Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate BPH / January 2004
Overactive Bladder:
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Dean - 20 Dec 2003 18:55 GMT I would like to post my story on Bph and PVP but I'm 10 weeks past PVP surgery and having a problem. I still have urgency and frequency, about six times during the day and can be up to ten times at night ,last night it was five times. I think it is strictly a overactive bladder problem. I never get more than about 150 cc's in my bladder before I have to go ,sometimes a lot less. I also have episodes of involuntary voidings about once or twice a week. My Uro has put me on Detrol LA which doesn't seem to work for me due to the side effects. My question is to the group, has anyone had this same problem ten weeks after PVP ? I would greatly appreciate any information I can get from the group that would help me fix this problem. Hoping to get my bladder problem fixed and get back to some normalcy. Then I'll write my story on the horror of Bph. Thanks Dean,
Terry - 21 Dec 2003 00:28 GMT > I would like to post my story on Bph and PVP but I'm 10 weeks past PVP > surgery and having a problem. I still have urgency and frequency, about six [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Hoping to get my bladder problem fixed and get back to some normalcy. > Then I'll write my story on the horror of Bph. Thanks Dean, Dean:
I'm 11 weeks post PVP and have concluded also that a big part of my woes has to do with the bladder. Until the last two weeks I had not made as much progress as I had expected - - I had a few accidents and had developed really strong urgency problems. I discussed this with my Uro and he put me on detrol, which, along with Kegel exercises, which I decided to do all by myself, seems to be working. I have a few nasty side effects, but find that my average output is improving (between 8 and 12 ounces), with a corresponding reduction in trips to the head. I am also taking an antibiotic just in case. I think we all have to be patient and not get carried away with the PVP hype, For most of us, at least, it isn't an overnight cure. I have faith that it works, but in a slower mode than we hope for. Good luck.
Terry
Dean - 21 Dec 2003 00:54 GMT Terry , What kind of nasty side effects are you talking about? Dean
> > I would like to post my story on Bph and PVP but I'm 10 weeks past PVP > > surgery and having a problem. I still have urgency and frequency, about six [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Terry Magna - 21 Dec 2003 09:38 GMT Dean & Terry, How do these post PVP frequency/urgency problems compare with pre PVP?
Yes, what are these side effects? Regards Magna.
Dean - 21 Dec 2003 22:41 GMT Hi Magna, They are a lot worse post PVP but the last couple of days they seem to have improved some what. I don't know if this is temporarily or will it continue, last night I slept for three hours and fifteen minutes before waking to void, I don't know when was the last time that I slept that long without the urge to urinate, hopefully it will continue. I let you know a little later on. Dean,
> Dean & Terry, How do these post PVP frequency/urgency problems compare > with pre PVP? > > Yes, what are these side effects? Regards Magna. Gary Alexander - 21 Dec 2003 21:00 GMT > I would like to post my story on Bph and PVP but I'm 10 weeks past PVP > surgery and having a problem. I still have urgency and frequency, about six [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > less. I also have episodes of involuntary voidings about once or twice a > week. Thanks Dean Sounds awful Dean. And worrying as I'm moving towards a PVP with Tim Larner in Brighton, thanks to this group.
Some tricks I've found, may be obvious to you, but just in case... When I get up at night it is always urgent and I'm lucky if I can get from my bed to the toilet without some leakage. When I finish I still feel very full. I don't go straight back to bed but wait around for 5 or 10 minutes, and can then usually pee again. (It may come slowly and I may have to consciously relax to allow it to happen.) This makes a lot of difference to the length of my sleeps between wakenings. Similarly during the day, if I pee and feel very incomplete, I wait a little while and go again, even though I don't feel the need. This gives my bladder a chance to relax a little.
Other things which I find helpful are long strenuous walks on rough ground. This does wonders for all the muscles around the lower abdomen. Also yoga. Try finding a sympathetic yoga teacher and ask for exercises which are specifically for that region.
Hope this helps. Please keep us posted on developments.
Regards, Gary
Tom - 21 Dec 2003 22:55 GMT Gary
I'm due to have a PVP on the 08/01/04 with Mr Jan Nawrocki in at the Princess Royal hospital in Haywards Heath. Mine is being done via the NHS. Which hospital exactly are you being done? That doesn't sound right, but you know what I mean. :-) What date are you getting your PVP?
