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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate BPH / October 2008How much Saw Palmetto is enough ?
I've just discovered this forum. I'd like to ask two questions. I'm 66 and have BPH since 2004. My case doesn't seem to be too severe so far. But it is uncomfortable and sometimes embarrassing. I have been taking Saw Palmetto for almost 5 years. I began with the 60 mg extract capsules. I took one a day for three years and am now taking one of the 160 mg capsules daily. Could someone tell me whether that dosage seems about right. I think I may need to increase it. My condition is erratic. Sometimes I am OK for a two weeks and then I have trouble for a week. The other question is about antihistamines. I have a very bad sinus condition. I know that over the counter sprays are bad. Has anybody had any experience with Flonase or Nasacort ? Or anything that helps stuffiness that doesn't affect urinating ? >I've just discovered this forum. I'd like to ask two questions. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >increase it. My condition is erratic. Sometimes I am OK for a two >weeks and then I have trouble for a week. Lots of people use saw palmetto and think it is helping. I used it for several years and it probably did not help me at all. Four years ago my uro put me on Flomax and Proscar because the condition had worsened despite years of taking saw. Also, a study came out a year or two ago that showed saw palmetto did not help the subjects of the study. The subjects had (IIRC) more advanced BPH symptoms... so some think it did not fairly consider those with milder symptoms. Your mileage may vary. Point is, saw will apparently not avoid the inevitable, namely the need for more agressive treatment. Ed >>I've just discovered this forum. I'd like to ask two questions. >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >Your mileage may vary. Point is, saw will apparently not avoid the >inevitable, namely the need for more agressive treatment. That's what I figured. But I'm already taking Lipitor and I hate to take any more drugs than I have to. I suppose I'll have to ask for some Flomax before long. Thanks. F. C. <None@none.com> wrote in news:mrv4f4h9e6vjsog6s4gksc9fqq855ta6cu@ 4ax.com: > I've just discovered this forum. I'd like to ask two questions. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > increase it. My condition is erratic. Sometimes I am OK for a two > weeks and then I have trouble for a week. I take two 80 mg. standardized extract caps a day. I'm not sure whether they help or not. It's hard to tell. I still get up sometimes once a night, sometimes five or six times. I live with it. I usually go back to sleep quickly. > The other question is about antihistamines. I have a very bad sinus > condition. I know that over the counter sprays are bad. Has > anybody had any experience with Flonase or Nasacort ? Or anything > that helps stuffiness that doesn't affect urinating ? I use the saline nasal spray. Many brands including generic. Not as good as anti-histamin but better than nothing.  Signature"When you choose the lesser of two evils, always remember that it is still an evil." - Max Lerner >F. C. <None@none.com> wrote in news:mrv4f4h9e6vjsog6s4gksc9fqq855ta6cu@ >4ax.com: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >night, sometimes five or six times. I live with it. I usually go back to >sleep quickly. I'm the same way. I go awhile with no problems and then I'll have a few nights of getting up four times. >> The other question is about antihistamines. I have a very bad sinus >> condition. I know that over the counter sprays are bad. Has [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I use the saline nasal spray. Many brands including generic. Not as good >as anti-histamin but better than nothing. Thanks. I'm using the saline. I can't decide which is worse. Not breathing or not peeing ;> If it weren't for Breath Rites, I be in a worse mess. >>F. C. <None@none.com> wrote in news:mrv4f4h9e6vjsog6s4gksc9fqq855ta6cu@ >>4ax.com: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >I'm the same way. I go awhile with no problems and then I'll have a >few nights of getting up four times. Think a bit about what you might be eating or drinking that might make things get worse. Coffee and dark chocolate (which I love) give me trouble at night. Now I drink only decaf, and eat only very small amounts of chocolate. Also for some reason travelling west (but not east) a couple of time zones gives me trouble at night for a couple of nights. If I expect problems, I sometimes double my Flomax for a short time to when things get back to normal. Ed >>>F. C. <None@none.com> wrote in news:mrv4f4h9e6vjsog6s4gksc9fqq855ta6cu@ >>>4ax.com: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >Ed I'm a pretty careful eater already. I have had high cholesterol for 10 years and I watch things. I also gave up on caffeine about 10 years ago. It is amazing how much you can learn about your own body if you just pay attention. For instance, It's only recently that I realized there was a link between being constipated and having urinary problems. >It is amazing how much you can learn about your own body if you just >pay attention. For instance, It's only recently that I realized >there was a link between being constipated and having urinary >problems. Well, that's a new one on me! Ed >>It is amazing how much you can learn about your own body if you just >>pay attention. For instance, It's only recently that I realized [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Ed I was having a bad time a few