Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / March 2005
Which way to go?
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anycall - 14 Jan 2005 15:36 GMT I would appreciate any advice/comments
57 years old large prostate 100g plus PSA over last five years between 5 and 10 (currently 9) catheter in place following cyscoscopy and biopsy last week first uro says have TURP but may have to abort during operation and do a simple prostatectomy found out last night that biospsy shows High Grade PIN- I don't know much about this yet but from what I have read so far I feel like "dead man walking"! second uro says he can do greenlight laser with no open surgery and will take further biopsies during operation, second uro says there is a small risk of prostate absorbing "operating fluid" if I had to have the prostatectomy and says he has done plenty of laser treatments on glands of upto 270g
Questions:
TURP or laser? Significance of High Grade PIN on choice of TURP or Laser? Anything else?
Many thanks
Stephen Jordan - 14 Jan 2005 16:58 GMT > 57 years old > large prostate 100g plus [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Significance of High Grade PIN on choice of TURP or Laser? > Anything else? (1) Was the biopsy performed solely on the basis of the PSA? (2) Is there a PSA test history (dates and scores) by which one can judge the doubling time/velocity of changes in scores? (3) If he has had PSA scores between 5 and 10 for five years, he has been beyond the recommended score (4.0 until recently; now 2.5) for that long. What advice has he had for that period?? (4) Are there other symptoms, such as urinary difficulty? (5) Did the uro check for other causes of the PSA score such as infection, inflammation, BPH (benign prostate hyperplasia)? The large prostate may be a sign of the latter, and the operative word is "benign." (6) Have any other staging or diagnostic tests been done? Examples would be PAP (prostatic acid phosphatase), CGA (chromagranin A), bcl-2, etc? (7) Was a DRE performed? If so, what result?
*It is absolutely vital that the biopsy result be validated by a specialist laboratory.*
Though not a medical practitioner, I recommend that NO treatment be undertaken without further testing as above. There is no hurry. Prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia (PIN) is *possibly* a precursor of PCa, and the time before development of the latter is as much as five years. See the website of the Prostate Cancer Research Institute at http://prostate-cancer.org/index.html
On that website, a discussion of PIN is found at http://www.prostate-cancer.org/education/preclin/pin.html
I strongly recommend that "anycall" consult a medical oncologist. Right now, his only advice seems to be coming from a uro, who is a surgeon and naturally advocates a surgical solution (to a problem that may not even exist).
Please let us know how it goes.
Regards,
Steve J __ "Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.'' --Sir Winston L. S. Churchill
Leonard Evens - 14 Jan 2005 19:15 GMT >> 57 years old >> large prostate 100g plus [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > naturally advocates a surgical solution (to a problem that may not even > exist). His main problem at present is BPH. We can't be sure because he doesn't say, but it is extremely unlikely that his doctors haven't already tried medical management of that via drugs. That is standard practice. Presumably he is having serious problems urinating. The standard treatments for that are either a TURP or use of a laser. Note that significant problems with urination requires immediate attention, and the way to handle it if conservative measures have failed involves surgery. A former neighbor of mine ignored such problems and ended up with kidney failure as a result. That can kill you a lot faster than prostate cancer.
Now it is true that he may also have prostate cancer. So he does have to get that straight. If he did have prostate cancer and he had a radical prostatectomy, then that would solve his BPH problems of course. But given the present circumstances, it is highly unlikely that any competent urologist would do a radical prostatectomy. Even if it turns out he has prostate cancer, and he decides not to undergo surgery for that, he would still need to have the urinary blockage treated. And that would be done with surgery of one form or another. I guess it is possible that if he started hormone therapy that might shrink his prostate and solve the urinary problem but not fast enough to resolve what could be a very serious problem. And no competent oncologist would start him on HT in the present circumstances.
> Please let us know how it goes. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > might of the enemy.'' > --Sir Winston L. S. Churchill anycall - 14 Jan 2005 20:19 GMT Thank you Steve
In answer to your questions:
(1) Was the biopsy performed solely on the basis of the PSA?-
No- just before Christmas I noticed a small amount of blood at the commencement of urination. This happened three times over a period of about six weeks. I reported this to my uro and he arranged for bladder and kidney scan (OK), PSA (9), cyscoscopy and biopsy
(2) Is there a PSA test history (dates and scores) by which one can judge the doubling time/velocity of changes in scores?
