Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate BPH / September 2007
AUR--Countdown to Showtime (PVP Surgery)
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Michael - 15 Aug 2007 23:54 GMT I was the OP in the other two recent BPH/AUR Threads. Cutting to the chase--lasering to the chase actually--scheduled for PVP surgery (with biopsy and cystoscopy done on the table) next Tuesday August 21st. Pennsylvania Hospital (Philly) with Dr. Malloy (and I'm sure many student onlookers) at the controls.
Wouldn't even have known much about PVP or Dr. Malloy were it not for this Group/Board. And I'm hoping that turns out to be a good thing!!! l
Derek F - 16 Aug 2007 00:53 GMT >I was the OP in the other two recent BPH/AUR Threads. Cutting to the > chase--lasering to the chase actually--scheduled for PVP surgery (with [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > this Group/Board. And I'm hoping that turns out to be a good > thing!!! l You will be laughing all the way from the John. Your situation will improve in many ways but not necessary in all aspects. I don't have urgency, I don't go nearly so often, I don't have retention, I don't have Retro but I do not have the really strong flow that I expected. Derek.
Ed - 16 Aug 2007 02:49 GMT >I was the OP in the other two recent BPH/AUR Threads. Cutting to the >chase--lasering to the chase actually--scheduled for PVP surgery (with [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >this Group/Board. And I'm hoping that turns out to be a good >thing!!! l Well, that was quick. I wish you the best, and please let us know the outcome!
Ed
Rich256 - 16 Aug 2007 03:43 GMT > I was the OP in the other two recent BPH/AUR Threads. Cutting to the > chase--lasering to the chase actually--scheduled for PVP surgery (with [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > this Group/Board. And I'm hoping that turns out to be a good > thing!!! l Amazing he got you in so soon.
We all seem to have different levels of improvement. There is the extraordinary ones such as Forlorn Hope who I think described it as a gusher. I had a catheter for the first night and was quite worried for the next day. By evening I was thinking I would have to have the catheter put back in but by morning I was at least back to the flow of before the procedure. Then for the next two weeks it steadily improved to what I will describe as flow from 30 years ago. I still am subject to urgency two or three times a night but the flow is so great I spend very little time. My URO gave me some medication that would help but I had the dizzy side effect and decided it wasn't worth it.
Someone here from San Diego said that after PVP he could write his name in the snow if they had any.
Yeah, keep us informed.
Michael - 16 Aug 2007 22:04 GMT > > I was the OP in the other two recent BPH/AUR Threads. Cutting to the > > chase--lasering to the chase actually--scheduled for PVP surgery (with [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Yeah, keep us informed. Rich, Ed, Derek:
I can live with occasional--even more than occasional urgency because for the most part most days for the past 9 years until the evening when I could actually sit for 4-5 hours comfortably, every day and the middle of the night the urge was unrelenting. I just hope I have not done permanent damage to my bladder or kidneys by years of just hoping it would pass (until my two recent AUR/ER episode).
Also Dr. Malloy is doing both a biopsy and a cystoscopy the day of surgery so I hope nothing horrible turns (will he want authorization to laser/remove te entire Prostatewhile I'm under if the worst occurs or will he "simply" say no PVP today come back for a prostatectomy???
Catheter still in from AUR episode #2 and it turns out I have a staph infection. Already on AB's Malloy did not feel either the infection or the B's will effect next Tuesday's surgery. So in summary, one or two extra post-op days with catheter no big deal and a few days until some normalcy returns to my bathroom also no big deal
IMPORTANT QUESTION: will they insist I go without the catheter before discharging me from hospital??(after surgery)? I don't do well under that pressure even without a post-op discharge situation (pun intended).
Very impressed so far but yes it's getting to be "crunch time" (ouch)
Hope to talk to you guys about this "on the other side of Tuesday".