weeks back. I begin to wonder if being constipated could help aggravate the problem. I went to google and searched "enlarged prostate" + "bowel movement". At this web page : http://www.ljblgb.com/ I found this : "...When I go to bed without having had a bowel movement that day, I begin worrying that the next day I might be unable to urinate and have to rush to a hospital emergency room to have a catheter (thin flexible tube) threaded through my penis and into my bladder to drain my bladder....' The more I think about it -- it seems only natural because all of that stuff is down there together. Since then I have been drinking a glass of prune juice each morning to keep stools soft. Hopefully. >>>It is amazing how much you can learn about your own body if you just >>>pay attention. For instance, It's only recently that I realized [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >that stuff is down there together. Since then I have been drinking a >glass of prune juice each morning to keep stools soft. Hopefully. Okay, makes sense. Ed >F. C. <None@none.com> wrote in news:mrv4f4h9e6vjsog6s4gksc9fqq855ta6cu@ <snip> >> The other question is about antihistamines. I have a very bad sinus >> condition. I know that over the counter sprays are bad. Has [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I use the saline nasal spray. Many brands including generic. Not as good >as anti-histamin but better than nothing. I meant to add a thought to this. I use saline spray but I also use campo phenique. It seems to me the spray breaks up congestion, but the campo -- lightly dabbed into the nostril -- makes your head clearer for longer. I don't think campo is bad for bph, but I could be wrong. >>F. C. <None@none.com> wrote in news:mrv4f4h9e6vjsog6s4gksc9fqq855ta6cu@ > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >nostril -- makes your head clearer for longer. I don't think campo >is bad for bph, but I could be wrong. I was just reading the directions for campo phenique. It says not for internal use. I had not read that. I have not been using it internally, but simply putting a touch below the nostril on the upper lip. But I suppose I had best stop doing that. The thing I have done to get the most relief is when I bought a steam style humidifier. It heats the water and releases steam into the air. I put it in a bathroom and after five minutes -- my head is much clearer. >>> F. C. <None@none.com> wrote in news:mrv4f4h9e6vjsog6s4gksc9fqq855ta6cu@ >> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > air. I put it in a bathroom and after five minutes -- my head is much > clearer. Was having the same prostate issue with nasal sprays. What's not said here is which sinus and the nature of the problem. Mine, for nearly 30 years was repetitive infection. Occasionally arrested by irrigating with an antibiotic solution; but, it would always return. -- The Oto guys found a minor septum deviation and an undersized opening into the sinus but ruled that out. Finally, an X-Ray showed a tooth-root penetrated into the cavity and there was communication between the gum tissue and the sinus cavity. Biggest effort was unsnarling the insurance issues. Dental insurance said it was a sinus problem and the Med carrier said it was a dental matter. Finally the med people paid for oral surgery -- removed the tooth and closed the fistula between the sinus and mouth. I paid most of the freight for two crowns and a bridge. Problem solved. ...lmac >>>> F. C. <None@none.com> wrote in news:mrv4f4h9e6vjsog6s4gksc9fqq855ta6cu@ >>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > >...lmac That was a heck of an experience, but It's better than having the sinus trouble. People who have never had it bad don't understand how anything non-fatal can be so bad. I use to do alright when I could use anti-histamins. But it is now a terrible affliction. I'm setting up an appointment to see an ENT doctor in a couple of months. > >>>> F. C. <N...@none.com> wrote in news:mrv4f4h9e6vjsog6s4gksc9fqq855ta6cu@ > >>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I tried all kinds of things like Saw and Flomax. Tried the Microwave with no improvement Finally had PVP a couple years ago. Very satisified. As for the Lipitor, I was on Zocor and Vytorin for several years. Last month my CPK went high so I can't take that stuff anymore!! Will have to try diet (Fish Oil?) to control the Cholesterol. >>>>>> F. C. <N...@none.com> wrote in news:mrv4f4h9e6vjsog6s4gksc9fqq855ta6cu@ >>>>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > Last month my CPK went high so I can't take that stuff anymore!! Will > have to try diet (Fish Oil?) to control the Cholesterol. Not something to mess with. About 15 years ago we had a family friend -- statin user die of heart failure during a trip to Baja. He was way down the peninsula and they couldn't get him back to the U.S. in time to save him. Autopsy showed cause of death as general muscle breakdown including the heart. My doc starting doing a liver panel every three months on all his statin users. When my CPK went up, they took me off statins and he put me on Cholestyramine (a bile capture agent) which got the cholesterol down but caused GERD. Tried both purple pills then found Zantac as best for GERD caused by bile capture. Switched health plans and got a new doc who's had me on Niaspan for over a dozen years. I take 4000mg at bedtime. If cholesterol creeps upward we raise it to 6000mg for a couple of months and recheck. No liver issues with Niaspan -- bit of skin flushing after I dose but taking a baby Aspirin suppresses that. Total cholesterol=175 HDL=60 LDL=18. I eat a Big Mac every couple of weeks to keep the LDL from dropping to zero. Bod needs a little of that stuff to produce Testosterone! 