Aug 98 2.4 April 00 9.6 Aug 00 6.8 Free PSA 1.6 Feb 01 7.3 Free PSA 1.0 April 01 9.5 Dec 01 5.4 Free PSA 1.04 June 02 8.2 Free PSA 1.50 Dec 02 6.0 Jun03 5.5 Dec 03 7.5 Free PSA 1.70 Aug 04 10.0 Jan 05 9.0
(3) If he has had PSA scores between 5 and 10 for five years, he has been beyond the recommended score (4.0 until recently; now 2.5) for that long. What advice has he had for that period??
Uro diagnosed BPH and has been recommending TURP for last 3 years. Two previous biopsies and 1 previous cyscoscopy were clear
(4) Are there other symptoms, such as urinary difficulty?
Yes intermittent bouts of urgency, difficulty in urination, weak flow. Culminating in a total retention following cyscoscopy last week resulting in catheter still in place.
(5) Did the uro check for other causes of the PSA score such as infection, inflammation, BPH (benign prostate hyperplasia)? The large prostate may be a sign of the latter, and the operative word is "benign."
See above
(6) Have any other staging or diagnostic tests been done? Examples would be PAP (prostatic acid phosphatase), CGA (chromagranin A), bcl-2, etc?
No- only the tests described above
(7) Was a DRE performed? If so, what result?-
Several times- no concern expressed by Uro. Last week he said it felt "fine"
*It is absolutely vital that the biopsy result be validated by a
> specialist laboratory.* I presume that the Pathologist he is using is suitably qualified.
I strongly recommend that "anycall" consult a medical oncologist
Could you please explain what is an "oncologist"
advice seems to be coming from a uro, who is a surgeon and
> naturally advocates a surgical solution (to a problem that may not even > exist). He advice is really directed to relieving BPH rather than dealing with a potential cancer
Thanks for your comments, look forward to any further observations
Regards
>> 57 years old >> large prostate 100g plus [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > might of the enemy.'' > --Sir Winston L. S. Churchill Leonard Evens - 14 Jan 2005 19:01 GMT > I would appreciate any advice/comments > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > about this yet but from what I have read so far I feel like "dead man > walking"! This doesn't sound like a typical prostate cancer problem. It sounds more like a complicated form of benign prostatic hypertrophy (bph). I doubt if you are going to get any useful advice from the web about this, but you might try sci.med.prostate.bph or do a google search on bph.
I am not a physician and only know what I've read, so don't take what I say below too seriously. I've got most of my information from a book by Patrick Walsh.
The two urologists are suggesting two different ways to treat bph which is far enough advanced to cause problems urinating. TURP is one standard way to do it. As you may know, that involves inserting a tool to basically ream out the pathway. But the urologist has also told you that in case of complications he may have to go in and remove part of the prostate. What he calls a "simple prostatectomy" is a surgical procedure in which the abdomen is opened and part of the prostate is removed to open the pathway. It is to be distinguished from a radical prostatectomy in which the entire prostate and surrounding tissue is removed in attempt to completely excise a cancer.
The second urologist is suggesting another standard way that is used, a laser which burns out the tissue.
> second uro says he can do greenlight laser with no open surgery and will > take further biopsies during operation, > second uro says there is a small risk of prostate absorbing "operating > fluid" if I had to have the prostatectomy and says he has done plenty of > laser treatments on glands of upto 270g Apparently the reason the first urologist mentioned the possibility of surgery is the size of your prostate, but the second urologist doesn't think that it will be a problem. There is no way anyone on the web can decide which of these guys is right.
> Questions: > > TURP or laser? I would suggest getting additional opinions. Your primary care physician may be able to help you understand the choices. He might also be able to suggest other experts to consult.
