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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate BPH / July 2003

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Hubby has high PSA; Waiting on biopsy results

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Lois - 03 Jul 2003 15:57 GMT
I'm writing on behalf of my husband since he is in an absolute panic
state at this point.  Some background - Steve is almost 50 and had
gone in for a physical exam with his regular doctor.  At the time, the
doctor noted two things on the exam - an enlarged prostate and blood
in the stool.  Steve was able to make a quick appointment with a
Gastroenterologist and a follow-up colonoscopy revealed two polyps
which after being removed and tested and were found to have high-grade
dysplasia.  Doctor feels he removed them successfully and scheduled a
follow-up appointment in three months just to make sure.  Doctor does
say it was lucky he got this tested when he did since it would have
definitely turned into Colin cancer. In between appointments, he also
went to a Urologist to follow up on the enlarged prostate.  He has
been having symptoms such as nighttime frequency, weak flow, some
erectile disfunction, etc.  Urologist sent him for a PSA test (his
first) and it came back as 12.4 ng.  When Steve returned to the
Urologist he found out these results.  In addition the Urologist did a
DRE and tested urinary function.  DRE showed a slightly enlarged
prostate but Uro found nothing unusual such as lumps or hardening.  He
did show some significant Urinary symptoms on the tests.  My husband
called me at work in an almost panic state and told me about his PSA
and that this was bad and that it probably meant he had advanced
cancer!  Unfortunately, the Urologist did nothing to qualm his fears
other than telling him it was always possible it might be an infection
but apparently mentioned nothing about the enlarged prostate possibly
causing some rise in PSA. All the doctor told him was that the PSA
level concerned him and it was significant.

I started to immediately do research since I am the type of person who
wants to see as many positive stories as possible about people who had
high PSA's and either had negative biopsy results or were found to
have early-stage treatable cancer and also to learn as much as
possible, especially if it turns out to be cancer.  Every time Steve
looks at the information, he focuses on the negative.  Anyway, three
days ago he had a 6 core biopsy.  Doctor saw nothing unusual on the
Ultrasound.  Steve found the test painful and had bleeding afterwards
that was stopped by applying ice packs.  Unfortunately, we still have
to wait another 7 days until we can go back to see the doctor for the
biopsy results.  Steve is all "gloom and doom" still expecting the
worst.  He keeps saying he has all the symptoms of advanced cancer
since he has the urinary problems.  I still believe these symptoms are
probably BPH related.  He also keeps telling me about every ache and
pain he has, suspecting it has spread to the bones.  I keep reminding
him that he has had back pains since we met but he still does not seem
to believe me.  Doctor put him on Flomax and that has helped the
urinary symptoms substantially.

One thing that concerns me is that the PSA density for Steve is .30
and I know that .15 is the threshold.  Would this mean that even
though he has BPH, that certainly does not explain the high PSA
reading?  Is it possible for a slightly enlarged prostate to cause
such a high PSA?

One thing we have both decided, is if the results show cancer we will
find a doctor at John Hopkins since we live only an hour away from
there.  We also both are aware that even if the results are negative,
that he will need to keep getting tested to see if the cancer was
missed on the biopsy.

I am looking for ways to calm my husband's fears but know this will be
difficult because he is such a pessimist.  I am the opposite of him
and consider myself an optimist but his negative attitude is beginning
to make me more nervous about the results.

Steve had another appointment with his regular doctor and even the
doctor said he was "going off the deep end" about this.  Luckily I
convinced him to at least talk to someone about this and he was able
to contact a counselor through his Employee Assistance Program.  He
did say he likes her a lot and she wants him to call as soon as he
gets the results - good or bad.

Anyway, I thought it would be good to vent a little and hope to get
some responses that I can share with Steve to make him feel more
positive about most likely not having late-stage cancer.

Lois
Terence2 - 03 Jul 2003 16:41 GMT
Tell your husband to get the mild sedative ATIVAN .
1MG in the morning and 1 Mg in the evening .
At this amount anxiety is reduced significantly without getting groggy .
I had my second PSA on the 27 th of june and if the results are the
same as the first test or higher , they will phone me in to schedule a
biopsy and ultrasound .
                    Good luck to you and your husband

Walk softly and carry a big stick and people will call you a fag !
Dave P - 03 Jul 2003 18:16 GMT
Hi Lois,

I will answer what I can.