8-) Suggest you ask your doc about Niacin therapy otherwise ask about a bile capture agent like Cholestyramine. Some dentists and docs are unaware that Cholestyramine eats at tooth enamel. A Water- pick plus a floride rinse may help with that. Best of luck & HTH. ...larry > >>>>>> F. C. <N...@none.com> wrote in news:mrv4f4h9e6vjsog6s4gksc9fqq855ta6cu@ > >>>>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Thans will check out the Niaspan. It was a bit of a shock when I began to read about the dangers of the CPK levels. Only item I had noted was about muscle pains might indicate a rare serious problem. After quitting the statin I am most certain I have more energy. I use water pik for cleaning my sinus too. He now sells his own version of the pik: http://www.hydromedonline.com/hp.html?referrer=google_hma2&gclid=CLvcwc6IvpYCFRJ xxwodxAJyyQ Think it might be good to clean out bph too?:-). (I am afraid to try). > > >>>>>> F. C. <N...@none.com> wrote in news:mrv4f4h9e6vjsog6s4gksc9fqq855ta6cu@ > > >>>>> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 114 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I looked up Niaspan and see that it carries the same CPK warning. http://www.rxlist.com/niaspan-drug.htm#wcp >>>>>>> F. C. <N...@none.com> wrote in >>>>>>> news:mrv4f4h9e6vjsog6s4gksc9fqq855ta6cu@ [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > > Best of luck & HTH. ...larry Did you type Niacin for Niaspan? Derek ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- >>>>>>>> F. C. <N...@none.com> wrote in >>>>>>>> news:mrv4f4h9e6vjsog6s4gksc9fqq855ta6cu@ [quoted text clipped - 99 lines] > Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road > ----------------- No, not a typo. Many people are on straight Niacin therapy. There are multiple "time release" compounds of Niacin. Niaspan is one. When I started on Niacin I was taking 8000mg / day, split into three doses. My doc switched me to Niaspan and was able to cut the dose in half and take the whole 4000mg at night. Night works -- swallow a baby Aspirin 30 minutes before the Niacin and that suppresses the skin flush. While the doses of time-release are smaller, the big advantage is to the drug company. They patent the time-release versions and charge lots more $$$ for a "patented" med. KOS first made Niaspan. Then it was bought by Pfizer and it moved up a tier on my co-pay sked. Regarding liver panels. I'm now tested at 6 month intervals and over the decade have not had any spikes -- still the hazard is there. The wise doctor will probably start out with monthly or quarterly tests when putting a "suspect" patient on Niacin. Getting dead isn't a good thing! If Niacin isn't your med there's always Cholestyramine, Colestipol or Colestid. Not the nicest meds in the world but better than having coronary, penis or other vascular issues. ...lmac >> Did you type Niacin for Niaspan? >> Derek ----------------- [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > ...lmac A very old doctor I had about 40 years ago prescribed Niacin when he mistakenly decided that I had Intermittent Claudication. Came across this link to Niacin http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_niacin.html Derek. ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- >>> Did you type Niacin for Niaspan? >>> Derek ----------------- [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road > ----------------- Interesting post. My ability to drink more than two glasses of wine without falling asleep isn't there anymore -- might be part of the tryptophan connection that the author addressed. After about a dozen years on Niacin I can vouch for it boosting HDL and keeping Tot. Cholesterol & Triglycerides way down. Advertised percentage of improvement in most statin ads is around 15-25%. I think that Niaspan yielded about 30-35% improvement for me. The arthritis notes were also interesting. I seem to be able to sustain serious arthritis without pain. I can't support that it counters cancer though. I've had chronic recurrence of skin cancers (both basal and squamous) over the last seven years. Restoring depressed levels of Vitamin D and Calcium seemed to help slow or prevent recurrence of several skin cancers removed by surgery last year. OTOH, maybe we just finally got ahead of the situation. tks for making the post ....lmac VERY interesting article, Derek; thanks so much for posting it.... Snipped >A very old doctor I had about 40 years ago prescribed Niacin when he >mistakenly decided that I had Intermittent Claudication. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road >----------------- I remember at the time the flushing effect of Niacin but did not know then that a baby aspirin would counteract the effect............... now we are being told that baby aspirin should be avoided particularly by diabetics unless we have already had a heart attack! http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/nhshealth/Aspirin-use-in-people-with.4606141.jp Derek. > VERY interesting article, Derek; thanks so much for posting it.... > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >>Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road >>----------------- ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- From: None@none.com (F. C.) I've just discovered this forum. I'd like to ask two questions. I'm 66 and have BPH since 2004. My case doesn't seem to be too severe so far. But it is uncomfortable and sometimes embarrassing. I have been taking Saw Palmetto for almost 5 years. I began with the 60 