> Significance of High Grade PIN on choice of TURP or Laser? High grade PIN is precancerous tissue which some time in the future might turn into cancer. Or, it might not. It doesn't sound as though either doctor wants to treat you for prostate cancer right now. Typically in a TURP (either way) same samples are collected for biopsy. It is possible they may show cancer. Often such cancers are not considered significant, but sometimes they lead to treatment for prostate cancer. It is possible that a simple prostatectomy might make it more difficult to treat cancer later, but I don't really know.
Again, let me say that you need to consult medical experts about this. From the web you will get a lot of contradictory information which you won't be able to evaluate. And you will find people pursuing one agenda or another based on their personal experience.
> Anything else? > > Many thanks Leonard Evens - 14 Jan 2005 19:18 GMT >> I would appreciate any advice/comments >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> much about this yet but from what I have read so far I feel like "dead >> man walking"! Let me just add that you are very far from being dead. But do get some good advice from medical experts and make a decision. If you are having serious urinary problems you could be in real trouble if you put off a decision too long.
> This doesn't sound like a typical prostate cancer problem. It sounds > more like a complicated form of benign prostatic hypertrophy (bph). I [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] >> >> Many thanks EverettRWadsworth@yahoo.com - 15 Jan 2005 04:02 GMT anycall, You are another victim of the fraudulent practices of the urology profession. Your prostate is large because it is full of pus from an infection. The prostate is full of acini which are sacs that secrete prostatic fluid. These sacs have blown up with pus which as a result has distorted the size of the prostate. You write about your PSA over the last five years so it is obvious your urologist has known about your condition for at least five years and yet your urologist has stood by doing nothing - only waiting for conditions to progress to where he can now recommend surgical intervention to treat the complications of the infection. Urologists are suppose to treat all diseases of the prostate however they ignore anything that doesn't require surgery since surgery is more lucrative. Thereby they wait for conditions to progress as is what is happening to you where now surgery can be recommended. anycall, were you ever tested for prostatitis? did your urologist ever treat you for an infection? of course not and that is why your condition is what it is today. Now your urologist is talking about a TURP and a RP. It really makes me sick hearing things like this - outright fraud and deceit by the urology profession. anycall, it might not be too late for you - there is a fantastic book by Dr. Hennenfent title "Surviving Prostate Cancer Without Surgery". I have read it and it saved my life and I have been highly recommending it. It will educate you on your condition and you will be able to take control over your situation so you will receive treatment that is in your own best interests - not the urologist. Regards, Everett
Leonard Evens - 15 Jan 2005 15:44 GMT > anycall, > You are another victim of the fraudulent practices of the urology > profession. And you are trying to practice medicine without a license. You have no idea what is causing this man's problem. Benign prostatic hyperplasia is a common problem which develops in men as they age. It is not the same as infection. You try to take what you think was the problem in your case and apply to every other case.
> Your prostate is large because it is full of pus from an > infection. The prostate is full of acini which are sacs that secrete [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > control over your situation so you will receive treatment that is in > your own best interests - not the urologist. I noticed that Dr. Hennenfent also seems to be ready to offer advice for a variety of other conditions spanning a wide variety of specialties, none of which he is apparently board certified in. He certainly seems to be a talented man, a veritable universal genius in medicine. Most physicians find it hard enough to master one area.
As they say, if something sounds to good to be true, it probably isn't.
> Regards, > Everett EverettRWadsworth@yahoo.com - 15 Jan 2005 18:00 GMT >Leonard Evens wrote: >And you are trying to practice medicine without a license. You have no
>idea what is causing this man's problem. Benign prostatic hyperplasia >is a common problem which develops in men as they age. It is not the >same as infection. You try to take what you think was the problem in >your case and apply to every other case. BPH is a common problem as you have stated that develops in men as they age. However I doubt it is due to a natural aging process as the urology profession wants you to believe but rather it is due to neglect on the part of the urology profession. As I have said before even though urologists should be treating all diseases of the prostate they choose only what is most lucrative to them. Therefore they ignore everything else so as a result small problems progress to even bigger problems where urologists can now treat the complications that have resulted from their own neglect. You have stated that BPH is not the same as an infection. How do you know this? It might be and it might not be. There is also the possibility that BPH could be caused by fat plugging the prostate's arteries which Dr. Hennenfent talks about in his book. Urologists have no real way to distinguish BPH from prostatitis and don't seem to be interested in finding out. It has been shown that if you are under 50 you will be diagnosed with prostatitis and if you are over 50 with the same condition you will be diagnosed with BPH. Some men that were diagnosed with BPH and were suggested a TURP from their uro were later properly diagnosed with prostatitis and were cured of their condition medically. Dr. Hennenfent's book "The Prostatitis Syndromes" talks about the BPH/Prostatitis controversy. So it would seem to make more sense to at least rule out this aspect before resorting to more aggressive invasive procedures as is with this man's case. His urologist seems to have ignored a possible infection as a cause which is common for urologists to do since they are surgeons and treating something medically is not in their interests even though they are also medical doctors and are suppose to treat all diseases of the prostate - not pick and choose what is the most lucrative and ignore everything else.
