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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / August 2005

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30% say "nothing works"

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werty - 10 Aug 2005 16:44 GMT
 One of those "30%" Doctors said biopsies will always
be positive in males above 50 .

 Another bit i read says male deaths ( over 55 and not due to P'
cancer ) showed positive biopsies in 50% of those deaths .

 I believe that PSA and biopsies are not reliable and should be
ignored .
  I think there maybe some wild methods that may have value like
eating 10 grams of carbohydrate a day ( lots of luck staying on that
diet ! ) , but basically , there is no silver bullet .

Taking excess zinc is not a good idea , and iron is lethal .
There maybe a connection to the adrenal stuff (  adrenalin
,noradrenalin ) , don't get excited  etc etc .

In light of this "nothing works "  there are people making money
from radiation , seed rad' , and other treatments ....they are
 unethical people . But they can excuse themselves with " We're
experimenting to reduce the low survival rate "   B.S.

My Dad did the "fasting" but maybe too late as he died very quickly at
about age 66 after a life of perfect health .

I nixed GERD in 2 days from fasting ! I'm 61 .

 Fasting only works ( the pain of fasting can be worse than the
disease ) if you master your own mind .
  I found i had to convince a part of mine that gave me headaches
if i mentioned "fasting" . It also told me my stomach would stick
together and there'd be a liter of HCL etc etc .
 When you stop eating , HCL goes to ZERO ! HCL is needed for meat .
I don't eat meat , feel great , ideal body wt ,
 I had to convince my mind that sugar is good  . Sucrose is
a  C12 , broken down to 2 C6's ( Glucose and Fructose + H20 ) .
 No documentation on harmfull sucrose .
You can store glycogen  in liver and elsewhere . Takes abit to
convert it back to glucose . Next takes lots longer the fats
to glucose .  So i would syc myself by saying " i need lots of energy
today , and the mind would try to burn some fat or whatever
to G' .  It works ! I would drink lots of OJ and after 3 days
i tried slice of white bread , worked good .
The starch converted to G' quickly and had energy all day .
 You need very little nutrition ( i'm 170 lbs , 61 , white male )
I can eat 2 slices of bread a day 4 peanuts , OJ , for long periods .

 All this "testing" makes me think about the research done
on cancer ( they want to drug the cancer so it can't develope
vascularity ( capilaries ) .
Do you suppose that old people maybe killing themselves trying
to take in the B vitamins ?
B is needed for growth .  Grow capilaries ! Grow cancer !
Lots of B in meat . But you can make aminos from carbs and the
ammonia in the body and colon . I'm muscular , i make proteins
from white bread and ammonia ( NH3 ) .
   This is basic stuff from all college text books , so pls no
arguements .
 3 to 5 months for B vits , is in my books ( Clinical Chem' )
 and i strictly adhere ! I take a B vit' every 6 months ha ha ha
C is needed every 16 days ( ascorbic tastes so good why ration it )  .

 D is toxic , only to medicate a problem .
K2 is not for sale , you'll have to "limp along" on K3 which is needed
for bleeding problems .

  So what do ya think about nature making it difficult on old people
in terms of malabsorption problems of B vits ?
 I think growth hormones are a death sentence for old people .
Your body is trying to tell you that you simply can't metabolize
nor adrenerginize like you were 21 !
George Conklin - 10 Aug 2005 21:25 GMT
>   One of those "30%" Doctors said biopsies will always
>  be positive in males above 50 .
>
>   Another bit i read says male deaths ( over 55 and not due to P'
> cancer ) showed positive biopsies in 50% of those deaths .

  Well,  if current treatments work the the results are going to be found
after 10 years because up to now, no results have emerged.  Optimists
believe that something will show up later.  Let us hope they are right, but
whatever the effect, it does look like it is kind of small.
Leonard Evens - 11 Aug 2005 02:26 GMT
>>  One of those "30%" Doctors said biopsies will always
>> be positive in males above 50 .
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> believe that something will show up later.  Let us hope they are right, but
> whatever the effect, it does look like it is kind of small.

You are discussing one US study.   You are ignoring other data.  Let me
point out again that if you followed men who smoked for ten years, you
would find that smoking didn't have a dramatic effect on the incidence
of lung cancer.  So it is fruitless to jump to conclusions about what
one particular study will show.  Also, you ignore the fact that prostate
cancer is a complex disease.  There is already some evidence that
treatment for at least some cases is likely to be beneficial, even if it
turns out that overall treatment has only a minimal effect.  And so far
at least, the evidence for that assertion is not very strong.
george conklin - 12 Aug 2005 01:29 GMT
>>>  One of those "30%" Doctors said biopsies will always
>>> be positive in males above 50 .
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> would find that smoking didn't have a dramatic effect on the incidence of
> lung cancer.