mg extract capsules. I took one a day for three years and am now taking one of the 160 mg capsules daily. Could someone tell me whether that dosage seems about right. I think I may need to increase it. My condition is erratic. Sometimes I am OK for a two weeks and then I have trouble for a week. ===> saw palmetto contains a natural form of estrogen. saw palmetto has its good points. but my point would be to be careful because it just relieves the symptoms of the real cause. for example, saw palmetto will cause the psa number to be lower than it truly is. more comments listed below.... ----- The other question is about antihistamines. I have a very bad sinus condition. I know that over the counter sprays are bad. Has anybody had any experience with Flonase or Nasacort ? Or anything that helps stuffiness that doesn't affect urinating ? ===> sounds like the prostate gland is starting to give more trouble. as it continues to enlarge, one might find that it will push into the floor of the bladder that causes a pool to form and you will hold back the urine and not be able to get your bladder empty each time. this in turn causes two problems. 1. more frequent trips to the bathroom. 2. urinary track infections my prostate was large enough to hold between 30 to 50 cc back each time i voided. my suggestion is to see a urologist and find out what the real cause is, that is producing the symptoms that you are experiencing. hope this information helps... ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc >From: None@none.com (F. C.) > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >my suggestion is to see a urologist and find out what the real cause is, >that is producing the symptoms that you are experiencing. Thanks, but I have already seen one here in Atlanta. I'm not scheduled to see him until December and I was more interested in what people who have the problem think. >hope this information helps... > >~ curtis It does. Thanks Curtis. my suggestion is to see a urologist and find out what the real cause is, that is producing the symptoms that you are experiencing. Thanks, but I have already seen one here in Atlanta. I'm not scheduled to see him until December and I was more interested in what people who have the problem think. ====> have you had the ultra-sound done on your bladder for urine retention? it's quick, painless and simple and while i had mine done at the urology dept at the hospital, i i believe it can be done at the doctor's office. this will give you some idea if the prostate is pushing into the floor of the bladder and causing some of those extra trips to the bathroom. the whole concept is to give you more information and then you able to make a better decision on which way to go as far as treating this condition. now, here's some more information that isn't discuss... are you aware of prostate stones??? they are very common in men over the age of 50. 100% of the men have them by the age of 80. do a search on the web and read about them. you are in the age group that is feeling the effects of them. what i'm saying is that there could be more factors into play than just the BPH. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc >my suggestion is to see a urologist and find out what the real cause is, >that is producing the symptoms that you are experiencing. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." >http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc No, I had never heard of stones. It's a scary thought. > my suggestion is to see a urologist and find out what the real cause is, > that is producing the symptoms that you are experiencing. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc 12-15 years ago someone, in this group, posted that saw is effective for most lateral lobe enlargements but less effective for medial lobe enlargements. Uro told me that mine was left-lateral. Saw did work for about 10 years (1988-1998). You might 'check the shape' of things. As far as dosage is concerned: I started at two soft-gel caps a day. About 1992 I increased that to three each day until I was switched to Hytrin in 1998. I assume those were each the same dose as in today's product, 160mg. I'm again playing with saw as an augment to Hytrin. PriCare Phys OK'ed it. Seems to have an effect but it's too early to judge results. One other note: A friend who just finished her education as a Naturopathic Physician advises me to combine "Pumpkin Seed Extract" with saw for greater effectiveness. Haven't tried this yet but will organize a search for some of this stuff. ...lmac > I've just discovered this forum. I'd like to ask two questions. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > anybody had any experience with Flonase or Nasacort ? Or anything > that helps stuffiness that doesn't affect urinating ? you might be taking the wrong saw palmetto-take the extract-I take 3 standardized saw palmetto extract 160mg each evening...I get it at walmart-around $7 a bottle >> I've just discovered this forum. I'd like to ask two questions. >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >standardized saw palmetto extract 160mg each evening...I get it at >walmart-around $7 a bottle That's what I take, and I got mine at Walmart. I will try upping the dosage from one to two caps a day. >>> I've just discovered this forum. I'd like to ask two questions. >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > That's what I take, and I got mine at Walmart. I will try upping > the dosage from one to two caps a day. You might not be taking enough to get a therapeutic effect- I have to take 3. |
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