For advanced PCa  - Steve's psa would most likely be signicantly higher -
well above 12. My Doctor stated that for a bone scan to show any cancer your
psa would have to be in most cases above 20 - 40 and then would only show a
tiny amount. For bone pain he stated it would be in the 100 - 1000.

Your living by Johns Hopkins is a big positive as they are known to be one
of the best in the nation.

I had a relative that just recently had the same prostate
circumstances/symptoms as Steve. His psa rise (15) was mostly due to BPH. On
biopsy they did find some cancer, he had an RP and is now going on two years
with an undetectable psa.

Staying positive and thinking about positive outcomes is a must throughout
this process for the both of you. Its difficult and you have to work at it
daily - but it really does have a positive impact on attitude and behavior.

I hope you have your own support system -  I acted the same way Steve did
when I found out that I might have (had) PCa and it really did have a
negative effect on my wife. She had a strong support system that kept her
healthy.

My prayers are with you.

Dave P

> I'm writing on behalf of my husband since he is in an absolute panic
> state at this point.  Some background - Steve is almost 50 and had
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> Lois
Derry Argue - 03 Jul 2003 19:11 GMT
> I'm writing on behalf of my husband since he is in an absolute panic
> state at this point.

Lois,

Your husband is a lucky man to have you as a wife!

I have had two biopsies and have a PSA of 9. I, too, found the first biopsy
unpleasant and asked for an anaesthetic the second time around. I would
strongly recommend your husband goes this route next time as I did not know
a thing about it until I woke up.

BTW, the PSA is an indication only. I was worried, of course, but have now
been declared free of cancer for the second time and hope to have the
operation (PVP) in the next few weeks. There can apparently be many reasons
for a high PSA but it is wise to have the biopsy to check.

I suspect some of your husband's symptoms may be due to the side effects of
Flomax which I am also on. The medication does what it says but posters
here have described various side effects including mood altering. One thing
that has come out in our discussions is that not everyone experiences the
same things with BPH.

Good luck and I hope everything turns out OK.

Derry
Dave Perry - 03 Jul 2003 21:05 GMT
Lois, tell hubby he probably does not have advanced cancer.  Advanced
cancer usually has PSA readings in the hundreds, even thousands.  I
have an acquaintance with a PSA of 23 and nothing on the biopsy or
bone scans.  I'm not sure how high the PSA's go only with prostate
enlargement so it is possible he does have some cancer but the fact
that nothing was noted on the ultrasound is certainly good news.  My
urologist saw right away I had a tumor on ultrasound which turned out
to be cancer even though my DRE was negative.

Now, what is the worse case?  He might have prostate cancer and if he
does he should be made aware that of all the cancers one can get,
prostate cancer is one of the friendliest.  With many other cancers,
the patient can expect to be dead in six months with or without
treatment.  However, with prostate cancer, even with no treatment at
all, most men live many, many years and treatment (either surgery or
radiation)has a very high cure (not delay but actual cure) rate.  A
non-smoking man my age (60) with excellent cardiovascular numbers as I
have has a 10% chance of death from a heart attack within 10 years,
much higher than the few percent chance of dying from prostate cancer
after treatment yet everyone focuses on the cancer giving no thought
to the more likely heart attack.  Always remember that even though
many men are diagnosed with prostate cancer something like only 1 in
10 of those diagnosed ever die of it and that doesn't include the many
who have it and never know they have it.  I think your husband has
probably been pretty healthy all of his life and now to be suddenly
clobbered by colon polyps and then a high PSA is more than he can bear
causing him to think the end is in sight.  His biopsy may not show
anything but if it does, there are plenty of good options open to him
for treatment and he can expect a full recovery.

