Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate BPH / January 2004
Saw Palmetto: failure, then big success
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Bruce Siegel - 18 Jan 2004 01:41 GMT Hi everyone,
My experience with supplements has brought a surprising and happy change in my life, and may be of interest to some of you out there.
I'm 56 years old, and for the past many years, had been experiencing gradually worsening symptoms of BPH. Up to about 3 weeks ago, I had reached the point where I was getting up to pee about 3 or 4 times a night. And having to make sure to pee before virtually every lesson or two I taught (I'm a piano teacher.)
About a year ago I started taking a product called Nature's Life 800 Prostate Support. It contains saw palmetto and other things as well. I didn't see much change in my symptoms. But I kept taking them month after month because I didn't know what else to do, and because I was afraid things might be even worse if I stopped.
Last September I was absolutely delighted to discovered this newsgroup. Over the next few months I contacted Dr. Laub in Santa Barbara and was tentatively planning to have PVP early in 2004. Though I was delighted to read of the generally excellent results most of you were experiencing, I had mixed feelings about the surgery primarily because of my minimal insurance coverage. I'd have to pay at least $4000 for surgery and related costs.
About 3 weeks ago I talked to a friend about my situation. He takes saw palmetto and is pleased with the results. He asked me how much I was taking, and suggested that I increase my dosage. I said it was worth a try.
Then I noticed that I had been taking 2 capsules a day (for a total of 160mg). The directions suggested 2-4 capsules a day. So I started taking 4 capsules a day. The change was immediate and dramatic! The first night I went from 3 or 4 nightly trips, to 1! I've been keeping accurate records every night since then, and the average is less than 1.5 trips per night.
It's taken a while for me to trust these results, but as of the moment, my plans for PVP are definitely on hold. My stream is fairly small, there's always a short pause or two in the middle, but there's virtually no delay. The main thing is MANY fewer trips to the john. I get a lot less reading done in the bathroom these days and nights.
Now you may ask why I never tried increasing the dosage before. For one thing, the tablets aren't cheap. I spend about $1.70 a day now for 4 of them. But more than that, the truth is, I have very little experience taking medications etc., and very little confidence in them. The only drug in my house is aspirin, and I use that once or twice a year. I was taking the Nature's Life for a year or more, but truth to tell, I never really expected much from it or any other drug, and I have never used any other medication on a regular basis in my entire adult life. (I haven't had a primary care physician either for at least 10 years now.)
Thanks to all of you for your contributions to this great newsgroup! I vowed that I would make my own contribution when I had something real to say, but I didn't think that would be til after my own PVP. I'm pleasantly surprised, to say the least. I hope my story is of some help to one or two of you.
I'm including the ingredients in my supplement below. When this bottle runs out, I'm going to try taking saw palmetto alone, which is cheaper, and see if that works as well.
Bruce ---------------
Nature's Life 800 Prostate Support
in 2 softgels: zinc 15mg copper 1mg saw palmetto 160mg stinging nettle 150mg pygeum bark extract 50 mg beta sitosterol 10mg
Mel Smith - 18 Jan 2004 04:58 GMT Bruce,
About the ingredients in your 'Nature's Life 800 Prostate Support':
I heard a radio advertisement 2 weeks ago (in Phoenix, Arizona). It was one of those Saturday morning long-lasting radio infomercials that *sound* scientific and un-biased but are far from it ! The interview plays right into the hands of the developer who is on the phone a a 'call-in'.
Anyway, they were advertising a product called Beta-Prostate as a 'preventer' of prostate cancer. The 'developer' says that *his* product contains 1000 times the dosage of beta sitosterol *plus* selenium and zinc. He says that taking his product will have positive results in 30 days (yeeehh right !).
Also, he also said that this would make you a better man *and* prevent prostate cancer.
Boy ! I'm gonna go and get me somathatshit ! ( *NOT*)
Anyway, I guess my point is that there are certain common ingredients in these two OTC formulations. Apparently, beta-sit is the most important -- but who knows ?