>As they say, if something sounds to good to be true, it probably isn't. Yes, and the radical prostatectomy is a perfect example of this. It doesn't work if you do need it and it seems to work if you don't need it. Regards, Everett
Leonard Evens - 15 Jan 2005 19:30 GMT >>Leonard Evens wrote: >>And you are trying to practice medicine without a license. You have no [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > resulted from their own neglect. You have stated that BPH is not the > same as an infection. How do you know this? I am stating what is the almost universally accepted belief of the urology profession. Since you are convinced that all urologists are liars and cheats, that doesn't prove anything as far as you are concerned.
But for anyone else who might be reading this, and that is really to whom it is directed, I ask the following question. What is the likelihood that the entire urology profession is wrong and Mr. Wadsworth's interpretation of what he has read in a book by a physician who isn't even board certified in urology is right. I refer here specifically to the issue of benign prostatic hyperplasia and how to treat it.
The question of how to treat early prostate cancer is another matter. There are those in the medical profession who question whether it is generally worthwhile treating such cancers by any method, surgery or radiation, rather than waiting until explicit symptoms develop and then using hormone therapy to extend life as long as possible. Everyone except extremists admits that some men are helped by such intervention and some men who presently get it would never be bothered by their cancers during their lifetimes. Unfortunately, there is no foolproof way to distinguish between the cases. The moderate critics of present treatment guidelines think the cost to the men who don't need the treatment in terms of side effects or extra worry is too high to make up for the benefit to those who are cured or have their lives extended. There are two question here. One is from the public health perspective whether to push early detections schemes. It may be that they are not "cost effective". The other question is from the perspective of any given man whether it is worth his while to have himself tested and then to treat his cancer if it is detected. For some men, it is clearly worth their while. Because of ethnic background or family history, they are at much higher risk of prostate cancer, and a chance to cure it or slow it down is worthwhile on balance. For older men, who are not likely to live more than 10 years, it is generally not worthwhile because even if they do get prostate cancer it probably can be adequately controlled while they are alive and won't present too much of a problem. Other men are somewhere in the middle.
In all of this, it is a matter of trying to change the odds in your favor after you consider all the factors. Myself, I opted for testing, and when my cancer was diagnosed, I chose to have it treated. I understood the odds that the treatment wold fail and that there might be side effects I didn't like. But in balance I thought it preferable to try to avoid advanced prostate cancer, which is not fun at all. I made my choice and I have to live or die with it. So far things have worked out well. When other men ask me about it, I tell them what I know, not leaving out the uncertainties about whether or not they will actually benefit or if they even need to be treated. I respect their right to make their own decisions.
Mr Wadsworth's assertions about all these matters is rather unusual to say the least. He thinks there is only one disease. My advice is to ignore what he says.
EverettRWadsworth@yahoo.com - 17 Jan 2005 15:46 GMT >Leonard Evens wrote: >I am stating what is the almost universally accepted belief of the >urology profession. That's your problem. The rate of prostate cancer is 100% if you live long enough so something is obviously wrong with what the urology profession is doing yet you want to be close minded blindly accepting whatever the urology profession tells you which will only result in the rate of prostate cancer continuing to be 100% if you live long enough.
>What is the likelihood that the entire urology profession is wrong and Mr.
>Wadsworth's interpretation of what he has read in a book by a physician >who isn't even board certified in urology is right. Why don't you read the book and find out for yourself instead of continuing to be close minded.