Keep us posted on what develops, here's hoping it's all good news.
Dave Perry
bnd777 - 04 Jul 2003 00:04 GMT
Providing all the proper tests are done and an op done to remove the
prostrate if nessecary as its been caught early it should be fine
I know someone who had same thing 15 yrs ago and he is great they did a
Prostatectomy and got the lot
> I'm writing on behalf of my husband since he is in an absolute panic
> state at this point.  Some background - Steve is almost 50 and had
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> Lois
Leonard Evens - 04 Jul 2003 01:15 GMT
Your husband is certainly a worrier.   I have gone through phases where
I did the same sort of thing.   In my case, I realized that I was trying
to prepare myself for the worst case.  The more I thought about it, the
harder it got.  The problem is that you can't prepare yourself in
advance for such things, and moreover there is no point in trying.  Most
likely, it won't occur, and if you obsess about it, you are just going
to make yourself unhappy.  It is better to assume the best and only
attend to the worst if it actually happens.

As far as the details of his situation are concerned, I agree with the
others.  He almost certainly doesn't have advanced prostate cancer.  All
his symptoms have much more likely explanations.  It is even more likely
than not that he doesn't have prostate cancer at all.   If he does, it
is likely to be at a treatable stage.   In addition, at his age, the
treatment is less likely to have serious side effects.
Chris Savas - 04 Jul 2003 01:17 GMT
>I'm writing on behalf of my husband since he is in an absolute panic
>state at this point. <snip>

Your husband if very, very lucky to have you to keep a level head.  But you
will have a difficult time to convince him to calm down and not worry until
there is something to worry about.

I have been where he has been and more.  This month marks my 6-year
anniversary of being cancer free after having colon cancer.  

Then too, I have currently got a PSA of 18.75, but it is due to a large
prostate.  I know this because I have had two biopsies in the previouse years.
Both showed negative.  

My uro has suggested that I have a TURP or a TUNA, but I'm not ready in spite
of the visits at night to the bathroom.  I had been taking Proscar for 5
years. It did reduce the PSA, but it had side effects that I didn't care for,
so I stopped taking it.

I am scheduled for a cystoscopy next week. Depending to the results, I am
strongly considering contacting the doctor in St. Augustine, Florida to
schedule a PVP.

Whatever you both choose as your solution, do it with full confidence in the
doctor(s), hospital, etc.  You might not succeed in infusing a positive
approach  in your husband, but try to keep yours.  Good luck to your both.

Regards,
Chris
Lois - 05 Jul 2003 17:43 GMT
I just wanted to thank everyone for the encouragement they have
offered my husband and I.  We actually had a nice Fourth of July and
did not think too much about what is coming on Wednesday.  Steve has
read these posts and it seems to have really helped him to have a
better attitude.  He is still having some difficult moments, which I
know is to be expected.  I did hear him talk a little about our
upcoming vacation to a Dude ranch (August 2) for the first time since
the first visit with the family doctor.  I believe he is thinking it
is possible we will go on it after all and this has been something we
have been looking forward to for months.  I am wondering, if it turns
out to be cancer, how risky would it be to wait until after we get
back on August 9 for surgery?  I realize some of that depends on how
aggressive it is.  It may take a while to get an appointment through
John Hopkins anyway and I suppose we should take some time to think
about the options available.  Anyway, thanks again.

Lois  

> >I'm writing on behalf of my husband since he is in an absolute panic
> >state at this point. <snip>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> Regards,
> Chris
Steve Kramer - 06 Jul 2003 07:17 GMT
Most docs wait 6 weeks post biopsy.  August 9 should be fine.

Signature

Steve Kramer
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .3  .4  .8
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .3  .2  .2  .2
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48

> I just wanted to thank everyone for the encouragement they have
> offered my husband and I.  We actually had a nice Fourth of July and
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> > Regards,
> > Chris
firechief - 07 Jul 2003 01:34 GMT
> I am wondering, if it turns out to be cancer, how risky would
> it be to wait until after we get back on August 9 for surgery?

Whoa gal!!!!  <g>  Who said anything about surgery?

There are serveral methods to tread prostate cancer (PC) and
surgery would be the last thought to enter your mind.  Implant
of radiactive seeds www.terraseed.com and radiation are only
two other options (I hope I got that URL correct).

Don't rush into any procedure until you have examined all of
them, then make an intelligent decision.