-Mel Smith
Jack - 18 Jan 2004 16:38 GMT > Then I noticed that I had been taking 2 capsules a day (for a total of > 160mg). The directions suggested 2-4 capsules a day. So I started taking 4 > capsules a day. The change was immediate and dramatic! The first night I > went from 3 or 4 nightly trips, to 1! I've been keeping accurate records > every night since then, and the average is less than 1.5 trips per night. To verify that the change in dosage was the cause, I would suggest you go back to your previous dosage and see if the previous symptoms recur. My experience has been that symptoms progress and regress with no apparent rhyme or reason. It is easy to attribute it to whatever changed last :-)
 Signature Jack
Omer - 18 Jan 2004 19:30 GMT Test. Please disreguard.........
> > Then I noticed that I had been taking 2 capsules a day (for a total of > > 160mg). The directions suggested 2-4 capsules a day. So I started taking 4 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > apparent rhyme or reason. It is easy to attribute it to whatever > changed last :-) Bruce Siegel - 18 Jan 2004 20:30 GMT > To verify that the change in dosage was the cause, I would suggest you > go back to your previous dosage and see if the previous symptoms recur. > My experience has been that symptoms progress and regress with no > apparent rhyme or reason. It is easy to attribute it to whatever > changed last :-) You've got a good point there, Jack, but I think I'll wait a while to try that particular experiment. I'm really enjoying my current state, and am hesitant to mess with a good thing. I'd like to give my bladder a little rest! And the longer this "remission" lasts, the stronger the evidence for a direct correlation with my supplement.
Bruce
Jack - 19 Jan 2004 11:05 GMT >> To verify that the change in dosage was the cause, I would suggest you >> go back to your previous dosage and see if the previous symptoms recur. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > rest! And the longer this "remission" lasts, the stronger the evidence for a > direct correlation with my supplement. Hey, I can relate to that :-) If ain't broke, don't fix it :-)
Never the less, you might consider:
- If you go back to your previous regimen and the symptoms don't recur, you can avoid the expense and side effects of the extra medicine... in fact, maybe you can eliminate it all together.
- The longer you wait, the more other conditions change, eg your bladder muscles change, so you can have less confidence in the results.
- If it is not reproducible, it is unlikely the medication was the cause.
This whole topic is riddled with nostrums, home-remedies, phases of the moon, etc. If you can't reproduce the change, it is no more than "wearing your lucky socks" :-)
FYI, I experience wide swings that I have been unable to attribute to anything with the exception of a reproducible correlation with carbohydrate intake (low carbohydrate = more frequency and urgency).
 Signature Jack
Bruce Siegel - 19 Jan 2004 18:34 GMT Hi Jack,
OK, you've talked me into experimenting. But here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna keep taking the supplements til my current bottle runs out, about 15 days. That'll help me to determine if I'm really experiencing a stable "cure" at the moment. And to fully enjoy it.
Then, instead of stopping altogether, I'm gonna start using a bottle of straight saw palmetto I've already bought. That'll provide some more clues as to what's happening, and to see if the cheaper supplement is effective.
Then, when that runs out, if I'm still "cured," I'll stop all supplements and see what happens.
> you can avoid the expense and side effects of the extra medicine I'm not seeing any side effects, so I'm more motivated by the expense factor. What side effects are you referring to?
Bruce
> Hey, I can relate to that :-) If ain't broke, don't fix it :-) > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > anything with the exception of a reproducible correlation with > carbohydrate intake (low carbohydrate = more frequency and urgency). Jack - 20 Jan 2004 11:45 GMT >> you can avoid the expense and side effects of the extra medicine > > I'm not seeing any side effects, so I'm more motivated by the expense > factor. What side effects are you referring to? Bruce,
You said
> About a year ago I started taking a product called Nature's Life 800 > Prostate Support. It contains saw palmetto and other things as well. I don't like taking medicines of any kind, especiallly "other things"
:-) Call me paranoid :-)
 Signature Jack
Eyeball Kid - 20 Jan 2004 14:38 GMT > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > pygeum bark extract 50 mg > beta sitosterol 10mg I've been taking Saw Palmetto, sometimes with Pygeum, for nearly 10 years now, with moderate to good success. Last year, I quit for about 2 to 3 months. One of my symptoms, sharp discomfort in the bladder area and an urgency to pee, was coming back. I got back on the remedy and now the symptoms have completely disappeared. Nighttime pee runs are down to once a night at a max.
That's all the proof I need to keep using the stuff.
E. K.
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