Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / August 2005
30% say "nothing works"
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werty - 10 Aug 2005 16:44 GMT One of those "30%" Doctors said biopsies will always be positive in males above 50 .
Another bit i read says male deaths ( over 55 and not due to P' cancer ) showed positive biopsies in 50% of those deaths .
I believe that PSA and biopsies are not reliable and should be ignored . I think there maybe some wild methods that may have value like eating 10 grams of carbohydrate a day ( lots of luck staying on that diet ! ) , but basically , there is no silver bullet .
Taking excess zinc is not a good idea , and iron is lethal . There maybe a connection to the adrenal stuff ( adrenalin ,noradrenalin ) , don't get excited etc etc .
In light of this "nothing works " there are people making money from radiation , seed rad' , and other treatments ....they are unethical people . But they can excuse themselves with " We're experimenting to reduce the low survival rate " B.S.
My Dad did the "fasting" but maybe too late as he died very quickly at about age 66 after a life of perfect health .
I nixed GERD in 2 days from fasting ! I'm 61 .
Fasting only works ( the pain of fasting can be worse than the disease ) if you master your own mind . I found i had to convince a part of mine that gave me headaches if i mentioned "fasting" . It also told me my stomach would stick together and there'd be a liter of HCL etc etc . When you stop eating , HCL goes to ZERO ! HCL is needed for meat . I don't eat meat , feel great , ideal body wt , I had to convince my mind that sugar is good . Sucrose is a C12 , broken down to 2 C6's ( Glucose and Fructose + H20 ) . No documentation on harmfull sucrose . You can store glycogen in liver and elsewhere . Takes abit to convert it back to glucose . Next takes lots longer the fats to glucose . So i would syc myself by saying " i need lots of energy today , and the mind would try to burn some fat or whatever to G' . It works ! I would drink lots of OJ and after 3 days i tried slice of white bread , worked good . The starch converted to G' quickly and had energy all day . You need very little nutrition ( i'm 170 lbs , 61 , white male ) I can eat 2 slices of bread a day 4 peanuts , OJ , for long periods .
All this "testing" makes me think about the research done on cancer ( they want to drug the cancer so it can't develope vascularity ( capilaries ) . Do you suppose that old people maybe killing themselves trying to take in the B vitamins ? B is needed for growth . Grow capilaries ! Grow cancer ! Lots of B in meat . But you can make aminos from carbs and the ammonia in the body and colon . I'm muscular , i make proteins from white bread and ammonia ( NH3 ) . This is basic stuff from all college text books , so pls no arguements . 3 to 5 months for B vits , is in my books ( Clinical Chem' ) and i strictly adhere ! I take a B vit' every 6 months ha ha ha C is needed every 16 days ( ascorbic tastes so good why ration it ) .
D is toxic , only to medicate a problem . K2 is not for sale , you'll have to "limp along" on K3 which is needed for bleeding problems .
So what do ya think about nature making it difficult on old people in terms of malabsorption problems of B vits ? I think growth hormones are a death sentence for old people . Your body is trying to tell you that you simply can't metabolize nor adrenerginize like you were 21 !
George Conklin - 10 Aug 2005 21:25 GMT > One of those "30%" Doctors said biopsies will always > be positive in males above 50 . > > Another bit i read says male deaths ( over 55 and not due to P' > cancer ) showed positive biopsies in 50% of those deaths . Well, if current treatments work the the results are going to be found after 10 years because up to now, no results have emerged. Optimists believe that something will show up later. Let us hope they are right, but whatever the effect, it does look like it is kind of small.
Leonard Evens - 11 Aug 2005 02:26 GMT >> One of those "30%" Doctors said biopsies will always >> be positive in males above 50 . [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > believe that something will show up later. Let us hope they are right, but > whatever the effect, it does look like it is kind of small. You are discussing one US study. You are ignoring other data. Let me point out again that if you followed men who smoked for ten years, you would find that smoking didn't have a dramatic effect on the incidence of lung cancer. So it is fruitless to jump to conclusions about what one particular study will show. Also, you ignore the fact that prostate cancer is a complex disease. There is already some evidence that treatment for at least some cases is likely to be beneficial, even if it turns out that overall treatment has only a minimal effect. And so far at least, the evidence for that assertion is not very strong.
george conklin - 12 Aug 2005 01:29 GMT >>> One of those "30%" Doctors said biopsies will always >>> be positive in males above 50 . [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > would find that smoking didn't have a dramatic effect on the incidence of > lung cancer. Wrong answer by far. If you follow people with diagnosed lung cancer for 10 years, you would have zero survived. If you follow men with diagnosed prostate cancer for 10 years and still have not found an effect for treatment, you have found a whole lot.