Slow down, take that vacation, relax, enjoy the weather.
firechief - 04 Jul 2003 04:04 GMT
> I'm writing on behalf of my husband since he is in an absolute panic
> state at this point.

At least one member of the family is remaining level-headed.

> Urologist sent him for a PSA test (his first) and it came back as
> 12.4 ng.

Fellows have been writing in here and in sci.med.prostate.cancer
about their mid- to high-hundreds PSA results.  While 12.4 is
considered above normal, it is not a death certificate.  And there
are many other things, other activities, which could produce an
above average test result.  Did the urologist tell your husband
to avoid sex before the test?

>  He has been having symptoms such as nighttime frequency,
> weak flow, some erectile disfunction, etc.

> Doctor put him on Flomax and that has helped the urinary
> symptoms substantially.

 I cut-and-paste these two sentences so you can see the
relationship between erectile disfunction and Flomax.  I was
unable to tell if he he's had the problem for a long time or
just since taking Flomax.

Tamsulosin hydrochlorideTamsulosin hydrochloride
Tamsulosin hydrochloride (Flomax)
Tamsulosin hydrochloride
(tam-SOO-loh-sin)
Pregnancy Category: B Flomax (Rx)

Classification: Alpha-1 adrenergic blocking agent

Action/Kinetics: Blockade of alpha-1 receptors (probably alpha1A) in
prostate
results in relaxation of smooth muscles in bladder neck and prostate; thus,
urine flow rate is improved and there is a decrease in symptoms of BPH. Food
interferes with the rate of absorption. t1/2, elimination: 5-7 hr.
Significantly
bound to plasma proteins. Extensively metabolized in liver; excreted through
urine and feces.

Uses: Treatment of signs and symptoms of BPH. Rule out prostatic carcinoma
before using tamsulosin.

Contraindications: Use to treat hypertension, with other alpha-adrenergic
blocking agents, or in women or children.

Special Concerns: Use with caution with concurrent administration of
warfarin.

Side Effects: Body as a whole: Headache, infection, asthenia, back pain,
chest
pain. CV: Postural hypotension, syncope. GI: Diarrhea, nausea, tooth
disorder.
CNS: Dizziness, vertigo, somnolence, insomnia, decreased libido.
Respiratory:
Rhinitis, pharyngitis, increased cough, sinusitis. GU: Abnormal ejaculation.
Miscellaneous: Amblyopia.

Overdose Management: Symptoms: Hypotension. Treatment: Keep client in supine
position to restore BP and normalize HR. If this is inadequate, consider IV
fluids. Vasopressors may also be used; monitor renal function.

Drug Interactions: Cimetidine causes significant (something lost in
download)
in clearance of tamsulosin.

How Supplied: Capsules: 0.4 mg

Dosage
Capsules Benign prostatic hypertrophy.
Adult males: 0.4 mg daily given about 30 min after same meal each day. If,
after
2 to 4 weeks, clients have not responded, dose can be increased to 0.8 mg
daily.
Don - 04 Jul 2003 06:42 GMT
> I'm writing on behalf of my husband since he is in an absolute panic
> state at this point.

I suffered with bph for several years.  Prior to having a TURP at age 68
in 98, my psa went from 4 to 17. It has never been less than 4. I had
several biopsies during this period, all negative.  After having the
TURP, my psa dropped back to 4 and has been there since. My urologist
says this is fairly common in people with enlarged prostates.  This
could very likely be the reason for your husband's high psa.  Let's hope
it is.

Don
Steve Kramer - 05 Jul 2003 14:30 GMT
Sorry, Lois, but at this time, I'd say the best that can be said is that his
results so far are inconclusive.  He may have cancer.  He may have BHP.  He
may have unusually high PSA.

However, he does not have ADVANCED prostate cancer.  Of that you can be
almost certain.  Which means if it has not penetrated the prostate, he has a
chance at a cure.

Signature

Steve Kramer
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .3  .4  .8
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .3  .2  .2  .2
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48

> I'm writing on behalf of my husband since he is in an absolute panic
> state at this point.  Some background - Steve is almost 50 and had
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> Lois
Martin Howard - 08 Jul 2003 07:01 GMT
Lois, what is a high PSA? Mine last month was 439!!

