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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate BPH / November 2004

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??  Anyone Trying to Treat Causes??

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Spread deMocracy - 30 Oct 2004 15:12 GMT
Is ANYONE trying to find the CAUSE of their DHTs and hence what is CAUSING
their prostate to grow??

(I'm excluding cancer and Prostatitis-induced BPH in this query--cancer will
require a specialized regime for treatment; on the other hand, Prostatitis
is known to be caused by bacterial infections and hence CURABLE so does not
need more elaboration.)

It appears that most posts on this board are about SYMPTOMS of BPH.  While I
understand that our  anxiety is high when faced with BPH, there is next to
no postings dealing with the tougher matter of seeking a cure for BPH,
rather than symptomic relief?

With the power and reach of this newsgroup...we MIGHT be able to make a
serious contribution to this science by pooling our collective experiences
to hunt down the causes.  Surely some of you would have gone to an
endocrinologist--one who would have run complete blood work ups, and not
just PSA, glucose and DHT--and was able to answer the question about what
gland(s) is/are CAUSING your prostate to be sensitized to DHT and hence to
grow?  If so, please, share that info with this group.
ABC - 30 Oct 2004 18:23 GMT
> Is ANYONE trying to find the CAUSE of their DHTs and hence what is CAUSING
> their prostate to grow??
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> gland(s) is/are CAUSING your prostate to be sensitized to DHT and hence to
> grow?  If so, please, share that info with this group.

There are theories:

http://yourmedicalsource.com/library/prostateenlargement/BPH_causes.html#sexhor
Spread deMocracy - 31 Oct 2004 02:27 GMT
ABC, thank you.  I am familiar with the data in your link.   I am searching
for info beyond the theories of high DHT and high estrogen.  I'd like to
know what causes high DHT and high estrogen?  Which gland(s) craps out?
What are the early warning signs?  But I am grateful to you for the link and
the info, nonetheless.   Thank you.

"ABC" <DEF@YYY.net> wrote in message > There are theories:
http://yourmedicalsource.com/library/prostateenlargement/BPH_causes.html#sexhor
ABC - 31 Oct 2004 03:23 GMT
I am just hoping that we don't get socialized medicine in.  I think that
would be the end of research for things like that.  Bad enough now that the
Americans are paying the high drug costs which is used to fund most medical
research while other countries such as Canada get discounts.  Dr. Salk said
that even in 1980 he would not have been able to develop his vaccine due to
government regulations.  Can you imagine what it would be if the government
was running everything in the medicine field.  A fellow from Norway was
telling me that if a bureaucrat decides that you are not worth an expensive
procedure the doctors are not allowed to treat you for pay either.  Then you
would be getting treatment not available to the public!

> ABC, thank you.  I am familiar with the data in your link.   I am searching
> for info beyond the theories of high DHT and high estrogen.  I'd like to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> "ABC" <DEF@YYY.net> wrote in message > There are theories:

http://yourmedicalsource.com/library/prostateenlargement/BPH_causes.html#sexhor
Spread deMocracy - 31 Oct 2004 15:15 GMT
ABC...I agree.  But much, much worse is due-diligence medicine.

