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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate BPH / May 2004Info on post PVP
I have learned a lot from all you folks on this newsgroup, thank you. I am a 51 yr old who has just had the PVP done last week. Large medium lobe and down the middle zapped. The procedure went well and the only real discomfort was the general anthesia caused me a bit of nausea later that afternoon. A little burning the next few days and urgency every 2 hours or so but better flow again. However, about 5 dyas after, I had started to get a strange sensation that wasn't really pain but a hard to explain feeling from, I guess, my prostate area. This sensation only happens at the end of the urination and is close to the feeling you get when you tighten your sphincter but stronger. Now, a few days later it has turned to more a pain then not. When the sensation is particularly intense, I get a little bit of blood and the end of the urination. My Uro said it may be reaction by the prostate (something in latin which I did not remember) and will probably go away. What I would ask the group, has anyone experienced this and how long might it last? Also, does the need to urinate every 2 hours eventually improve as I am told it will? I am up every 1.5 to 2 hours every night which is quite a bit more than the 1 to 2 times before the PVP. I am glad I had the operation and would certainly recommend the PVP procedure over all others from what I experienced and researched. Joe > I have learned a lot from all you folks on this newsgroup, thank you. > I am a 51 yr old who has just had the PVP done last week. Large medium lobe [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > procedure over all others from what I experienced and researched. > Joe I had the same kind of effect you describe it slowly faded over the weeks and was 100% gone by 5 months I am now 10 months post PVP and absolutely delighted with the results and again being able to sleep thru the night .......I did have to retrain my body though ........by staying in bed and ignoring the call .......it took a few days but it worked The only downside is the months I spent on Flomax and Proscar have caused a Hiatus Hernia as a result of the muscle relaxant effect ........so i would caution people not to take Flomax > I had the same kind of effect you describe it slowly faded over the weeks > and was 100% gone by 5 months > I am now 10 months post PVP and absolutely delighted with the results and > again being able to sleep thru the night .......I did have to retrain my > body though ........by staying in bed and ignoring the call .......it took a > few days but it worked It's interesting you say you had to stay in bed and ignore the call. That plus the fact that the work I do is normally urgent and thus I cant get to a toilet as I am driving from one business to another MADE me "train my body" really. I can go from 8:30AM to 4PM without getting near a toilet. By the time I get home, I feel like I could fill a river and I pee for a real long time but that is all I ever did apart from taking Proseren which contains Saw Palmetto. I have been diagnosed for years and am obviously chronic, get the pains everyone is aware of etc. I dont have, thankfully, cancer. So it makes me wonder what can be done with the right motivation. I am not saying it is the answer nor even an alternative for most people but I guess for some it is worth trying. I am, however, one of those people who smoked a packet and a half a day for over 10 years then one day said "I am not going to smoke any longer" and threw the packet away and didnt smoke again. So, maybe it is easier for me to say "No peeing" than some. > The only downside is the months I spent on Flomax and Proscar have caused a > Hiatus Hernia as a result of the muscle relaxant effect ........so i would > caution people not to take Flomax So many damned tablets turn out to be crap these days. Interesting that Saw Palmetto made me feel very sick for weeks until my body got used to it and it took a long while to note a difference but it sure is nice to sit in my recliner of a night evenly instead of ONLY on the right side of my backside! Why right side of...? > From: "Gutbuster" <dont-stare@me.dot> > Newsgroups: sci.med.prostate.bph > Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:15:24 +1000 > Subject: Re: Info on post PVP > ...sure is nice to sit in my > recliner of a night evenly instead of ONLY on the right side of my backside! ....because pain from the prostate was going - and sometimes still does go - into the left side of my backside and into the pelvis at the front. Was like that for many years. Imagine the difficulty when I flew "cattle class" to Hawaii and then on from there to Vancouver on another plane. Except for the break at Hawaii, it was 25 hours of sitting on one side of my arse just about! Luckily I had the forethought to ask for an aisle seat! > Why right side of...? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > ...sure is nice to sit in my > > recliner of a night evenly instead of ONLY on the right side of my backside! Did you ever ask a neurologist about the exact cause of the sensations? Is it possible that the original cause of the problem was the spine, which might even have caused the "prostate problem" ? > From: "Gutbuster" <dont-stare@me.dot> > Newsgroups: sci.med.prostate.bph [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >>> recliner of a night evenly instead of ONLY on the right side of my > backside! No need to because those are classic prostate problems, nothing to do with the spine. > Did you ever ask a neurologist about the exact cause of the sensations? Is > it possible that the original cause of the problem was the spine, which [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >>> recliner of a night evenly instead of ONLY on the right side of my > > backside! Joe and group: This is just another example of why medical advertising needs to be held accountable to reality. Prostate surgery (even PVP) is invasive surgery and can take months to recover from. I had PVP 6 months ago and am now pain free. However, for several months following the surgery I had similar pain......and severe urgency, making my life virtually dysfunctional for a good part of the day. I'm sure your pain and urgency will work itself out, but it could take a lot longer than