  Wrong answer by far.  If you follow people with diagnosed lung cancer for
10 years, you would have zero survived.  If you follow men with diagnosed
prostate cancer for 10 years and still have not found an effect for
treatment, you have found a whole lot.
werty - 13 Aug 2005 15:09 GMT
pls explain my 50% and your "certainty"
werty - 13 Aug 2005 15:23 GMT
Sorry George , i posted in error !  That was for Leonard !
He wanted my "50%" to be 100% "
_________________________

   I have a description of ETHICS that may amase many !
I am a Naturalist ( Commies call me a Capitalist , and others call me
a $##*&!!
 As a N' , i believe in Natural selection ( 100% ) . Maybe some
cancers as
Prostrate cancer were not intended by nature to be curred and thus we
eliminate
the problem thru better breeding !  Terrible isn't nature !!!!
  In N' selection , there are no employed Doctors ,  no "jobs" for
white men .
 So one must make money by "supply and demand"  .  Build a factory in
Nicaragua
Labor too expensive here .
 In this  expensive society one must make at least 300,000 a year  to
EAT !
 No gov't , no police , no banks , no border guards ( no one visists
this place , too expensive ) .
   No crime .  If you even say one bad word of someone you are exiled
by economic
methods ( they are all rich too ! )
     Genes are perfecting , so doctors/hospitals are not needed .  But
some very rich
do take a hobby , so you will have some one to answer your questions !
This solves the age old problem of the DOCTOR . The Chineese said "
Pay til you are sick , then stop paying the doctor .   But gene
improvement works perfect !
 No need to pay a Doctor .  No govt , so no doctors license , no FDA ,
no antibiotics
no nitrousamines , ......
werty - 15 Aug 2005 15:11 GMT
Distracted ! did not finish ETHICS .
It is unethical to have a license and charge money for medical advice
/ treatment .
 Now for the definition of ETHICS !
Ethics can not be created by society nor government for it requires a
free  individual who is of
some consequence .
 Example . In a free mkt capitalistic system , one makes judgments
about his felow buyers and sellors .
 A free mkt is very judgemental /prejudiced  for your own good ( you
only deal with peope of VERY high repute ) .
 You don't deal with females nor blacks nor children , for they can't
achieve the very high degree
of reputation required to "join" the group .

 Sounds terrible ! But it is simply free people trying to raise their
repute to VERY high levels .
 One bad word about someone who is actually good
( undeserving of yor bad mouth ) and you just killed any chance of
doing profitable business .
 In this free market system the only people of "value" are the top
businessmen . All others are
dependent on those top for their food/quarters .
 Prices are too high for even your young son to buy a house or buy
food ! Prices are up for the "competition" from all over the world ,
the rich all
over the world want to live here and they won't allow low priced
ANYTHING .

 Sounds even worse , frightful !   Actually it is the fastest solution
to poverty ,crime , complaints of all types .   Crime can't exist
because those around you
will stop doin business ( your grocer , the owner of the electric co ,
the owner of the street you live on will phone you and say "leave town
while you can still sell your house at 2.7 million "  .
But the perks are you can make 50 million $$ in one lucky week . There
is no gov't nor society to tell
you NOT . No taxes , no border guards ( no one jumps the border where
bread costs $33 a loaf , gas is $12 gal and lowest house is $US 1.8
million )
Electric averages $500 month  . No poor here .

This is natural selection ....  No laws , no crime no
complaints ( complaints are dealt with severly and w/o  raising their
voice )  .

Typical :   son says " Hey pop why not do a factory
in Nicaragua "
Dad " maybe you could do it with your money .."
Son " I don't have any money !!
Father " precisely ....  when you learn how to make
$US 50 million a  year , i'll take very suggestion
you make " !
Girlfrnd says " We need more food in the frig "
Father " ?Your frig ?
G.F. " Yeh my frig !! "
Father " Maybe you need to move to the guest house " ... a subtle hint
she will be bussing one way  back to Panama where he met her on a
fishing trip . Like i said NO COMPLAINTS , NO PROBLEMS
NO DIVORSE , NO SPOILED KIDS , NO RAISING ONES VOICE !!
   Natural selection ......
Leonard Evens - 11 Aug 2005 02:20 GMT
>   One of those "30%" Doctors said biopsies will always
>  be positive in males above 50 .

This is complete nonsense.   About one in four biopsies shows evidence
of prostate cancer.   This is in men who have been referred for a biopsy
because of a PSA or digital rectal examination finding.  Almost all
these men are over 50.   Moreover, in at least one study, men without
indications had biopsies done and about one in six showed evidence of
prostate cancer.  So anyone who asserts that a biopsy done on a man over
50 is sure to show cancer is very ill informed.

>   Another bit i read says male deaths ( over 55 and not due to P'
> cancer ) showed positive biopsies in 50% of those deaths .

There are various different autopsy studies, and they do show that as
men age, the likelihood of finding microscopic evidence of prostate
cancer on autopsy increases.   Different studies show different
percentages, but they do range between 50 percent and 80 percent or
higher, with the higher figures for men over 80.  But this very figure
contradicts the previous assertion that a biopsy on a man over 50 is
certain to show evidence of prostate cancer.

>   I believe that PSA and biopsies are not reliable and should be
> ignored .

You are welcome to your  opinion, but why should anyone else pay
attention to it?
george conklin - 12 Aug 2005 01:31 GMT
>>   One of those "30%" Doctors said biopsies will always
>>  be positive in males above 50 .
>
> This is complete nonsense.   About one in four biopsies shows evidence of
> prostate cancer.

  And that is because a biopsy covers very little of the prostate.  As you
say, if you look long enough, you will find it.
 
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