All the best
Tom P
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> > I would like to post my story on Bph and PVP but I'm 10 weeks past PVP > > surgery and having a problem. I still have urgency and frequency, about six [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Regards, > Gary Dean - 23 Dec 2003 02:45 GMT Hi Tom, I'm eleven weeks past PVP. I had my PVP on Oct. 9 of last year. I hope yours is a great success. The jury is still out on mine however it seems as if I have noticed some improvement the last couple of days , hard to say for sure though. Dean,
> Gary > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Regards, > > Gary Irv - 22 Dec 2003 16:10 GMT I am 5 and1/2 months post PVP. I also suffered from urgency and frequency after PVP. In fact several weeks after the problem got much worse than it was before PVP. However with time the problem has improved signicantly. I tried Detrol LA also and it did little for me. I also tried oxybutinin which did not work. Time works. I now can go for an hour or two without the urge. My doctor said to expect at least 6 to 18 months before the bladder regains its normal function. I am 78 years old and had BPH for ten years. Irv
> I would like to post my story on Bph and PVP but I'm 10 weeks past PVP > surgery and having a problem. I still have urgency and frequency, about six [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Hoping to get my bladder problem fixed and get back to some normalcy. > Then I'll write my story on the horror of Bph. Thanks Dean, Terry - 23 Dec 2003 13:56 GMT Just a couple of comments. One thing for sure is that the PVP has greatly increased my rate of flow. When I have to go now, I really go! It may be more freqently than I wish, but it really is gratifying. I read somewhere that a normal flow rate for guys over 60 is the ability to fill a 7 ounce cup in 15 seconds or less. I can now do it in half that time. A second thing is that I'm finding that Kegel exercises help in improving control over the sudden urges. I just do 50 simple clenches 3 or 4 times a day. Finally, I'm trying to stretch out the bladder by drinking a lot of water in mid-afternoon (4 glasses or so) and then trying to hold off on urinating as long as possible. As a geezer who doesn't have to work, I can do this conveniently. By bedtime, I've eliminated most of the fluid and only have to get up one or two times. I doubt that most uros would recommend this, but it may be working for me. On the other hand, maybe any improvement in symptoms are just be a result of the normal healing process. Even if so, I feel the need to be doing something to help things along.
In response to an earlier question, Detrol made me jittery, a little dizzy sometimes, and gave me occasional heartburn. Again, I have no idea if it was helping so I stopped taking it two days ago to see if conditions worsened. I'll let you know what, if anything, I learn.
Good luck and Merry Christmas to all.
Terry
Dean - 23 Dec 2003 17:28 GMT Hi Terry, Thanks Terry,let me know about the Detrol. I'm still trying to get up the nerve to start taking it. I guess I will start taking it after Christmas and start out taking four mg's at nighttime, my Uro insists on me doing this but if I have this retention side effect I won't be long about quitting it." Merry Christmas to you and your family and everyone in the group"
> Just a couple of comments. One thing for sure is that the PVP has > greatly increased my rate of flow. When I have to go now, I really [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Terry TheDazz729 - 01 Jan 2004 18:22 GMT Hi Guy's and Happy New Year to all!
I am four weeks post PVP and I am still experiencing some incontenence. That is to say that I leak urine. This has required me to wear absorbant pads. I've been told that time will help control the leakage along with Kegel exercises. My leakage rate has improved in the last week however. Hopefully I will be back to normal, time will tell.
Anyone else out there experienced this?
Al
Dean - 02 Jan 2004 00:38 GMT Al I have found that PVP is not a quick fix for everyone, I to had overactive bladder and had episodes of involuntary voidings. It seems to me that for a lot of us it takes up to three months to heal and get over the incontinence, at least that's the way it was for me. I'm now twelve weeks past PVP and just now starting to get back to normal.The bladder healing takes time,depending on how much damage has been done by BPH. Don't know if it is true or not but I've heard it can take up to 18 months. Dean,
> Hi Guy's and Happy New Year to all! > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Al Magna - 11 Jan 2004 21:04 GMT Gary,
When are you having the op in Haywards heath.
Tom
Hope your's went well, will you report your experience? The more UK info on this Group the better!
