Because this group has been so helpful to me in assessing the benefits of
PVP, I would like to describe my own recent experience with the procedure.
Background: Age 68 -- Slowly worsening BPH symptoms for at least 10 years -
need to urinate 4-5 times during the night, week stream with ending dribble
for ? a minute, a very strong, urgent need to urinate that was almost
impossible to control sometimes, and often needing to urinate again within
20 minutes. In other words, the usual, and very annoying/uncomfortable
symptoms that were forcing me to make many lifestyle adjustments. I had put
off getting a traditional TURP for several years, although that was what my
urologist recommended - but recently he bought a TUNA machine and wanted me
to try that first! I had briefly tried Hytrin, but quickly stopped due to
the lightheadedness it created. Due to some slight blood in the urine this
spring, a cystoscopy and ultrasound were done, with negative findings.
Following the many positive results reported in this newsgroup, I started
looking for a urologist in the Boston area that was using the Laserscope -
alas, none! Hard to believe - one of the medical centers of the country,
and no one using it. The nearest to me was Dr. Barry Stein in Providence.
A reply, to a post I made to this group, came from a California (!) resident
(who had relatives in this area) who had had the procedure with Dr. Stein
and was very pleased with him. So I contacted him for an evaluation, and
saw him in June. He did an ultrasound indicating a 110 gram prostate. He
said I had 2 options: a traditional prostatectomy (the full surgical
abdominal procedure thing) which would be able to remove 80 grams of tissue,
bringing the prostate back to normal size, BUT, with a 37% rate of serious
complications, several months of recovery, etc etc. Or, the PVP, which has
very low risk of complications, but would probably only remove about 60
grams. He said he removes about 1 gram per minute using the Niagara PVP.
He said he had done about 50 PVP's so far, and had had no problems, and
excellent patient satisfaction with the procedure. So I scheduled a PVP
for late July.
The procedure was done on an outpatient basis at Rhode Island Hospital,
which is right across the street from one of Dr. Stein's offices. And,
because I was traveling some distance (over an hour) from home, I could, if
I wanted to, plan to stay overnight in the hospital in order to be able to
deal with any problems should they occur. I accepted that suggestion.
According to the surgical records, I was under general anesthesia for 1:44,
and the surgery itself took 1:00 hour. The cystoscope revealed an 'extremely
long prostate with at least a 70-80 gram BPH in the lateral lobes, with no
median lobe. The Niagara was set at 80 watts, and at total of 141,000 joules
was used.'
Surgery was in the morning, and by early afternoon I was urinating (thru a
catheter) with some blood - pinkish, but no profuse bleeding. The catheter
was only slightly uncomfortable, but caused no pain. I was given vicodin as
I desired, for some tenderness and soreness. I was glad I was staying in
the hospital for the night, even though I probably could have managed at
home. At midnight the catheter was removed, and there was some brief
burning pain during the extraction. I was able to urinate normally after
that - still some blood showing in the urine.
I went home the next morning - no pain, but definite tenderness in the
scrotum. During the next 3 days I first used a little vicodin, and then
switched to Tylenol. It was uncomfortable sitting for long, and I had to
use a soft piece of foam, with a 'cutout' for you know what. The bleeding
quickly diminished to almost nothing, though there would be brief amounts
during the next 3 weeks. There was no burning during urination. The
tenderness slowly subsided, but it took several weeks.
Now, 6 weeks later, I'm a very happy camper. Much stronger stream, no
dribble, no sudden overpowering urge to urinate, nighttime frequency reduced
to maybe 2 times per night. There appears to be partial retro during
ejaculation - nothing that bothers me. As Dr Stein said during a follow-up
visit, it generally takes a good 3 months before everything is stabilized
and the full benefits are realized.
So, what did this all cost? Well, I was faced with the problem of being in
the Harvard Pilgrim HMO plan for seniors, which I anticipated (and my
primary care physician agreed) would give me a real hard time getting
approval for an out-of-area (actually, out of state) procedure. So I dropped
them in May, and went on to straight Medicare. This turned out, I believe,
to be a wise move. As seen below, my total cost was $602. An absolute
bargain as far as I'm concerned.
Would I recommend the PVP to other suitable candidates - absolutely.
Would I recommend Dr. Stein - whole heartedly. (Incidentally, my urologist
in the Boston Area also strongly recommends Dr. Stein - he has been a
pioneer in laser surgery for urology uses for a long time, apparently, and
was involved in the 2nd multi-center PVP study that was recently published).
Billed
Medicare Paid
I Paid
Rhode Island Hospital
8285
1416
354
Anesthesiologists
1040
178
45
Dr Stein
Surgery
4032
469
117
Office visits and testing
965
462
86
____________
______________
____________
TOTAL
14322
2525
602
Larry
Patrick - 15 Sep 2003 04:12 GMT
Larry,
Congratulations and welcome to the post-PVP club.
You will notice even bigger improvements in the weeks and months ahead.
Then you will start to notice all the little quality of life improvements
that you never realized that you had lost because of BPH.
Best wishes for continued success.
Patrick
PVP June 2002
Dr. Te New York
> Because this group has been so helpful to me in assessing the benefits of
> PVP, I would like to describe my own recent experience with the procedure.
[quoted text clipped - 115 lines]
>
> Larry
Derry Argue - 15 Sep 2003 04:59 GMT
> Because this group has been so helpful to me in assessing the benefits
> of PVP, I would like to describe my own recent experience with the
> procedure.
(Rest snipped)
Excellent, Larry and most useful!