>I refer here specifically to the issue of benign prostatic hyperplasia and how to
>treat it. If you weren't so close minded and read the book you would actually learn something here about BPH and in turn how to quite possibly prevent prostate cancer.
>The question of how to treat early prostate cancer is another matter. >There are those in the medical profession who question whether it is >generally worthwhile treating such cancers by any method, surgery or >radiation, rather than waiting until explicit symptoms develop and then >using hormone therapy to extend life as long as possible. Everyone >except extremists admits that some men are helped by such intervention
>and some men who presently get it would never be bothered by their >cancers during their lifetimes. Unfortunately, there is no foolproof >way to distinguish between the cases....<snipped> Ok, that's fine what you said and for that matter the rest of your paragraph. I have no arguments there with much of that and Dr. Hennenfent writes similar about it in his book. But here you are actually admitting without realizing it that the science is bad in urology and urologists don't really know what to do and from what I've seen they don't care to find out. Their only concern is to do surgery which has never shown to extend anyone's life and only results in permanent side-effects and helps nobody except the financial statement of the urologist and the hospital.
>Mr Wadsworth's assertions about all these matters is rather unusual to
>say the least. He thinks there is only one disease. My advice is to >ignore what he says. If you think my assertions about these matters is rather unusual than that's fine, it's about time everyone finds out how the urology profession operates. If you read the book you would understand why I think there is only one disease and I feel you would feel the same after you learn the facts rather than remaining close minded as you are. Everyone should ignore what I say? What about what you say? You want everyone to follow the urology profession which will result in a 100% occurance of prostate cancer and mutilation. You like to refer to Patrick Walsh's book. Patrick Walsh will tell you not to come in or discourage you from coming in if he senses you do not have a problem that has the potential for some surgical procedure. Even though he is suppose to treat all diseases of the prostate he likes to pick and choose what is most lucrative as mostly all urologists seem to do therefore contributing to the problem. He will give you his sales pitch for his nerve-sparing operation. Dr. Hennenfent talks about this operation in his book. I will quote a sentence from his book "The nerve sparing approach can actually make the operation more likely to fail because cancer is more likely to be left behind along the nerves that are spared". So from your statement that everyone should ignore what I say - I think it's time everyone better listen to what I have to say and hopefully they are all not close minded like you are. Regards, Everett
ron - 17 Jan 2005 16:50 GMT EverettRWadswo...@yahoo.com wrote:...snip...
> The rate of prostate cancer is 100% if you live long enough This statement is a belief, not a fact (or is there a reference?). More to the point, it has no basis in reality. PCa does not affect teenagers, an effective cure is one that allows people to live 30-40 years beyond treatment. The overwhelming majority of men treated by RP today are "cured", they die of something other than PCa.
> ...snip...the science is bad in > urology and urologists don't really know what to do and from what I've > seen they don't care to find out. Quit bad-mouthing urologists it is becoming tiresome. They are just like any other group of individuals, there are good and bad urologists. The few that I have encountered have been open minded and try to do what is in the patient's best interest.
> Their only concern is to do surgery > which has never shown to extend anyone's life and only results in > permanent side-effects and helps nobody except the financial statement > of the urologist and the hospital. This is untrue. In the Holmberg study, the underlying PCa population was divided into two arms, one was treated by RP and the other practiced WW, and results were compared over time. At the 6-year point it was found that RP had reduced the rate of local progression by 63%, reduced distant metastasis by 35%, and reduced PCa-specific deaths by 48%. Further, the surgical branch had 14.5% less overall mortality than those on WW. This last difference did not test statistically significant at 6 years. PCa is often a slowly progressing disease, so it is not surprising that a difference in overall mortality did not test significant at 6 years into the study. Presumably as time goes on and the striking differences already seen in progression and mets increase further, the overall mortality difference will increase further and test significant. In any case, PCa-specific and overall mortality rates were lower in the RP arm as compared to the WW arm.
