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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / October 2006

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Walsh vs Time

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Phil - 22 Oct 2006 04:12 GMT
I have been recently diagnosed with PC.  I am 56 and otherwise in
excellent health.  Gleason is 6 (3+3), PSA is 2.8, the biopsy of 12
cores shows the right side with 60% to 70% cancer in the apex and mid,
and 20 to 30% in the base.  No cancer was found on the left side.  The
stage is T2a. The Partin tables show my profile has a probability of 40
to 50% penetration of the prostate.

The biopsy was done on Sept 8 and the consultation with my doctor on
Oct 2.  I have made the decision to have the RP which I hope to be
nerve sparing. The doctor that performed the biopsy only does a couple
of the RP surgeries per month, so I made an appointment with Dr Walsh
at Hopkins.  My appointment with Dr Walsh is Nov 3 (3 weeks from now)
and although I meet his profile as far as his schedulers are concerned,
there is no assurance he will take my case or not pass me off to one of
his associates.  Two other concerns I have is that if everything goes
right, I will not be able to have the surgery until mid December or
early Jan, which is 2 to 3 months from now.  Second, I am concerned
about how much of the surgery is done by Walsh rather than one of his
residents, lets face it, they have to learn somewhere and this is a
teaching hospital.  I also have concerns about the age of Walsh (70+)
and if he has continued to improve or even maintain his technique,
hence the need for residence to assist if not to learn.  He was a great
doctor, but has time passed him by as it does for all great ones as
younger doctors take his pioneering work to the next levels with the
lasted techniques.

I have also consulted a local uro where I live in suburban Washington
DC.  This doctor has performed about 1500 RPs and has a good
reputation.  So my quandary is do I go for the top doctor and hospital,
i.e. Walsh and Hopkins, or get this thing out of me ASAP in about 2
weeks with a local doctor of good stature.  I am concerned that the
right side nerve will be challenging to spare with the possible
penetration.  Walsh is the recognized expert at nerve sparing RPs.

I am concerned that by waiting for Walsh I may have to wait for another
2 to 3 months or even be referred to a 3rd or 4th doctor further
extending the surgery which leaves this cancer in my body to further
proliferate, especially if it has penetrated.  My primary question to
anyone who may care to opine on this is how time sensitive is my
decision in light of my high volume of cancer in the right side samples
and the 40 to 50% possibility of penetration according to the Partin
Tables.

I would truly appreciate any thoughts.

Phil
Leonard Evens - 22 Oct 2006 15:37 GMT
> I have been recently diagnosed with PC.  I am 56 and otherwise in
> excellent health.  Gleason is 6 (3+3), PSA is 2.8, the biopsy of 12
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
> I would truly appreciate any thoughts.

It probably won't make a lot of difference if you wait several months.
 But there are other highly skilled surgeons with results comparable to
Walsh's.   What you need to know about a surgeon is first of all how
many such surgeries he does a year, and secondly what sorts of results
he gets for cases like yours.   I doubt if the surgeon's age is too
relevant.

I have no idea how much Walsh lets residents do, but I suspect he will
tell you in advance and be honest about it.  You should ask any surgeon
about that.  I did, and my surgeon insisted he did the surgery, not his
resident, and as best I can tell from things both he and his resident
said afterwards, he told me the truth.

Even if your cancer is not organ confined, it is pretty likely it will
be specimen confined, meaning that the surgeon will probably be able to
get all of it.  But it is possible he may need to remove more tissue
than otherwise would be the case.  There appears to be no way to know
about that before getting in there and looking.   Some surgeons, working
together with a plastic surgeon, will transplant a nerve from elsewhere
in the body, in an attempt to improve erectile function.   Peter
Scardino describes that procedure in his book.

I had a T1c, PSA 4.2, Gleason 7=3+4 case at age 67.  My health insurance
probably wouldn't have paid for me to go to Baltimore, so I didn't
really seriously consider it.  But looking at the figures, I thought
that in my case I would perhaps have a 10 percent advantage in avoiding
impotence by having Walsh do it.   Your age and the nature of your case
will often be more important than the particular surgeon provided the
surgeon is highly skilled.  My well regarded local surgeon did a pretty
good job, and I'm satisfied.

> Phil
Johnhamcoex - 22 Oct 2006 19:48 GMT
> I have been recently diagnosed with PC.  I am 56 and otherwise in
> excellent health.  Gleason is 6 (3+3), PSA is 2.8, the biopsy of 12
> cores shows the right side with 60% to 70% cancer in the apex and mid,
> and 20 to 30% in the base.  No cancer was found on the left side.  The
> stage is T2a. The Partin tables show my profile has a probability of 40
> to 50% penetration of the prostate.

Phil,

I'm sorry to hear about your diagnosis. I was diagnosted this summer,
PSA 13.8, GS 3+4 and T1c at 57. I have similar probabilities to yours.
I visited Dr. Mani Menon at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit. He has done
over 1600 robotic protatectomies, more than anyone in the world. He was
not optimistic about sparing my nerves.

I then went to see Dr. Vip Patel at Ohio State. He is number two (over
1300) in robotic surgeries. He was also not optimistic about the
nerves. I was totally ruling out radiation, but I communicated with
several who had it done and I started to reconsider. I then read the
story of Dr. Charles Myers. You can read it at
http://www.prostateforum.com/sample.htm. That convinced me that I would
go with radiation. With a substantial probability of extra-capsular
penetration and I really want to keep my nerves, radiation seems the
only way.

You can see a more detailed discussion at http://tinyurl.com/ydd79l.

I'm having my seeds implanted tomorrow, Monday, by Hamilton Williams.
He did over 2300 seeding while working at Radiotherapy Clinics of
Georgia, but is now starting his own practice. I feel like I've got the
best of both worlds. A man with perhaps more seeding experience than
anyone in the world, and yet, with a new practice, he's not very busy
and I'm getting a lot of attention.

I'll let you know later how it goes.

Good luck with your decision.

John
 
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