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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / October 2006

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Pomegrantes treatment prostate cancer

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onerichi@earthlink.net - 24 Sep 2006 16:44 GMT
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/10/051002120002.htm
Can Pomegranates Prevent Prostate Cancer? A New Study Offers Promise
MADISON - The juice of the pomegranate, say researchers at Universityof
Wisconsin Medical School, shows major promise to combat prostatecancer - the
most common invasive cancer and the second-leading causeof cancer death in
American men....

They found a"dose-dependent" effect - in other words, the higher the dose of
pomegranate extract the cells received, the more cells died.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/07/060702084515.htm
Pomegranate Juice Helps Keep PSA Levels Stable In Men With Prostate Cancer
Drinking an eight ounce glass of pomegranate juice daily increased by nearly
four times the period during which PSA levels in men treated for prostate
cancer remained stable, a three-year UCLA study has found.

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/124/115697

Pomegranate Slows Prostate Cancer

July 5, 2006 -- A glass of pomegranate juice a day may keep prostate
cancerprostate cancer recurrence away, UCLA researchers report.
philget - 04 Oct 2006 14:03 GMT
Re pomegranate juice:  I have a unique perspective on pomegranate juice
and prostate cancer.  I started drinking 8 oz a day 3 years ago, for my
heart, after cardiac bypass surgery.  6 months ago my PSA went up to
2.9, just enough to call for a biopsy.  I had a fairly large tumor,
much larger than one would have thought given my PSA.  They think it
may have gotten outside the capsule.  I'm still drinking the
pomegranate juice - but I think we need to consider the possibility
that lowering PSA and inhibiting tumor growth may not go together.  I
can't prove anything, but whatever kept my PSA low did not do me any
favors.
ron - 04 Oct 2006 15:57 GMT
philget wrote...snip...
> 6 months ago my PSA went up to
> 2.9, just enough to call for a biopsy.  I had a fairly large tumor,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> can't prove anything, but whatever kept my PSA low did not do me any
> favors.

Absolutely, tumor volume is not the only factor that determines PSA
levels.  There are several steps involved in the production of PSA.
Consumption of materials that affect any of these steps (for example
causing a protein or enzyme involved in PSA production to be over /
under expressed) or that affect the permeability of organs could lead
to an increase or decrease in PSA levels measured in the blood stream.
This has been demonstrated in the literature.

BTW, it is also well documented that higher grade tumors produce less
PSA, so low PSA levels do not always insure a healthy prostate...Best
wishes and good health, ron
pc55 - 05 Oct 2006 16:43 GMT
> ... I think we need to consider the possibility that lowering PSA and inhibiting tumor
> growth may not go together.

The Gleason Score recognizes that PC cell progression is not
synchronized.  There is some degree of variation in the loss of
cellular differentiation.  It is possible that pomegranate juice [PJ]
is very effective below a certain Gleason Number (not Score!), say 4,
but less effective for higher numbers.  If someone has a Gleason Score
of 3+4, PJ might wipe out the predominant 3 cells, but only some of the
4's.  The PSA would go down, as a result of the reduction in tumor
mass, but the overall effect would be to select for the higher grade
cancer.

A similar effect was found in the 5alpha-reductase inhibitor study.
The level of diagnosed PC was much lower than in controls, but there
was a greater degree of advanced cancer in the treated group.

One can argue that a PJ regimen is beneficial to the majority, but
since it can lower PSA, a new baseline reading should be taken after PJ
has had a chance to work.  Any subsequent PSA increase should be viewed
with suspicion (even if the PSA is very low).

The Pantuck study would suggest that PJ is of benefit even at high
Gleason Numbers.  Anything that increases PSA doubling times must be
good.  With possibly invasive cancer, a multi-pronged defense is called
for & I do not rely on PJ alone.  Incidentally, I prefer a combination
of CardioGranate, EstroGranate & the seed oil, since who needs all that
sugar?
ron - 05 Oct 2006 17:59 GMT
pc55 wrote...snip...
> A similar effect was found in the 5alpha-reductase inhibitor study.
> The level of diagnosed PC was much lower than in controls, but there
> was a greater degree of advanced cancer in the treated group.

Many of the results of the PCPT study are still being debated; further
studies have been initiated.  For example, as you point out, more
high-grade (GS=7-10) tumors were detected in the finasteride arm (6.4%)
as compared to the placebo arm (5.1%).  However, whether this was due
to finasteride administration or various study biases is unclear at
present.  For example, the finasteride arm had smaller prostate volumes
than the placebo arm at the end of the study, however, the same number
of end-of-study biopsy samples were taken from  both study arms.  If
small amounts of high-grade PCa were present in all men, they would be
more likely to be detected in the arm with the smaller prostates
(detection bias)...Best wishes and good health, ron
pc55 - 06 Oct 2006 17:16 GMT
> Many of the results of the PCPT study are still being debated; further
> studies have been initiated.  For example, as you point out, more
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> more likely to be detected in the arm with the smaller prostates
> (detection bias)...Best wishes and good health, ron

Hi Ron,

Yes, I should not have overstated the case, in the absence of a
follow-up study.

The smaller prostate volumes were presumably largely a result of BPH
control, rather than smaller tumors?  So, if PC was unaffected by
Finasteride, they would have found more positive samples in the smaller
prostates?  But the study found less.  And, in the positive samples,
the tendency was slightly towards higher grade.

I still favor the view that Finasteride, by killing off low-Gleason
cells, gave a growth advantage to higher grade cancer.  Another
interpretation is that the higher grade cells may not have increased (&
may even have decreased), but that the Gleason Score simply increased
in the absence of lower-grade cells.

Regardless, it's just an opinion.

Regards, -Patrick
 
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