests that CPPS is not > caused by an active infection, this is extremely unlikely. CPPS or Category III prostatitis is classified as non-bacterial and what you say is true for CPPS. But Category I (Acute Bacterial Prostatitis) and Category II (Chronic Bacterial Prostatitis) are caused by infections. This is not my opinion, it is the recognized classifications of Prostatitis. Read Dr. J. Curtis Nickel's excellent book, "The Prostatitis Manual". > > >Or, was cured and reinfected. No one knows for sure. > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > This is not my opinion, it is the recognized classifications of Prostatitis. > Read Dr. J. Curtis Nickel's excellent book, "The Prostatitis Manual". Good morning "RB." Great points and yes I have read the book. Like you said, very good book and I'm glad we have Docs like Mr. Nickel working hard on this problem. Counter argument/discussion - The latest scientific research is just that, research. I'm not convinced that just because the NIH or whoever finally has "classified" the illness, those classifications work. Govt boards are great at process and procedure, it makes the public/patients feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that we finally have "classifications." Nothing conclusive has been determined, hence this board and all the questions. Heck, Doctors all over the world know about these "classifications" yet they still prescribe ABX without proof of infection (based on their testing). As you know some of the "latest research" has determined that there are just as many bacteria (bad ones) in men without symptoms. In my mind this latest research doesnt explain anything. We know that a percentage of the population are carriers of viruses (Hepatitis for sure) and bacterieum without symptoms (this is old news). There could be one person with staph without symptoms and another with the same strain of staph with massive symptoms, this is known. So to say, that prostatitis cant be bacterial because the latest research shows that there are equal men with bacteria showing no symptoms, I think is inaccurate (my humble opinon). Some men are "carriers" while some men's immune systems will fight back causing symptoms. Looking forward to your counter discussion. I'm sure we are helping readers of this board with this type of discussion. Hey - have we finally decided that I am not DR P? > > > >Or, was cured and reinfected. No one knows for sure. > > > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Hey - have we finally decided that I am not DR P? It wasn't the NIH or a bunch of Gov't bureaucrats that decided on the new classification system. It was the consensus of a group of Doctors and researchers in the field that came up with the classifications in the late 1990's. The meeting was held at NIH and included such notable doctors as Dan Shoskes and J. Curtis Nickel. They recognized that the old classifications did not work. Unfortunately, most Uro's still don't know what to do and simply prescribe ABX. I believe that a big problem with this group is that what works for CPPS and what works for CBP are different therapies but both describe their problem as chronic prostatitis. So everyone ends up arguing that such and such a therapy is a bunch of crap when they should be open to the idea that different therapies work for different people. > > "RB" <rboyd100@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:<okBPb.2439$jc4.1903098@news2.news.adelphia.net>... [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > therapy is a bunch of crap when they should be open to the idea that > different therapies work for different people. Fair enough. However, it has been adapted by the NIH thus getting them out of a jam being able to provide "classifications." I'm sure that patients all over the world feel better that there is now a "classification" system that other uros do not use, dont know about or dont believe in. Has the "classification" system been effective? The question still remains does abacterial prostatitis really exist? I do agree that everyone is calling our pain "prostatitis", and thats a problem. I believe there are probably several other conditions that uro's and other docs are calling prostatitis. Good stuff! > Fair enough. However, it has been adapted by the NIH thus getting > them out of a jam being able to provide "classifications." I'm sure > that patients all over the world feel better that there is now a > "classification" system that other uros do not use, dont know about or > dont believe in. Has the "classification" system been effective? The > question still remains does abacterial prostatitis really exist? Oh please! For a more informed debate on this subject, readers are advised to visit: http://www.chronicpelvicpain.us/ http://www.chronicprostatitis.com > I have filters that delete them ( viruses ), on the > server before they are delivered to my machine. Hey guys, Some good tools to deal with hotmail viruses: ( all freeware ) Mailwasher - older versions have hotmail and pop3. HotPop - hotmail and pop3. ( check out - some say port 