> ...snip...Dr. Hennenfent talks about this > operation in his book. I will quote a sentence from his book "The > nerve sparing approach can actually make the operation more likely to > fail because cancer is more likely to be left behind along the nerves > that are spared". "Can" is the key word in Dr. H's statement. Doctors (especially those of Walsh's caliber) and patients, usually collect data to assess the likelihood of PCa being present in the nerve bundles, and then make an informed decision on how to proceed based upon the data and the patient's priorities.
Everett, I don't disagree with the point you make regarding infection and cancer, it is a promising area that has only recently begun to be explored. However, rarely are things as one-sided as you seem to present them. Today, surgery has a place in treating PCa and saying otherwise only misinforms. Since this is a science board, it would be helpful in your future posts if you posted some specific data or references, that I presume exist in Dr. H's book, rather than just referring to the book, in order to substantiate your position and foster debate...Good health and best wishes, Ron
EverettRWadsworth@yahoo.com - 20 Jan 2005 00:57 GMT >ron wrote: >an effective cure is one that allows people to live 30-40 >years beyond treatment >The overwhelming majority of men treated by RP >today are "cured", they die of something other than PCa. That is not a cure. That is only your definition of a cure. Here is how Dr. Hennenfent defines a cure a I quite agree with it: "Surgeons have perverted the meaning of the word cure when it comes to prostate cancer. If you undergo the radical surgery called the radical prostatectomy, you can never be considered cured, because you always sacrifice some quality of life. A cure only occurs when you are treated and your illness goes away and you return to normal health. The word cure should never occur in the same sentence with the term radical prostatectomy. "
>Quit bad-mouthing urologists it is becoming tiresome. Bad-mouthing urologists might be your interpretation but that's not how I see it. I am performing a public service warning everyone of the fraudulent practices of the urology profession.
>They are just like any other group of individuals, there are good and bad urologists.
No, there are only bad urologists. The urology profession is based on flawed science. If you read Dr. Hennenfent's book you would understand why.
>The few that I have encountered have been open minded and try to do >what is in the patient's best interest. You only think that they are trying to do what is in the patient's best interest since you have not read Dr. Hennenfent's book and as a result you only have limited knowledge.
>This is untrue. In the Holmberg study, the underlying PCa population >was divided into two arms, one was treated by RP and the other [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >than those on WW. This last difference did not test statistically >significant at 6 years <snip> Statistics can be manipulated to achieve the desired outcome. In Dr. Hennenfent's book he says about the Holmberg study the authors concluded "there was no significant difference between surgery and watchful waiting in terms of overall survival".
You might also want to take a look at this: http://survivingprostatecancerwithoutsurgery.org/prostatecancerholmberg.php
>"Can" is the key word in Dr. H's statement. Doctors (especially those >of Walsh's caliber) Of Walsh's caliber??? You have got to be kidding. Walsh contributes to the problem! Walsh is part of the problem, not the solution. Ron, you obviously don't understand what is going on with the urology profession. Please do yourself a favor and read Dr. Hennenfent's book. You really do need to read Dr. Hennenfent's book.
>Everett, I don't disagree with the point you make regarding infection >and cancer, it is a promising area that has only recently begun to be >explored. Good, I am very happy to hear this from you. Yes, it definitely is a promising area. If you read Dr. Hennenfent's book you would understand that infection could hold the key to solving prostate cancer.
>However, rarely are things as one-sided as you seem to >present them. Today, surgery has a place in treating PCa and saying >otherwise only misinforms. Surgery has no place in treating PCa. Surgery harms all who undergo it and in saying otherwise misinforms. Regards, Everett
dale.j. - 18 Jan 2005 09:37 GMT > >Leonard Evens wrote: > >I am stating what is the almost universally accepted belief of the [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > Regards, > Everett I've read enough of your babblings Everett. You're going to my killfile. goodby
 Signature Email: dalej2@mac.com
EverettRWadsworth@yahoo.com - 18 Jan 2005 16:24 GMT >dale.j. wrote: >I've read enough of your babblings Everett. You're going to my >killfile. goodby I'm sorry the truth disturbs you Dale. Goodbye and good luck. Regards, Everett
anycall - 26 Feb 2005 21:24 GMT You may recall that I asked for comments, a few weeks ago, on my forthcoming operation for bph.