A  VERY LONG DUE-DILIGENCE MEDICINE STORY, (so don't read this if you are
late for a Cytoscopy): ....A guy visits his G.P. complaining of difficulty
urinating.  G.P.: "bend over...no nodules...take a PSA and blood glucose
test...no, nothing unusual...likely no cancer but your prostate is
enlarged...do you have burning when urinating?..No?  Then likely not
prostatits--[G.P. thinking due-diligence medicine to himself: I really
should massage the prostate and look for white blood cells, but it is such a
hassle so, I won't bother since most GPs and many urologists don't got the
extra mile either.]...Here, try this...It's an Alpha Blocker"...(Several
months pass)...G.P.: "Didn't I see you a few months ago?  Ok, let's add a
DHT inhibitor and titrate your Alpha Blocker so you can pee while the DHT
kicks in"...(Severl months later)...G.P.: "You are back again?  Better pass
the buck, ummmm, I mean, better refer you to a specialist...[GP thinking to
himself: that's the extent of my liability.]"   Urologist: "Here,  lay back
and let me shove this cozy tube up your pecker...Hmmm, no node, bladder is
fine...live with the Alpha Blocker and DHT inhibitor..."  (Several months
later.)   Uro: "You back again?...Prostate is still growing?...better
titrate your DHT blocker...Oh, look, you are growing boobs.  Cool, uh!?  And
you have no sex drive?  Where's your sense of humor?  That'll keep you out
of trouble.   Let's do a blood test...Hmmm, your DHT is still very
high....DHT inhibitor should be working??  You sure you are having trouble
taking a whizz?...Give it more time...(Time)...You back again?...Boobs are
bigger?   Wife is pissed off at ya because you haven't chased her a.s around
the house in a long time?  OK, then only other thing is to operate.  Here,
pick one: TURP is the gold standard, but it has risks, but be a man about
it.  Don't want to risk pissing in your pants while giving presentations to
the company?  You can always try one of the other methods, TUMT, PVP, etc.,
but they have risks, too.  Why all this hassle?  Well, you are getting
older, so, suck it up.  No, there is no other choice.  That's what all the
other doctors like me will offer you, it's called due-diligence medicine...I
do what they do...they do what I do...That's how it works in Canada and the
USA.   What country did you say you were from?  Here in North America, we
don't have to try to find a cure.  Just have to provide you some relief from
the symptoms."  (But, Mr. Cool Cat reads "sci.med.prostate.bph" and is
reading the new discussion thread about "Trying To Treat Causes".)     "Hey
Doc?   What about a complete blood work up?"  Uro: "We did that."   Cool
Cat:  "Naw.  You just looked at my DHT and glucose.  What about the rest of
the stuff?"   Uro: "I don't know what you mean?  We did what any other Uro,
(due-diligience medicine)  would have done."   Cool cat:  "What about my
TSH, Prolactin, Cortisol, DHEAS, Androstenedione, LH/FSH, SHBG, and the rest
of my TESTOs, as a starter?"  Uro:  "Huh?  Dunno what you are talking about.
Besides UROs don't have to do that.   None of my colleagues do that. Hey,
wait a minute.  Are you trying to turn back the clock?  Do I have to remind
you that you are getting older?!   Why don't you just suck it up like the
hundreds and thousands of other BPH-ers are doing?!"  Cool cat: "I just want
all the answers, Doc.   I am not happy that you are doing only what all the
other Uros are doing...I don't want to settle for due-diligence medicine.
I want more than that.   I want the answers, too.   So, if you don't have to
look for the answers, then, please refer me to an ENDOcrinologist so we can
get to the bottom of the DHT mystery."   Uro: "You just don't give up?  Do
you?"  Cool Cat: "No.  I read about this stuff on the newsgroup and I ain't
going away until I get all my answers...."  Endocrinologist  [expressing the
greatest hope of Spread DeMocracy and the reason why he started this
thread]: "Here, take this pill and you won't need all that other stuff."
Cool Cat:" What about side effects?"   Endo: "None."  Cool Cat: "C'mmon Doc.
I didn't just fall off a turnip truck.   Everything has side effects?!"
Endo: "Maybe, but not this.   This simply replaces the (hormone??) that your
body stops making as you get older...Without this hormone to keep everything
in balance, your DHT kick starts your Prostate to grow all over again like
when you were a baby and it will keep on growing until you bring this #@+##
hormone back into balance again. Take this and it will put everything back
into balance for you."   (This story ends as the newsgroup cheers for the
brave and wise Endocrinologist...)

>I am just hoping that we don't get socialized medicine
Peter Fackelmann - 31 Oct 2004 20:53 GMT
and that is testosterone?

<something snipped>

>Endocrinologist: "Here, take this pill and you won't need all
>that other stuff."
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>you bring this #@+## hormone back into balance again. Take this
>and it will put everything back into balance for you."
Spread deMocracy - 31 Oct 2004 23:11 GMT
Sorry, I don't know if it is testosterone, or some variation of it,  that is
the missing clue.  However,  I do know that if one has high testosterone
levels, (including "Free T"), DHT can still be way high and cause BPH.   So,
if one has lots of T and Estradiol is in check what the heck causes prostate
to grow?  No doctors yet have been able to answer.  I'm waiting to meet an
Endo and am hoping this newgroup may help provide some clues that I can take
in with me to the Endo to discuss...
..........................................
"Peter Fackelmann" <PeterFackelmann@gmx.net> wrote in message > and that is
testosterone?

...
Nelson - 31 Oct 2004 17:14 GMT
> I am just hoping that we don't get socialized medicine in.  I think that
> would be the end of research for things like that.

[snip]

Well, I'm not for socialized medicine but it actually might increase
the money for research into the causes of BPH.  My perception is that
under the current (market driven) system there is little or no economic
incentive for organizations to focus on this problem.  In fact, there
is little economic incentive to "cure" anything.  Once X is cured, no
one makes any money on it.  However, developing a pill to treat the
symptoms guarantees a perpetual revenue stream :-)  Do the math.

The whole Medical-Drug-Insurance Complex makes money from _sick_
people, not well people.  You would think the insurance companies, at
least, would have an incentive to keep people well but it seems that
they just react by raising premiums and cutting benefits, so they win
either way- like a stock broker who makes his commission both when you
buy and when you sell.  Whether you lose money or make money is not his
concern.

A cure for BPH would probably cause a depression in the yacht market as
well as the luxury car and house market and a crisis in Urology
departments nationwide.  We can't have that :-)

Identify who has a significant economic incentive to find a cure for
BPH and you might have a chance.  Otherwise, it's TURP City.

Signature

Nelson

Robert E. Yorke - 05 Nov 2004 05:29 GMT
Nelson:

Thank you for your very perceptive comments...

>> I am just hoping that we don't get socialized medicine in.  I think that
>> would be the end of research for things like that.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>Identify who has a significant economic incentive to find a cure for
>BPH and you might have a chance.  Otherwise, it's TURP City.
Brother Bernard Seif, SMC - 21 Nov 2004 22:16 GMT
General observation:  You might consider looking into pharmaceutical grade
marine fish oil.  I have found it personally helpful and have many patients
on it--for a variety of reasons.  If you don't get the right quality, it
will not be helpful, however.  One site for info would be
www.protherainc.com  The very best to you!

>> Is ANYONE trying to find the CAUSE of their DHTs and hence what is
>> CAUSING
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> http://yourmedicalsource.com/library/prostateenlargement/BPH_causes.html#sexhor
 
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