Rich256 - 17 Aug 2007 15:32 GMT > > > I was the OP in the other two recent BPH/AUR Threads. Cutting to the > > > chase--lasering to the chase actually--scheduled for PVP surgery (with [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Can't answer what Dr. Malloy would do. That you should discuss with him. As for prostate surgery, this is my Dr. operating on someone:
http://www.porterhospital.org/index.php?s=optional_2
A neighbor recently had his prostate removed that way.
After PVP the urethra has one hell of a sunburn. Only the first day was unconfortable for me. Later on you might notice dead tissue being ejected. Others have reported immediate results.
Rich256 - 01 Sep 2007 21:55 GMT > > > I was the OP in the other two recent BPH/AUR Threads. Cutting to the > > > chase--lasering to the chase actually--scheduled for PVP surgery (with [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Michael,
We are still waiting to hear the results of the PVP!! Hoping all went well.
Michael - 04 Sep 2007 22:38 GMT > > > > I was the OP in the other two recent BPH/AUR Threads. Cutting to the > > > > chase--lasering to the chase actually--scheduled for PVP surgery (with [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > We are still waiting to hear the results of the PVP!! Hoping all went > well. Rich and Others..The "Agony" Continues
Recap: Dr. Malloy kindly met with me, evaluated me (including a very brief med. history and a digital rectal exam only) deemed me a candidate for the PVP surgery and scheduled it for August 21st. All at the "speed of sound". I WAS grateful.
Tuesday August 21st I was there (Penna Hospital) at 6:00 AM, told for the first time in the pre-op prep. area what my anesthesia options would be (I chose a Spinal) and wheeled in. Upon awakening I was informed "whoops, we couldn't do the PVP surgery your prostate turned out to be way too large for the laser".Couldn't even get the cystoscope past the prostate.
They did do a Prostate Biopsy while I was under. While still under the influence of the valium, Dr. Malloy said "we're going in the regular way (2 1/2 inch abdominal incision to access the prostate)" next time.He said to come back in 6 days for the next "try" [note: a simple Ultra Sound for size would have showed everyone pre-op my Prostate was too large for the PVP cure; it was never suggested or performed].
That day he indicated I would be discharged, instead I sat in my hospital room for 6+ excruciating hours--the drugs wore off-- hoping someone would come by to discharge/update me. That was after 3 1/2 hours in the recovery area waiting for the spinal to wear off (i.e. until I could move my toes). Finally at 7:00 PM his resident came by to say I would not be going home that evening and that it was one of the biggest prostates (they) had ever seen. He seemed otherwise unconcerned until I reminded him I was worried about the Biopsy results.
After a night in the hosp. in discomfort--they used an industrial strength catheter at high tension--early the next morning Malloy came by and I asked him for more time (to gather myself--I was pretty drained emotionally and physically )before the conventional surgery he was going to do. He agreed. For four days I waited (at home) for the biopsy results. The results were in the day after the abortive PVP, but I was not officially informed by Dr. Malloy the results were negative (despite a PSA of 22 per the report!!) until 4 days after PVP attempt. THANK G-D (of course) that no tumor was identified
I'm now scheduled for a (conventional) benign retropubic prostatectomy for next Tuesday (ominously September 11th). I'm still worried about the dangers of long-term catheter insertion ( more than 5 1/2 weeks now and counting) but believe it or not my confidence in this doctor remains high. Just hope I don't hear another "whoops" after this abdominal surgery.
3 day hospital stay. The resident said they will (in essence) be "gutting" my Prostate but (hopefully) leaving all the good stuff. They continue to predict (again) I will be "urinating like a 20 year old (some day??!!)". Dr. Malloy said the only obvious side effect might be ejaculatory issues (volume, retrograde, etc.) to which I say "so what if that's all".
Comments, statements of empathy (especially "poor baby") invited!!!