In hindsight I should have perhaps posted to the bph newsgroup but I did get a response, although unfortunately two contributors entered into a fairly heated discussion. Anyway many thanks for your input.
I thought I might update you with what has happened.
After further discussion with my (TURP) uro I decided, just a few days before the operation to go for "traditional TURP" rather than laser. It was no easy decision.
I went into hospital on 27 Jan and had the operation at 9.00am. It took 1.25 hours. I awoke in the recovery room with just a little pain in the abdomen which was quickly sorted out by a shot of morphine. I have suffered no pain from that point onwards. As my blood pressure was a little on the low side a nurse sat with me constantly in the recovery room for 2 or 3 hours until they were confident that I could be returned to my room.
I was on antibiotics and paracetamol. I drank gallons of water and took in plenty of other liquid through a (saline?) drip.I stayed in hospital for three nights and returned home on day 4. Apart from feeling a little tired I was fine and returned to my desk (at home) to work a week after discharge from hospital.
A few days later I picked up a urinary infection which was soon cleared up with antibiotics. I think that if I had continued on antibiotics upon leaving hospital I would not even have got the infection, but we chose not to continue with them as I have a low level allergy to them.
After two weeks there was no trace of blood in urine. I do have retro but this makes no difference to the sensation during sex, and the retro may reverse in time.
Luckily there was no need for the "simple prostatectomy" and the Uro removed 60g of material for analysis.
I am now urinating with a flow that I have not experienced since I was a teenager, there is no more dribbling, no urgency and instead of getting up to urinate 3 to 5 times a night, it is now 0 to 1 a night.
The test results showed no cancer.
On the same day a gentleman of 78 years also had the procedure and he left on the same day that I did.
I am totally happy with the result of the TURP and if I had known how easy it was going to be I would have had it years ago.
This is not to denegrate the laser option, I suspect that within a few years it may overtake traditional TURP as the prefered option. I might easily have chosen that method myself, it was simply that my particular circumstances led me to choose the traditional TURP.
Anyway, thank you again for your comments and good luck to you.
Regards
Anycall
>I would appreciate any advice/comments > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Many thanks Mike - 01 Mar 2005 13:06 GMT > I am now urinating with a flow that I have not experienced since I was a > teenager, there is no more dribbling, no urgency and instead of getting up > to urinate 3 to 5 times a night, it is now 0 to 1 a night. The same results could have been obtained by use of the drug FloMax.
Rich - 02 Mar 2005 18:41 GMT > > I am now urinating with a flow that I have not experienced since I was a > > teenager, there is no more dribbling, no urgency and instead of getting up > > to urinate 3 to 5 times a night, it is now 0 to 1 a night. > > The same results could have been obtained by use of the drug FloMax. With lots of side effects. Many of us who have tried it have given it up because of nausea, back pains and muscle pains in general. It has just too many side effects. It only helped me marginally and was not worth the pain. My URO does both PVP and TUMT. He suggested trying the TUMT first and I went along and will have it done in a couple weeks. Perhaps a mistake not going directly to the PVP.
Greg Louis - 03 Mar 2005 13:15 GMT >> > I am now urinating with a flow that I have not experienced since I was >> > a teenager, there is no more dribbling, no urgency and instead of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > With lots of side effects. Many of us who have tried it have given it up > because of nausea, back pains and muscle pains in general. Not everyone experiences those side effects. It would likely be worth digging out statistics before making a decision; as an example, I have been on 0.4mg/day since being seeded Nov. 16, and have found it effective (I forgot one once and the difference was quite convincing) without any of the problems mentioned above.
Rich - 03 Mar 2005 15:24 GMT > >> > I am now urinating with a flow that I have not experienced since I was > >> > a teenager, there is no more dribbling, no urgency and instead of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > (I forgot one once and the difference was quite convincing) without any of > the problems mentioned above. That is true but I think a little research you will find that it has more side effects than most medications. I thought dizziness was the only thing until reading here about those with other aches and pains. And it doesn't cure the problem. Perhaps only is a relief for a while - it does not shrink the prostate. Due to the possible side effects my URO would not even consider giving it to a 97 year old.
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