Yet I feel well. Yes the cancer had spread to lumbar 1, but by diet, herbs,
supplements, fasting, urine therapy and other methods I have stopped it
spreading further and my urinary functions seem to be getting back to
normal.
No cutting, poison, radiation etc.

It is slow, slower than I thought it would be. But then I always assume I
can do a job in half the time it really takes.

I am even enjoying this journey through cancer. But then as a Quaker I
welcome personal experience, changes in life etc. To others they can be
alarming. It all depends on how you view change, as a friend or enemy.

--
Martin Howard
Webbs Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
01371 850 423
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
Updated 19th April 2003
Ron - 08 Jul 2003 15:44 GMT
Martin,
You're sure you're not a Buddhist?
Also, Is urine therapy drinking your own urine?

> From: "Martin Howard" <Webbscottage@btopenworld.com>
> Organization: BT Openworld
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
> Updated 19th April 2003
Lois - 08 Jul 2003 20:35 GMT
Hello people!!  Yes, I'm Lois Solomon's high PSA (12.4) hubby; Steven.
I've also been a nervous basket case for almost a month now.  My
physical exam on June 13 ended with a DRE showing an enlarged
prostate, and blood found in my stool.  The enlarged prostate wasn't a
total surprise ( I piss more times than a drunk who inherated a
brewery!), but the blood in the stool was. My wife Lois found a local
doctor who could examine my colon right away.  He found two medium
sized polyps, and removed them for biopsy.  Thank God the biopsy came
back negative, but with high grade dysplasia.  Obviously that bears
watching fairly closely from now on.  One down, one to go.  Now I
still had to wait for the prostate biopsy to come in.  The office
moved the appointment up one day, as the results of the biopsy came in
yesterday.  Also, I had started bleeding again from the biopsy.
Important rule of thumb:  NEVER ride a 22 year old motorcycle for 125
miles on the Fourth of July, four days after a prostste biopsy.  I had
blood in my urine for days afterwards! Real bright of me wasn't it?
So Lois and I went in today for the result.  When he told me that the
biopsy had come back NEGATIVE, I almost jumped up and kissed the man!
He scheduled another PSA test/ biopsy four months from now.  Now I
know there is still a chance the second biopsy (or third or fourth)
could come back positive, especially if my 12.4 PSA does not go down
(or even rises!).  However, I'll enjoy the summer with my wife and
family; and in four months, see what God and fate has to hand me.  My
entire family has been very, very supportive of this negative thinking
basket case.  I also want to truly thank everyone who read and
responded to my wife's post, I appreciate your advise and support VERY
MUCH!!!  My wife especially has been wonderful through all this.  The
word SPECIAL doesn"t begin to describe her.  Again, thanks to everyone
for the support, and I'll keep my fingers crossed until the next PSA/
biopsy.  Steve Solomon

> I'm writing on behalf of my husband since he is in an absolute panic
> state at this point.  Some background - Steve is almost 50 and had
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> Lois
bnd777 - 08 Jul 2003 21:28 GMT
Good Luck Lois

> Hello people!!  Yes, I'm Lois Solomon's high PSA (12.4) hubby; Steven.
> I've also been a nervous basket case for almost a month now.  My
[quoted text clipped - 102 lines]
> >
> > Lois
Jack - 09 Jul 2003 00:32 GMT
Great news Steven!  Now go on vacation, relax and have fun.

A word or two of advice before the next blood sample for the PSA.
Don't do anything that might inflame, disturb, inflate or otherwise
irritate your prostate.  Such as ride the motorcycle for the week
before, ride a bicycle for trips, over a mile, have a DRE exam, or
some us even say ejaculate for the four days before the blood is
drawn.

I had a doc do a DRE, liked to kill me, thought he was trying to
squash my prostate.  Anyway then had blood drawn for the PSA and it
was double my last number, 3.6 to 7.1.  Had another PSA test three
weeks later, 3.8.

Jack

> Hello people!!  Yes, I'm Lois Solomon's high PSA (12.4) hubby; Steven.
> I've also been a nervous basket case for almost a month now.  My
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> for the support, and I'll keep my fingers crossed until the next PSA/
> biopsy.  Steve Solomon
 
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