werty - 13 Aug 2005 15:09 GMT pls explain my 50% and your "certainty"
werty - 13 Aug 2005 15:23 GMT Sorry George , i posted in error ! That was for Leonard ! He wanted my "50%" to be 100% " _________________________
I have a description of ETHICS that may amase many ! I am a Naturalist ( Commies call me a Capitalist , and others call me a $##*&!! As a N' , i believe in Natural selection ( 100% ) . Maybe some cancers as Prostrate cancer were not intended by nature to be curred and thus we eliminate the problem thru better breeding ! Terrible isn't nature !!!! In N' selection , there are no employed Doctors , no "jobs" for white men . So one must make money by "supply and demand" . Build a factory in Nicaragua Labor too expensive here . In this expensive society one must make at least 300,000 a year to EAT ! No gov't , no police , no banks , no border guards ( no one visists this place , too expensive ) . No crime . If you even say one bad word of someone you are exiled by economic methods ( they are all rich too ! ) Genes are perfecting , so doctors/hospitals are not needed . But some very rich do take a hobby , so you will have some one to answer your questions ! This solves the age old problem of the DOCTOR . The Chineese said " Pay til you are sick , then stop paying the doctor . But gene improvement works perfect ! No need to pay a Doctor . No govt , so no doctors license , no FDA , no antibiotics no nitrousamines , ......
werty - 15 Aug 2005 15:11 GMT Distracted ! did not finish ETHICS . It is unethical to have a license and charge money for medical advice / treatment . Now for the definition of ETHICS ! Ethics can not be created by society nor government for it requires a free individual who is of some consequence . Example . In a free mkt capitalistic system , one makes judgments about his felow buyers and sellors . A free mkt is very judgemental /prejudiced for your own good ( you only deal with peope of VERY high repute ) . You don't deal with females nor blacks nor children , for they can't achieve the very high degree of reputation required to "join" the group .
Sounds terrible ! But it is simply free people trying to raise their repute to VERY high levels . One bad word about someone who is actually good ( undeserving of yor bad mouth ) and you just killed any chance of doing profitable business . In this free market system the only people of "value" are the top businessmen . All others are dependent on those top for their food/quarters . Prices are too high for even your young son to buy a house or buy food ! Prices are up for the "competition" from all over the world , the rich all over the world want to live here and they won't allow low priced ANYTHING .
Sounds even worse , frightful ! Actually it is the fastest solution to poverty ,crime , complaints of all types . Crime can't exist because those around you will stop doin business ( your grocer , the owner of the electric co , the owner of the street you live on will phone you and say "leave town while you can still sell your house at 2.7 million " . But the perks are you can make 50 million $$ in one lucky week . There is no gov't nor society to tell you NOT . No taxes , no border guards ( no one jumps the border where bread costs $33 a loaf , gas is $12 gal and lowest house is $US 1.8 million ) Electric averages $500 month . No poor here .
This is natural selection .... No laws , no crime no complaints ( complaints are dealt with severly and w/o raising their voice ) .
Typical : son says " Hey pop why not do a factory in Nicaragua " Dad " maybe you could do it with your money .." Son " I don't have any money !! Father " precisely .... when you learn how to make $US 50 million a year , i'll take very suggestion you make " ! Girlfrnd says " We need more food in the frig " Father " ?Your frig ? G.F. " Yeh my frig !! " Father " Maybe you need to move to the guest house " ... a subtle hint she will be bussing one way back to Panama where he met her on a fishing trip . Like i said NO COMPLAINTS , NO PROBLEMS NO DIVORSE , NO SPOILED KIDS , NO RAISING ONES VOICE !! Natural selection ......
Leonard Evens - 11 Aug 2005 02:20 GMT > One of those "30%" Doctors said biopsies will always > be positive in males above 50 . This is complete nonsense. About one in four biopsies shows evidence of prostate cancer. This is in men who have been referred for a biopsy because of a PSA or digital rectal examination finding. Almost all these men are over 50. Moreover, in at least one study, men without indications had biopsies done and about one in six showed evidence of prostate cancer. So anyone who asserts that a biopsy done on a man over 50 is sure to show cancer is very ill informed.
> Another bit i read says male deaths ( over 55 and not due to P' > cancer ) showed positive biopsies in 50% of those deaths . There are various different autopsy studies, and they do show that as men age, the likelihood of finding microscopic evidence of prostate cancer on autopsy increases. Different studies show different percentages, but they do range between 50 percent and 80 percent or higher, with the higher figures for men over 80. But this very figure contradicts the previous assertion that a biopsy on a man over 50 is certain to show evidence of prostate cancer.
> I believe that PSA and biopsies are not reliable and should be > ignored . You are welcome to your opinion, but why should anyone else pay attention to it?
george conklin - 12 Aug 2005 01:31 GMT >> One of those "30%" Doctors said biopsies will always >> be positive in males above 50 . > > This is complete nonsense. About one in four biopsies shows evidence of > prostate cancer. And that is because a biopsy covers very little of the prostate. As you say, if you look long enough, you will find it.
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