Rich256 - 04 Sep 2007 23:33 GMT > > > > > I was the OP in the other two recent BPH/AUR Threads. Cutting to the > > > > > chase--lasering to the chase actually--scheduled for PVP surgery (with [quoted text clipped - 120 lines] > > - Show quoted text - It sure seems you have had to take a difficult route to get proper attention.
Naturally I am wondering why he had surgery scheduled before getting a close look at the prostate. It seems to me that an ultrasound in the office would have detected the abnormal size prostate.
On the other hand that should have been done long ago by other UROs.
I just did a little searching on the procedure. It seems to have a good track record for curing the problem.
Ed - 04 Sep 2007 23:34 GMT >Rich and Others..The "Agony" Continues > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > >Comments, statements of empathy (especially "poor baby") invited!!! Michael,
Thanks for sharing this with us! And I am sorry that your condition has not already been resolved.
Did they say anything about how big your prostate was?
I thought Malloy was a pretty hot uro, and that he did large prostates, up to 174 mL as implied by his joint paper with Dr Te and others. See http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06197.x (or http://tinyurl.com/2zjwrc). (If anyone wants the full text article and has any difficulty getting it, just say so and I will post it somewhere.)
For large prostates, the method of choice is open prostatectomy. That's serious surgery, but the longterm outcome is excellent, better than for TURP.
So, here's hoping that all goes well and that you'll be peeing like a champ before too long.
Let us know what happens, please!
Ed
Peter - 05 Sep 2007 03:26 GMT >>>>> I was the OP in the other two recent BPH/AUR Threads. Cutting to >>>>> the chase--lasering to the chase actually--scheduled for PVP [quoted text clipped - 132 lines] > > Comments, statements of empathy (especially "poor baby") invited!!! So sorry Michael...my heart goes out to you, and it sounds like a form of incompetence to me. Not only for not having the ultrasound beforehand, but for not having a pre-op cystoscopy which I feel is the right way to go regardless of who the uro is or what country. I have made references to this many times in here, and I had a cysto before both my TUIP and TURP, which I think is more the norm than not, although others in here have said they went directly to pvp just based on history and a digital and maybe an ultrasound. I guess since you were in such a bad way Malloy thought he would just get on with it. I will say that was damn nice of him to get you in to see him so quickly, and to schedule the procedure so quickly (almost unheard of). But......
Let me ask you something - is this a teaching hospital or university you are going to in Penna, and will this "great" Dr. Malloy be actually doing the surgery, or just supervising one of the residents or fellows. Generally in teaching hospitals you NEVER get operated on by the actual expert in the field, but one of his residents or fellows under him (or several doctors/assistants for more serious procedures) does the surgery (especially in a hospital like Johns Hopkins or the Mayo Clinic). So the question of asking a doctor how many surgeries he has done (which is always mentioned in here) goes out the window as far as the experience factor. The pvp is not major surgery and is ambulatory in nature (the open prostatectomy is more serious), but my statement is still valid, and it is even worse for the real major surgeries. So I wonder when people talk about Dr. Te and Dr. Lin and Dr. Laub, if these doctors are actually doing the surgeries, or are they overseeing residents and fellows. If they are at a teaching hospital and part of a University or a hospital like Johns Hopkins, and are on the staff, then I doubt they ever do the actually surgery, but are just in a supervisor capacity.
This is a very interesting question that I just went through with a visit to Johns Hopkins surgeon who specializes in MIS and GERD problems (he uses the da Vinci robot also). So the question is not just how many have you done doc, and what is your success rate and the risks, etc (like we always ask our surgeons) - but will YOU (ie the doctor you are talking to) be doing the actually surgery, whether it is done manually or via a da Vinci robot. In the teaching hospitals the answer is usually no unless you happen to be one of the lucky ones that the doc is using as part of the teaching process.
