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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / October 2004

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Question about Propecia  leading to prostate cancer risk

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Pierre Lapointe - 29 Oct 2004 21:29 GMT
Hello,

I'm 33.   I've been taking Propecia for 5 years, with great results.
I have no history of prostate cancer in my family.  However, my
dermatologist is now reluctant to give me a prescription for it. I
even had to sign a paper that I understand that Propecia increases the
risk of prostate cancer.

I checked the net a bit, and it seems that Propecia and Proscar
actually do more good than harm in regards to prostate cancer.

My dermatologist based his comments on this paper:

http://archderm.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/extract/140/7/885-a?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&
hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=finasteride&searchid=1099080177669_1188&stored_se
arch=&FIRSTINDEX=0&journalcode=archderm


I don't have access to the full article since I do not suscribe.  

But here's what I found in the extract:
It was found that "Finasteride prevents or delays the appearance of
prostate cancer" by 24.6% (finasteride, 803/4368 [18.4%]; placebo,
1147/4692 [24.4%]) but "increased the risk of high-grade prostate
cancer (Grade 7, 8, 9, 10)" by 67% (finasteride, 280/757 [37%];
placebo, 237/1068 [22.2%] [P<.001]) in men diagnosed as having
prostate cancer.

I'd like to know your advice.  Is Propecia good or bad for prostate
cancer?  Should I stop taking it?

Tx
Stephen Jordan - 29 Oct 2004 23:22 GMT
> I'm 33.   I've been taking Propecia for 5 years, with great
results.
> I have no history of prostate cancer in my family.  However, my
> dermatologist is now reluctant to give me a prescription for it. I
> even had to sign a paper that I understand that Propecia
increases the
> risk of prostate cancer.
>
> I checked the net a bit, and it seems that Propecia and Proscar
> actually do more good than harm in regards to prostate cancer.
>
> My dermatologist based his comments on this paper:

http://archderm.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/extract/140/7/885-a?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&
hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=finasteride&searchid=1099080177669_1188&stored_se
arch=&FIRSTINDEX=0&journalcode=archderm


> I don't have access to the full article since I do not suscribe.
>
> But here's what I found in the extract:
> It was found that "Finasteride prevents or delays the
appearance of
> prostate cancer" by 24.6% (finasteride, 803/4368 [18.4%]; placebo,
> 1147/4692 [24.4%]) but "increased the risk of high-grade prostate
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> I'd like to know your advice.  Is Propecia good or bad for
prostate
> cancer?  Should I stop taking it?

Propecia and Proscar are both finasteride. Propecia dosage is 1
mg; Proscar dosage is 5 mg.

Proscar is often used to treat benign prostate hyperplasia.

A common hormone treatment for prostate cancer is suppression of
testosterone because it tends to encourage the development of
prostate cancer cells. The drugs used to prevent testicular
production do not affect the adrenal cortex production, and the
latter is where Proscar is often used. Suppression of the 5-10%
of the total testosterone production from the adrenal cortexes,
along with suppression by other means of its production by the
testes, effectively prevents production any testosterone.

Proscar also prevents conversion of testosterone into dihydrotes-
tosterone, which is five to ten times more powerful than simple
testosterone.

This is known as "chemical castration."

I recommend that Pierre look up Propecia (and Proscar) at
http://www.rxlist.com/

Side effects and contraindications are covered. I found nothing
that indicates that either formulation encourages
prostate cancer.

I recommend that Pierre tell his dermatologist that he wants a copy
of the entire article. That's quite a teaser on the JAMA page to
which the
link takes one. If he can, he might run it past an oncologist.

I note that the author appears to be Patrick Walsh, who, with
help, wrote
a book some while ago about prostate cancer. Walsh is a urologist.

There is another PCa book, _A Primer on Prostate Cancer_ by
Stephen B. Strum et al.
Proscar is mentioned favorably several times. Strum is a medical
oncologist.

BTW and FWIW, my internist studied under Walsh. Considers him to
be an opinionated man
who won't listen to views or facts that are inconsistent with his
preconceptions. I merely
report the fact of my internist's opinion without attempting to
evaluate it. So please, folks,
hold your fire; don't shoot the messenger.