the "one or two weeks" that Laserscope suggests. Marcus > I have learned a lot from all you folks on this newsgroup, thank you. > I am a 51 yr old who has just had the PVP done last week. Large medium lobe [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > procedure over all others from what I experienced and researched. > Joe > Joe and group: > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > > Marcus you know only too well that you have other health problems that will exacerbate your bodys capacity to heal after any surgury .........its unfair to damm PVP in the way that you do I too had a longer recovery time but the discomfort etc was nothing compared to the BPH problems i encountered beforehand Since the Flomax I took for BPH for a mere 6 months has caused a Hiatus Hernia I am madder than a hornets nest about that discomfort and ensuing problems with all kinds of food that i experience and will have to endure now for life .........ops for HH are extremely dangerous and not undertaken lightly and even then leave one with problems I'm not damning PVP.......however, I am highly critical of their unethical marketing. There are several entries on this group referring to recovery time far beyond that advertised by Laserscope...as a matter of fact, I have pages and pages of documentationof their less than advertised experience, many of which have been curiously deleted from the postings here on this newsgroup.I doubt these patients all had "other health problems." Joe asked what kind of recovery to expect. I give him my experience and a legitimate critique of Laserscope's overly optimistic, self-serving picture of what to expect. Marcus > > Joe and group: > > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > now for life .........ops for HH are extremely dangerous and not undertaken > lightly and even then leave one with problems I had PVP a year ago and stopped light bleeding in three weeks. Like you, I continued with a more or less stinging sensation after voiding. Strong urges to go continued for about three month. All these negative after -effects faded away with time and "mental re-adjustment". If I responded to every sensation in the groin area, I could go every hour and void around 100-200ml, but when busy and distracted, I could hold it three and four hours, depending on water, tea and coffee consumption. Eventually I learned to live with the sensation to go for hours. I believe that if the bladder isn't full, there is no real need to go. My bladder hold up to 700 ml but I usually void 300-400 ml every 3-4 hours. After two or three hours of driving or flying, it need a bit of time to get the flow started, but then it flows nicely at 25- 30 ml/sec. A bit of walking after driving or cramped sitting does wonders to relax the bladder. Fred Henzi ws" <emilyrb@cox.net> wrote in message > I have learned a lot from all you folks on this newsgroup, thank you. > I am a 51 yr old who has just had the PVP done last week. Large medium lobe [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > procedure over all others from what I experienced and researched. > Joe Though I have had no surgical treatment yet (my PVP-capable urologist is not sure it will help), I too have found that when kept busy, I seen to not notice the urges and void less frequently. OTOH, in situations where I'm not mentally or physically preoccupied, travelling by car or plane or sitting at work for example, I find the urge more difficult to avoid. Despite my small prostate size (20 ml according to a TRUS), a median lobe (diagnosed via cystoscope exam) makes voiding difficult if I wait too long and my volume is typically no more than 4-6 ounces. Although a post-void residual check at the uro's office reported zero, I know that is not always the case. The other evening, I waited a little too long (having drank about 16 oz of water during the previous 2 hours.) With difficulty starting and a very weak stream, I produced only 6 oz and didn't feel empty. 15-20 minutes later, I produced another 5 oz with a much better stream and felt good. > I had PVP a year ago and stopped light bleeding in three weeks. Like you, I > continued with a more or less stinging sensation after voiding. Strong urges [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Fred Henzi I have a similar situation but I have PVP scheduled for July if for nothing else to get off the Flomax. Are you on medication? Jim W. > Though I have had no surgical treatment yet (my PVP-capable urologist is not > sure it will help), I too have found that when kept busy, I seen to not [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > > Fred Henzi I have tried saw palmetto & beta sistosterol without effect. Also tried Flowmax and Uroxatrol, also no effect. Latest thing was Detrol LA. Took it for a month but the effects were minimal. I may give it one more try after see my uro next month. Although subjectively it didn't seem to make a difference, I recorded my voiding and fluid intake on 3 different Saturdays and the day while on Detrol showed the best results. > I have a similar situation but I have PVP scheduled for July if for nothing > else to get off the Flomax. Are you on medication? Jim W. [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > > > > > Fred Henzi > I have tried saw palmetto & beta sistosterol without effect. Also tried I have read a report saying that there is no clinical evidence that Saw Palmetto does any good. I also know it did me good. What I suggest to you is check the dose of it that you are getting in whatever it is you are taking. The tablet form I take is called Proseren and I take 2 tablets each morning which is about 1500 grams of the stuff. I was taking 3 but I couldn't stomach it after about a year and had to cut back. I have even gone off them to check how things go and within a week am back to the old pain days. Maybe your dose was too low for you. IMHO the dose varies per person. > > I have tried saw palmetto & beta sistosterol without effect. Also tried > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the old pain days. Maybe your dose was too low for you. IMHO the dose varies > per person. My experience: Saw Palmetto, no help. Beta Sisterol -- helped for about a year. Then I did a PVP. Bill Hale > Despite my small prostate size (20 ml according to a TRUS), a median lobe > (diagnosed via cystoscope exam) makes voiding difficult if