I was going to post this info in here as a separate post, so consider it done. I find it very interesting. The bottom line is everyone says if you have any serious and difficult to solve problem or condition (I am not talking about the prostate, but in general for all disease processes), then you should go to a university or hospital that is classified as a teaching hospital. They are also called tertiary care centers. I have been to them with not a lot of luck and have not been impressed, and to me doctors are the same all over, except they can do the more advanced technique major procedures, that are not done in little red neck towns so to speak.
I will stop now, and I wish you the best with your open prostatectomy. You certainly deserve it.
Pete
Michael - 06 Sep 2007 07:45 GMT > >>>>> I was the OP in the other two recent BPH/AUR Threads. Cutting to > >>>>> the chase--lasering to the chase actually--scheduled for PVP [quoted text clipped - 186 lines] > > Pete Pete, Ed, Rich....
Really late just wanted to jump on with my ongoing thank yous and a fast reply to some points raised above. Pennsylvania Hospital in Philly is a renowned teaching hospital one of this area's best (by reputation). I read my operation notes (provided by Malloy's office) and according to the notes Malloy and his medical associate performed the abortive PVP assisted by their resident. I of course have no way of knowing in fact who was at the laser controls or who made the "no go" decision.
The size of my prostate was determined to be 158 (grams??) and though it's a haze I recall at least the resident saying anything over 100 (grams?) is considered quite large (not sure whether> 100gr is considered "too large" for PVP). The resident indicated the prostate was both very large and wrapped around my bladder in an unusual way (which did not seem to unduly concern the docs--it concerns me of course).
Kinda my fault about prior ultrasounds in my file with my prior uro, but NOT provided to Malloy by me pre-op, which might have indicated the size per prior US was too large.As I said things moved VERY quickly and I ASSUMED he screened via Digital Rectal and my verbal indications of long-term BPH that I "qualified" for PVP. He didn't ask me about previous size readings and in hindsight I should have asked him. I knew prostate cancer would be a dealbreaker but even for that he did a biopsy only after I was under anesthesia expecting PVP surgery.That too made little sense to me.
OK..my newest concern is the surgical prep. instructions from his office for this open surgery are exactly the same prep. as for the abortive PVP (simply "don't eat or drink after midnight") which makes no sense to me. This surgery is far more "major". Of course I will take nothing for granted this time and call them to be 100% certain that a more extensive bowel cleansing/fasting is not required.
You guys have been awesome. Thanks again. My feeling is that as long as cancer or horrible bladder damage is not involved--Malloy thinks the long-term catheter insertion has significantly HELPED my bladder-- and he gets it right this time w/o complications then I'll be thankful.
I'll try to get back on here before September 11th surgery. Hope you're all well.
Derek F - 06 Sep 2007 16:27 GMT Excuse the top posting. I would be looking for second and third opinions before having a radical prostatectomy. A TURP may have probable problems after it but with a prostatectomy they are practically guaranteed. Derek.
>> >>>>> I was the OP in the other two recent BPH/AUR Threads. Cutting to >> >>>>> the chase--lasering to the chase actually--scheduled for PVP [quoted text clipped - 256 lines] > I'll try to get back on here before September 11th surgery. Hope > you're all well. Ed - 06 Sep 2007 16:50 GMT >Excuse the top posting. >I would be looking for second and third opinions before having a radical >prostatectomy. A TURP may have probable problems after it but with a >prostatectomy they are practically guaranteed. >Derek. I don't think Michael is in line for a radical prostatectomy... it is probably for an open prostatectomy, in which the gland is "cored".
The info I've heard says that prospects are best with an open prostatectomy... least chance of needing another operation in the next 10 years, etc... although it is serious surgery with a longer hospital stay and longer recuperation period.
Ed
Rich256 - 06 Sep 2007 16:45 GMT > > Pete > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > I'll try to get back on here before September 11th surgery. Hope > you're all well. At least you are on the way to a "fix". Too bad the prior URO did not emphasize the size.