Regards,

Steve J
__
"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or
small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of
honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the
apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.''
--Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill
Leonard Evens - 30 Oct 2004 16:59 GMT
>  >
>  > I'm 33.   I've been taking Propecia for 5 years, with great results.
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
> it. So please, folks,
> hold your fire; don't shoot the messenger.

I find this puzzling.  Walsh is a urologist.  Urology is a surgical
specialty.  A specialist in internal medicine would not ordinarily do a
residency under a urologist.   Of course,  it is possible your doctor
went to medical school at Hopkins and got some of his medical school
education from Walsh.   And he may have reacted negatively to him.  It
is also possible that he started out in urology and then switched to
internal medicine for whatever reason.

There are of course differences in emphasis between urologists, who are
surgeons, and oncologists whose specialty is a subspecialty of internal
medicine.   The former are more likely to recommend cutting, and the
latter the use of medications.   But I think the differences are
exaggerated.  For example, I just read something by Strum who is trying
to distinguish between local cancers and those which have spread to
distant sites and become systemic.   He describes a Gleason 8, PSA 22
case which was treated as if it were a local cancer,  which is somewhat
unlikely, as an example of a mistaken treatment choice.   I would be
very surprised if Walsh would disagree with him about such a case.

> Regards,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> might of the enemy.''
> --Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill
Stephen Jordan - 30 Oct 2004 17:37 GMT
(ka-snip)
Quoting me:

>> BTW and FWIW, my internist studied under Walsh. Considers him to be an
>> opinionated man
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> is also possible that he started out in urology and then switched to
> internal medicine for whatever reason.

I don't know the details. My internist's father and brother were
urologists (I learned this after making disparaging remarks about
"wierd urologists"). Oops!

Perhaps he did start out to be a uro, but changed his mind. I dunno.

We did not discuss Walsh in any depth. The subject came up when I
told my internist about my Partin Table results. He told me that
he had met Dr. Partin, thinks he's a fine medic, though a bit
odd. I then mentioned the fact that Walsh is a co-author of the
Tables. That's when he told me about his opinion.

> There are of course differences in emphasis between urologists, who are
> surgeons, and oncologists whose specialty is a subspecialty of internal
> medicine.   The former are more likely to recommend cutting, and the
> latter the use of medications.  

Agreed. And then there's the subdivision between medical and
radiation oncs.

> But I think the differences are
> exaggerated.  For example, I just read something by Strum who is trying
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> unlikely, as an example of a mistaken treatment choice.   I would be
> very surprised if Walsh would disagree with him about such a case.

So would I.

I just bought Strum's book; haven't yet done more than skim it.
Looks thorough.

Regards,

Steve J
__
"Natural laws have no pity."
--Lazarus Long
ron - 30 Oct 2004 14:51 GMT
Hello Pierre...The "experts" are split on the answer to your question.
In the original study published in the NEJM, it was shown that
finasteride reduced the incidence of PCa by about 25% (PCa was
detected in 18.4% of the men available for final analysis in the
finasteride arm, versus a 24.4% detection rate in the placebo arm).
However, there was a higher incidence of Gleason grade tumors 7, 8, 9
and 10 in the finasteride arm (280 of 757 tumors [37%] in the
finasteride group vs. 237 of 1068 tumors [22.2%] in the control
group).  So, many feel that while Finasteride reduces the incidence of
PCa, the PCa that results is more aggressive.

However, the other camp argues that the study was flawed.  Drs.
Gleason, Bostwick and Epstein wrote a letter to the NEJM claiming that
any hormonal treatment, including Finasteride, will markedly alter the
appearance of PCa cells making it look more aggressive and make
Gleason grading suspect (BTW there was a conference at the Mayo Clinic
in 1996 were 30 leading pathologists and urologists took a similar
position with respect to the Gleason grading of PCA from men on ADT).
The letter was rejected for publication.  It has also been pointed out
that the average prostate volume was smaller (as expected) in the
finasteride arm than in the placebo arm (25.5 cm^3 vs. 33.6 cm^3),
which could well affect the sampling and detetction rates.

Bright minds on both sides of the debate, what is the truth?..Best
wishes and good health, Ron

> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Tx
 
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