80 phone's home ) PopTray - hotmail and pop3 ( get the plugins ) Some others work well too, you'll just have to find them. Search the web for some older versions of mailwasher but be sure the site your downloading from is on the up n' up. Here's a good place to start http://www.nonags.com/ Peace. > > Good morning. The Tucson clinic provides effective treatment for this > > problem. A total of three pathogens were cultured using the detailed [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > treatment modalities (including antibiotics or prostatic massage as > options), not a one trick pony that relies on outdated theories. Thanks for the the post Mr. Pubmed. For once here is serious conversation regarding the problems. I have read most of these pubs and I believe you are correct. I may have been the small percentage that was assisted by the Tucson model. You wont get an argument out of me on that. Remember, I went there after trying everything else, from nerve blocks to Q. Tucson did the trick for me. When I receive calls or e-mails from posters on this website, I do tell them to exhaust all models. Tucson is just one model of many. In my experience, a very effective model. Thanks for bringing up the good data. <clip> >> For my money, I would seek treatment somewhere that offered multiple >> treatment modalities (including antibiotics or prostatic massage as >> options), not a one trick pony that relies on outdated theories. > Thanks for the the post Mr. Pubmed. For once here is serious > conversation regarding the problems. I have read most of these pubs [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > experience, a very effective model. Thanks for bringing up the good > data. I no longer have any CP symptoms, but some CPPS still remains. Extended periods of sitting continue to cause a burning sensation, but it does not originate from the prostate or rectal region. The worst case WBC in EPS samples about two years ago were 1000 to 10,000 times higher than they are now. I observed the reduction over a period of several months of prostate massage, and no antibiotics. I believe my original CP was caused by an abscessed anorectal gland. The infection was killed by the antibiotic, leaving a dry abscess/fistula, that allowed one the fungi normally present in the intestional tract to invade the space between the sphincter muscle and the tail bone. Over time this led to a variety of problems systemic to the entire region, including the prostate. jrh Why use the word "cure"? This is something most of us have to live with and rather than looking for a cure, we look for something that makes it easier to live with. The "Tuscon Techniques" (as you call them) ie. massage and ABX, have made it much easier for me to live with. And I can live with that. Quercetin, broccolli juice, chinese herbs or whatever else it is that makes it easier for you, have at it. > ...if the "Tucson techniques" worked so well for you, why does your > wife need to perform them still? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Anyway, that sure doesn't sound like the case for you, sir. > Why use the word "cure"? This is something most of us have to live with and > rather than looking for a cure, we look for something that makes it easier > to live with. The "Tuscon Techniques" (as you call them) ie. massage and > ABX, have made it much easier for me to live with. And I can live with that. > Quercetin, broccolli juice, chinese herbs or whatever else it is that makes > it easier for you, have at it. Very well put. There are hundreds of medical conditions where you would see a specialist for "maintenance" that either relieves the pain or substantially reduces it. For some with this affliction that should also be your goal. Unfortunately, some are saying DR. P promises a cure on his website. He does not. You will see that he states his clinic is dedicating to the treatment and cure of by non-surgical means. There are hundreds of medical specialties that are dedicated to the cure and treatment of their cause, to me this means they are still working toward that goal. In fact, during my initial consultation with him, he told me I probably wouldnt be cured with the "Short treatment program." But, he did tell me that his techniques would alleivate most of the pain, and they did. I didnt have to wait two years for my pain to subside, my pain subsided after 3 or 4 treatments (2 weeks) at the Tucson Clinic. Fact. > Unfortunately, some are saying DR. P > promises a cure on his website. He does not. Cameron (also named Patrick Krause), I find your 2+ year long support of Dr Polacheck in this newsgroup to be highly suspicious. You stated, after seeing Polacheck in 2001: "Walked into his clinic unable to walk with pain, and within two weeks (10 treatments) had a 50 % reduction in symptoms. To this day, Prostatitis pain is just a memory." I cannot imagine a man in whom pelvic pain was "just a memory" making regular, detailed and lengthy posts to this newsgroup in support of a particular clinic (as you have done since mid-2001) and to spread rumors