I wait too long > and my volume is typically no more than 4-6 ounces. On me, DRE indicated a prostate of 20 ml, a quick ultrasound through the abdomen 90 ml, and an ultrasound through the rectum, 40 ml. Obviously, size determination is rather vague. For 12 years I had progressively worsening voiding. I tried drugs and saw palmetto but improvements were slight and temporary. BPH is a mechanical constriction and, in my humble opinion, only a mechanical intervention would solve it. As an old mechanical engineer, I'm likely totally biased towards mechanical fixes. I just can't accept that a drug can selectively shrink the prostate without affecting other related organs. After a long research period, I had PVP done a year ago. This has solved all my peeing problems and made my retirement enjoyable again. I just came back from three weeks in Europe. There was a two ten hour flight and nine hours of jet lag and a radical change in routine including plenty of espresso and wine. I had no voiding problems whatsoever. I whish all BPH had the same results as I have. Fred Henzi > > Despite my small prostate size (20 ml according to a TRUS), a median lobe > > (diagnosed via cystoscope exam) makes voiding difficult if I wait too long [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > drug can selectively shrink the prostate without affecting other related > organs. I just started proscar 10 days ago and it shrinks other stuff besides the prostate. > After a long research period, I had PVP done a year ago. This has solved > all my peeing problems and made my retirement enjoyable again. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Fred Henzi Liz, Is it shrinking your breasts? Something else? > From: "Liz" <Liz@nospam.com> > Organization: Comcast Online > Newsgroups: sci.med.prostate.bph > Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 18:10:30 GMT > Subject: Re: Info on post PVP > I just started proscar 10 days ago and it shrinks other stuff besides the > prostate. something else > Liz, > Is it shrinking your breasts? Something else? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I just started proscar 10 days ago and it shrinks other stuff besides the > > prostate. The suspense is killing me. Are there two of them? Fred Henzi > something else > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the > > > prostate. No, let me clear up some possible confusion I am not using my real login name. > The suspense is killing me. Are there two of them? > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > the > > > > prostate. But we still don't know what else besides the prostate, that proscar shrunk. Is there a reason that you won't say? > From: "Liz" <Liz@nospam.com> > Organization: Comcast Online [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >>> the >>>>> prostate. Just embarrassment, the two round things and the long thing. Perhaps it is my imagination though. > But we still don't know what else besides the prostate, that proscar shrunk. > Is there a reason that you won't say? [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >>> the > >>>>> prostate. It didn't happen with me or anyone that I've heard of, so it's probably imagination. > From: "Liz" <Liz@nospam.com> > Organization: Comcast Online [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >>>>> the >>>>>>> prostate. I just read this in the NY Post - will probably be in tomorrow's paper. > May 26, 10:13 PM EDT > [quoted text clipped - 114 lines] > > --- Ron Saw a similar newspaper article in the Washington Post yesterday. I remember Gen. Norman Shwarzkoff (sp?) having a PSA < 2 but had a suspicious DRE that led to a biopsy that was positive. He then had a prostatectomy. I believe he was in his 50's when he had it done. My personal belief is that the PSA numbers is most valuable when you look at year over differences. Any increase >1 from last year's number should be considered as a warning. Of course prostatitis could cause a jump much greater than one, so if the increase is greater than one, without any DRE change then the PSA should be done again in 6 to 8 weeks. If the increase stays >1 then a biopsy should be done. Also if the increase is <1, but the DRE indicates a change in the texture of the prostate a biopsy should be done. In my case, and in a number of others that I know, as we get older the PSA value increases. Many doctors think increase is caused by the growth of the prostate as we get older. Again in my case before my PVP last year my PSA was 4.7, growing slowly from 2.3 over 12 years. After the PVP it dropped to 3.1 and was 3.4 last month. The PSA test is just one indicator of the possibility of prostate cancer. We are all different in our make up. Some, like Schwarzkoff, can have prostate cancer with a low PSA and others in this group have said they have had PSA values of 10 with the prostate biopsy being negative. Also the prostate cancers can go from being very slow growers to being aggressive. Only a biopsy can tell the difference. Jack > I just read this in the NY Post - will probably be in tomorrow's paper. > > [quoted text clipped - 114 lines] > > > > --- Jack, My PSA also lowered from each of my 2 PVPs. I've heard that scientists are now studying how to test for the 15% types that get past the test as well as separate out the aggressive types from the very slow growing types of cancer. Ron > From: "Jack" <jrcomer@erols.com> > Newsgroups: sci.med.prostate.bph [quoted text clipped - 200 lines] >>> >>> --- Had PVP seven months ago and my results are pretty much the same as Frederic's including the fading urgency feeling over the first couple of months. Urgency problem is now gone completely. I also agree with his point on prostate obstruction being a mechanical fault best cured by mechanical means (removal). Went the flomax route and got only short term temporary relief. By the way I believe Frederic and I used the same doc (Dr Laube), this guy is super. I am now finally enjoying retirement, something I could not do with the BPH monkey on my back. best of health to all, george > I had PVP a year ago and stopped light bleeding in three weeks. Like you, I > continued with a more or less stinging sensation after voiding. Strong urges [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > procedure over all others from what I experienced and researched. > > Joe |
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