Regards magna
Gary Alexander - 12 Jan 2004 10:31 GMT > Gary, > > When are you having the op in Haywards heath.
> Regards magna I'm having my PVP with Tim Larner on 24th February. He has told me that it will take some time for my bladder to get back to normal, as people on this group report. I'd like Terry to keep us up to date with his progress on Kegel exercises and stretching the bladder in the afternoon.
I've been doing the Kegel exercise too, in a version shown to me by a Yoga teacher. I only do it about 5 times, but hold it for about 30 seconds while holding my breath, very different from Terry's report of 50 times, 3 or 4 times a day. Which is better? Any comments?
I sometimes have severe urgency problems, and have had spells when I've had to wear panty liners (so embarrasing!). I've got to the point where a small amount of urine in my pants doesn't seem too bad. I carry a spare pair for those rare occaisions when it is worse. But mostly, urgency isn't a problem. I don't understand why it changes.
Last September I was in Portugal for a month, camping and helping to build a straw bale house. I was working in the hot sun, more physically strenuously than I ever have in my life, sweating profusely and drinking huge amounts of water. (And loving every minute of it.) One result was that I slept through the night most nights, something I haven't done in years. So one conclusion is that serious exercise with sweating and drinking water is important for BPH. Also, although I am always bursting when I wake up (and was then too), my first morning pee was far less than the total I pass when I get up several times. So what is going on? Does the depth of your sleep affect the amount of urine produced? Perhaps if we could get back into sleeping really well our kidneys would slow down and ease all the nighttime symptoms. Does anyone know about this?
Regards, Gary
Magna - 12 Jan 2004 19:53 GMT Gary,
I've certainly noticed that if I sweat a lot, at the gym or if doing manual work or if it's hot then I drink a lot of water but don't pee so much.
Also if I sleep really deeply then I don't wake to pee. If I have a disturbed night for whatever reason (eg jet lag, wife not sleeping well, too hot/cold, noise outside) then I get up to pee more often. It's almost that If I sleep well I don't need to pee but If I'm restless then I pee because I'm awake more of the time. Some of it is "as I'm awake then I may as well pee so I don't have to later on if I fall asleep."
Complex thing this!!
BTW Gary How old are you (I'm late 50's)
Magna
Lee M. - 12 Jan 2004 22:26 GMT I have similar experience. When I'm sleeping soundly I won't get up until 4 or 5 am. If I'm not, it will be 1 or 2 (I typically go to bed between 10 and 11.)
> Gary, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Magna Gary Alexander - 13 Jan 2004 14:29 GMT magna149@hotmail.com (Magna) wrote in message news:
> Also if I sleep really deeply then I don't wake to pee. If I have a > disturbed night for whatever reason (eg jet lag, wife not sleeping [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "as I'm awake then I may as well pee so I don't have to later on if I > fall asleep." Yes, I find this too.
> BTW Gary How old are you (I'm late 50's) I'm coming up 61.
> Magna By the way, I personally won't try stretching my bladder by drinking a lot, at least not soon after my PVP. My understanding of the situation is that my bladder is so stretched and stressed from not being able to pass urine easily that it has lost its flexibility and control. Anytime I pee and feel that I am still full I wait 10 or 15 minutes and then go again (even at night). I want my bladder to be less stretched. After the PVP, when peeing is easier, I think the most important thing is to let the bladder relax and get back to normal. Stretching it at that stage might be counterproductive. Does anyone know more about this?
Gary
Magna - 17 Jan 2004 15:12 GMT Have a look at this site for a fairly indepth look at bladder function:
http://www.sghurol.demon.co.uk/urod/index.htm
Gary Alexander - 17 Jan 2004 22:23 GMT > Have a look at this site for a fairly indepth look at bladder function: > > http://www.sghurol.demon.co.uk/urod/index.htm Thanks Magna, Yes, I am really interested in understanding what is going on for me, and I'm learning fast. This group is a great help in that. I did go to the site you suggested and started working my way through it. It was quite hard going, but it had a link to another site which I think is much better. That is: http://www.life-tech.com:80/uro/urolib/ .
I've started that one and will carry on. I'll report back any insights it gives me. And I would appreciate hearing from anyone else on this list who can provide us with insights into how the bladder works for men with BPH and how to handle it.
Yours, Gary
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