On the basis of what you've said, I will try to arrange to stay over night
at the hospital after my PVP next month.
This sort of report is extremely valuable to us all.
Derry
Rob Marks - 15 Sep 2003 06:59 GMT
Larry,
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Reports such as yours
make this group so valuable and in the process helps so many of us
make sound choices.
Much appreciate!
Rob
Larry Parker - 15 Sep 2003 16:27 GMT
Looks like my expense table in previous post got totally mashed.
Here it is again!
Billed Medicare Paid I Paid
Rhode Island Hospital 8285 1416 354
Anesthesiologists 1040 178 45
Dr Stein
Surgery 4032 469 117
Office visits/tests 965 462 86
TOTAL 14322 2525 602
Bob@see-below-for-address.com - 15 Sep 2003 19:26 GMT
> Looks like my expense table in previous post got totally mashed.
> Here it is again!
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> TOTAL 14322 2525 602
Excellent. There are many "reports," but information on costs is lacking.

Signature
r.s.nevin@att.net
Lee M. - 15 Sep 2003 22:36 GMT
Do I interpret this correctly as the total payments to the hospital and
doctors were about $11,000 short of what they billed? The billing seems way
high but the actual payment seems a little low.
> Looks like my expense table in previous post got totally mashed.
> Here it is again!
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> TOTAL 14322 2525 602
John - 13 Oct 2003 02:17 GMT
Well, one of the major problems with health care delivery in the US is
how the $$$ is handled.
If an individual has to self pay, he (or she, but we'll go with he in
this group) gets to pay the full 'customary' price.
If an individual has insurance, he gets billed at the full price, but
the provider only gets what he has contracted with the insurance
carrier, which is less and sometimes much less than 'full price' (eg,
the anesthesiologists in Larry's example on get about 20% of full
price).
If the individual is on Medicare, it is even less, it is what Medicare
will pay per procedure, period. Actually, I guess Larry's example is a
Medicare example.
So what would you do if you were a health care provider? Only take
self pay patients? Limit the number of Medicare patients? Join only
the 'best' HMOs? The 1st two options are, of course, illegal at worst
and unethical at best, yet this explains the attitude many Medicare
patients get at some Doc shops.
>Do I interpret this correctly as the total payments to the hospital and
>doctors were about $11,000 short of what they billed? The billing seems way
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>
>> TOTAL 14322 2525 602
Lee K - 14 Oct 2003 01:09 GMT
> So what would you do if you were a health care provider? Only take
> self pay patients? Limit the number of Medicare patients? Join only
> the 'best' HMOs? The 1st two options are, of course, illegal at worst
> and unethical at best, yet this explains the attitude many Medicare
> patients get at some Doc shops.
My daughter goes to a dentist who accepts no insurance: all his patients
are cash-only.
As for Medicare, many physicians limit the number of patients they'll
accept, why would it be illegal? After all, as you showed in quoting the
payouts for the PVP procedure, why should they work for a fraction of what
they otherwise can get? Seems like it would be restraint of trade to force
them to take on patients that don't pay. They don't take on
Medicare/Medicaid just like they don't accept certain insurers: those
carriers don't pay the going rate. Sometimes physicians accept a limited
number of Medicare patients only to fill otherwise idle time.
Jack - 16 Sep 2003 21:34 GMT
Larry, congratulations! I enjoyed your account very much.
It is very well written and detailed, and will be of much
help to future patients. As Patrick points out, the best is
yet to come.
I had PVP by Dr. Lin of St. Augustine, FL in Nov. 2002, and
am approaching one year, and I continue to think of it as the
most successful medical procedure I've ever experienced. I had
a much smaller (50 gm) gland, but did have median lobe involvement.
Nevertheless, I had an almost bloodless, painless operation,
and am grateful every day I did not have to undergo the "gold
standard" turp. It's just a matter of time until this name will
refer to it's rightful owner, namely PVP!! I have posted a number
of times after my op., and will give a more detailed report on
my one year aniversary in November. Best of continued improvement.
Jack G.
Snappa - 22 Sep 2003 21:43 GMT
Larry,
I have just returned from an appointment with Dr. Zabbo who shares offices
with Dr. Stein. I have a 1 cm bladder stone that need to be removed by
fragmentation (using a laser??) and, at the same time, he wants to do a PVP.
I was wondering if, in your research, you came across Dr. Zabbo's name and
any comments relating to him. Zabbo says he has done just over a half-dozen
PVP's whereas Stein had done about twice that number. Apparently they are
the only two in RI doing the PVP.
If the stone had not been discovered, I would not consider having the PVP
done at this time. Zabbo indicated to me last week that I was just below the
"normal" limits as far a speed and volume are concerned and my lifestyle has
not been impacted, except for mild side effects of Flomax. He feels the
stone was formed over the last two years however, by too much retention.
Zabbo advised me a resident may "assist" in the procedure inasmuch as RI
Hospital is a teaching hospital. When I opted out of resident assisting he
became very defensive. Not good for my confidence level.
If any other of on this forum would care to comment, I would greatly
appreciate it.
Thanks in advance
Paul
> Because this group has been so helpful to me in assessing the benefits of
> PVP, I would like to describe my own recent experience with the procedure.
[quoted text clipped - 115 lines]
>
> Larry
Dan - 27 Sep 2003 00:13 GMT
> Larry,
>
[quoted text clipped - 166 lines]
> >
> >What did your doc mean when he said you were "just below the
"normal" limits as far a speed and volume are concerned"
Did he think a 80 gram prostate was the limit for a PVP?
Dan