There is one problem with all doctors. They are human and humans often make mistakes. A hazard for anyone in a profession where mistakes are forbidden. I know, as I have been there. Without all the full details, I don't like to criticize. Like the air traffic controller stating "10,000 good landings and one little ol midair - - -" We had an old saying "One "Ah sh.t" wipes out 100,000 "atta boy". Always difficult to do engine repairs while it is running.
And even more so just trying to stay somewhere near the latest technology is difficult.
For bph the doctor probably finds that 99% of the time there is no reason to spend a lot of time in prior tests. Beneficial for patients that have to travel a relatively long distance. Falling in the 1% you suffer the consequences.
As for the pre-op instructions. Always the same. Don't eat. My wife had Rotator Cuff Surgery last week. Same instructions.
Will be interested in what you find out about the "wrapped around the bladder". Maybe that is your major problem and can be corrected with the prostatectomy.
Peter - 06 Sep 2007 19:39 GMT > You guys have been awesome. Thanks again. My feeling is that as long > as cancer or horrible bladder damage is not involved--Malloy thinks [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'll try to get back on here before September 11th surgery. Hope > you're all well. The very best of luck to you Michael. I am sure things will go better this time, and I wish you a speedy recovery. Please let us know how your prostatectomy comes out as soon as you can. Take care...Pete
Michael - 08 Sep 2007 16:17 GMT > > You guys have been awesome. Thanks again. My feeling is that as long > > as cancer or horrible bladder damage is not involved--Malloy thinks [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > time, and I wish you a speedy recovery. Please let us know how your > prostatectomy comes out as soon as you can. Take care...Pete Rich, Ed, Pete,Derek (and Corky who e-mailed me but my e-mail back bounced for some reason):
I'm not scheduled for a radical I'm scheduled for a benign retropubic prostatectomy (new acronym for us? "BRP"!!)
I'm at peace with the long and winding road leading up to Tuesday's surgery. It is at least partly my fault for not insisting Dr. Malloy realize I had previous Ultra Sounds (for size) in my file (which he did not have because things moved so fast with him before the PVP) . He knew it was large, he did a digital rectal to confirm that and then said: "PVP is on".
I resolved the prep. issue: his nurse said had it been cancerous and they had to do a radical a full two day clear liquid pre-op "fast/ bowel clean-out" would have been necessary. Since it's not a radical prostatectomy (rather a "BRP") a "simple" don't eat or drink after midnight prep. is "all" that is required.
Thanks again to everyone. I'll check back on here before Tuesday but if I don't get a chance to post I cannot express how helpful you have (all) been.
Stay well everyone and I HOPE to post again soon after my anticipated discharge (assuming no probs.) on September 14th or 15th.
Ed - 08 Sep 2007 17:24 GMT >Thanks again to everyone. I'll check back on here before Tuesday but >if I don't get a chance to post I cannot express how helpful you have >(all) been. Michael,
You have been very helpful to us as well. My situation is very similar to yours... prostate is about 150 mL and I may be in for an open prostatectomy, which I think must be similar to your "BRP".
>Stay well everyone and I HOPE to post again soon after my anticipated >discharge (assuming no probs.) on September 14th or 15th. All the best... there should be a significant improvement in your life by then. Let us know...
Ed
Michael - 10 Sep 2007 23:37 GMT > >Thanks again to everyone. I'll check back on here before Tuesday but > >if I don't get a chance to post I cannot express how helpful you have [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Ed Ed: Good luck to you too. Assuming things go decently tomorrow (T minus 11 1/2 hours) I'll try to get back on here soon after (Friday) discharge if I'm OK/comfortable (physically). Feel free to e-mail me as your situation defines itself in the future. Again thanks to all
Another unsettling call about an hour ago from the radiology adjunct to the surgical team, asking "if I have ever had a cat scan of the area to be operated on"; I replied not to my knowledge, why are you asking the night before surgery? (She) said don't worry a cat scan might have been a bit helpful but it's not "necessary" to go ahead with the surgery. we shall see....)
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