about another doctor (Dr Shoskes, who you implied was unable to help men with pelvic pain). So, who are you? If your email address is honest (big question mark over this), you must be: Krause, Patrick 6427 E Grandview Dr, Scottsdale, AZ 85254-1441 (480)314-7673 If that is indeed who you are, please stand up and admit it. You will then receive a few phone calls to discuss your experiences and help us ascertain your credentials. Thank you. Until such time as your honesty is established, your protestations about Dr Polacheck and his clinic are best answered by another poster: ====================================== From: Patrick Krause Helper (amazed@krauses.dumbness) Subject: Re: Polacheck's Anal Angle Newsgroups: sci.med.prostate.prostatitis Date: 2003-01-02 15:23:12 PST > Please show me where on Dr P's website he promises a cure? The front > page states he is "dedicated to finding a cure." This by no means state > they are promising cures. From Polecat's FAQ page ( http://www.prostate-usa.com/polfaq.html ): "The most usual length of treatment for the prostatitis patients in Manila was ten sessions....[then] a "Test-of-Cure" [test is given to confirm the "cure"] Here Polacheck tells you that your final test is to confirm your cure ("test-of-cure"). The obvious implication is that you can *expect* to be cured in the normal course of events. "... most of the many thousands of patients seen [by] Dr. A. E. Feliciano were successfully cured after ten appointments.... the Manila Protocol appears to be working exactly the same in Tucson as it does in Manila." UNLESS YOU ARE A MORON, MR KRAUSE, THE ABOVE TEXT SHOWS YOU THAT "LE POLECAT" IS PROMISING A CURE!! > > Unfortunately, some are saying DR. P > > promises a cure on his website. He does not. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Until such time as your honesty is established, your protestations about > Dr Polacheck and his clinic are best answered by another poster: Good afternoon webmaster. Not sure who the Patrick Krause in Scottsdale AZ is, but if you look at my e-mail address I am on the other side of town in Glendale AZ. Not sure how honest you would like me to be. I am Patrick Krause and work in Glendale AZ. What is the mystery? I find it alarming that a webmaster is willing to put someones personal info on the website though. But, thats not mine. I cant afford to live in Scottsdale, very expensive. Again, I've posted my real e-mail address and you have my real name. I've even spoken to some of your posters on the phone about the Tucson clinic. The fact still remains, 3 years ago, ready to go on disability, within 10 treatments life changed for the better. Why the angle to discredit someones experience? You shouldnt fear the Tucson clinic. > Good afternoon webmaster. Not sure who the Patrick Krause in > Scottsdale AZ is, but if you look at my e-mail address I am on the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > treatments life changed for the better. Why the angle to discredit > someones experience? You shouldnt fear the Tucson clinic. The only Krauses listed in Glendale, AZ are: Krause, Dawn (623)486-1065 Krause, Eric (623)825-7902 Krause, Frances (602)938-8899 Krause, Gerrilynne (623)486-2541 Krause, Marcia E (623)878-4770 Krause, Richard (623)561-6174 Krause, Rosemarie (623)435-5556 Krause, Sharon (623)825-7902 Krause, Steven (623)931-0305 (all easily obtained at http://www.switchboard.com/ ) NO! Do not be surprised that personal details are listed on the internet, Mr Krause (if that is who you really are). Anyone who routinely and persistently posts here trying to shepherd (or lure) men to a particular clinic will be subjected to the utmost scrutiny. I see you have STILL not divulged your personal details to us. What are you afraid of? Why don't you email me your telephone number and we'll have a little chat, OK? As for fearing the Tucson clinic, I let others tell their experiences: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=an_443366743 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=an_291858715 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=an_393412566 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=an_291866660 Webmaster please stop the harrassment. There is more than enough blame to go around when it comes to the failure of the medical establishment to determine the true cause, and find a tretement for CP-CPPS. Massage works. My CP symptoms were eliminated more than two years ago and they have not returned. jrh >> Good afternoon webmaster. Not sure who the Patrick Krause in >> Scottsdale AZ is, but if you look at my e-mail address I am on the [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=an_393412566 >http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=an_291866660 > Webmaster please stop the harrassment. The point has been made, he might be a fake, but wouldn't it be better to respond to the points being made instead of attacking and posting the phone numbers of people, most of which must have nothing to do with this at all! > There is more than enough blame to go around when it comes to > the failure of the medical establishment to determine the true > cause, and find a tretement for CP-CPPS. Massage works. My > CP symptoms were eliminated more than two years ago and they have > not returned. > jrh >>> Good afternoon webmaster. Not sure who the Patrick Krause in >>> Scottsdale AZ is, but if you look at my e-mail address I am on the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>> treatments life changed for the better. Why the angle to discredit >>> someones experience? You shouldnt fear the Tucson clinic. >> The only Krauses listed in Glendale, AZ are: numbers clipped >> (all easily obtained at http://www.switchboard.com/ ) >> NO! Do not be surprised that personal details are listed on the >> internet, Mr Krause (if that is who you really are). Anyone who >> routinely and persistently posts here trying to shepherd (or lure) men >> to a particular clinic will be subjected to the utmost scrutiny. >> I see you have STILL not divulged your personal details to us. What are >> you afraid of? Why don't you email me your telephone number and we'll >> have a little chat, OK? >> As for fearing the Tucson clinic, I let others tell their experiences: clip > Webmaster please stop the harrassment. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > jrh So, now it is all clear. "jrh", whom we all know is Polacheck (who has a Cox account), now chimes in with the same phrases and tone as "Krause". John, aren't you ashamed of this unprofessional behavior? Or are you simply __desperate__ for paying clients at your Tucson business? Readers, for modereated, non-commercial chat on this topic, go to: http://www.chronicpelvicpain.us/ http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/ > > Webmaster please stop the harrassment. > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > John, aren't you ashamed of this unprofessional behavior? Or are you > simply __desperate__ for paying clients at your Tucson business? I don't beleive the tone in this thread is in any way productive to treating this disabling condition. Somethings work for some people. Somethings are scams. Some clinics are legit. Some are more shady. Can't we just leave it at that- after all - as we all know - there is no generally accepted treatment by established medical societeis for our problem. So - lets try to be civil and productive here - ok? > ...if the "Tucson techniques" worked so well for you, why does your > wife need to perform them still? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Anyway, that sure doesn't sound like the case for you, sir. >Somethings are scams. >Some clinics are legit. >Some are more shady. > >Can't we just leave it at that No, we can't. As long as there are people here trying to lure people to shady clinics, there will be people challenging them. > >Somethings are scams. > >Some clinics are legit. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > No, we can't. As long as there are people here trying to lure people to shady > clinics, there will be people challenging them. Good morning Mast Cells. Not trying to lure anyone to any clinic. But I thinks its wise we get back to the point. Massage therapy and abx worked for me. The detailed lab work performed by the Tucson Clinic showed a very high WBC count with several pathogens. Over the course of the massages, the WBC count reduced to almost zero. I think this is pretty effective treatment. Not to mention the main subsided immensley. What didnt work for me throughout the process was celebrex, tramadol and cipro. Zithromax seemed to be the drug that cleared things up. For the sake of the other readers, it would be interesting to hear of other models that worked for other people. And lets stop the paranoia of who is who. But, if you would like to meet in person one day, I eat lunch at Haus Murphy's which is a german rest located on the coner of 58th drive and Glendale Ave in Glendale AZ. Its just a few blocks from where I work. > >Somethings are scams. > >Some clinics are legit. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > No, we can't. As long as there are people here trying to lure people to shady > clinics, there will be people challenging them. -------------- How can we determine which clinics are shady or not when even doctors studying CPPS disagree about the cause and the treatment??? > > >Somethings are scams. > > >Some clinics are legit. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > How can we determine which clinics are shady or not when even doctors > studying CPPS disagree about the cause and the treatment??? I think most of the clinics we are talking about are pretty much all in good standing. Not sure what you have access to, but in AZ we have a website we can go to and check the status of Doctors Lic. Of course I checked Dr. P's credentials before I took the two hour drive to Tucson. Dr. P has no complaints on his MD license and is in good standing with the state. I guess thats a start. It doesnt guarentee the treatment will work, but its a start. .......la la la la |
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