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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate BPH / October 2003

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PVP plus 3 days

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James Mullins - 17 Oct 2003 20:36 GMT
I live in Las Vegas and PVP is not available here.  I had a TUNA in 2000
and a TUIP in 2002, neither one of which worked.  My uro does TURPs, but
he did not push me to have the TURP, saying he understood my reluctance,
but the Roto-Rooter was what he did.  I had a PVP done by Dr. Laub in
Santa Barbara on Oct. 14.  So far, I have not had the immediate relief
that I and Dr. Laub expected.  His routine for out of town patients is
to do the preliminary visit with him and the hospital pre-admits one day
and the procedure the next.  I talked to him on Mon. Oct. 13 and he did
a cystoscopy and an uroflow before he would commit to the procedure.
Obviously, I wanted to find out if he thought I was a candidate for the
PVP before we committed to it.  He looked at the reports from my uro and
listened to me talk and asked a number of questions.  He said that he
wanted to do the cystoscopy, because he wasn't sure that the lasers
would necessarily solve my problem.  He showed me on the TV screen
during the cysto where the blockage was and he said that he felt that
the PVP would be appropriate for my situation.  The main blockage was at
the bladder neck, and there was prostate tissue to be removed there as
well as the central part of the prostate.  He did say that he could not
guarantee that the problem was prostate, that it might be bladder as
well or alone.  After the PVP, he told me that my prostate, although
small, was very fibrous and tough and more difficult to vaporize than
some he had worked with.  The procedure took less than 30 minutes.  I
elected for general anaesthetic, which he prefers and I was glad,
because I had a spinal with the TUNA, and I will never willingly have a
spinal again.  My body was paralyzed from the waist down for almost 6
hours after the surgery and even though it may have been a mistake on
the part of the anaesthesiologist, it was a very bad experience which I
will not repeat except as an absolute last resort.  I was Dr. Laub's
first patient that day which meant I had to get to the hospital, Cottage
Hospital, at 5:00 am.  We stayed at the Best Western Motel which is
within walking distance of the hospital and Dr. Laub's office, which is
directly across the street from the hospital.  I was able to walk to and
from the hospital to our motel room with no problem.  I woke up from the
surgery at about 9:30 am and was moved to a hospital room shortly
thereafter.  The surgery was over just before 8:00 am and the nurse
removed the catheter before I was moved from the recovery area.  I first
tried to pee at about 11:00 and was not successful.  The nurse put in
another catheter which was in overnight.  Dr. Laub told me to remove the
catheter myself in the morning and come to see him around noon, which I
did.  The catheter was easy to remove and not even the least bit
uncomfortable.  I was able to pee, but with BPH type symptoms.  Dr. Laub
did an ultra-sound and said that I had quite a bit of retention, a
couple of cupfulls.  He gave me a prescription for Vioxxin and Cipro and
said to come back at about 3:30.  I did and he repeated the ultrasound
with better results.  He said my retention was still above normal, but
not bad.  He started me on Urecholine for the bladder and said to come
back in the morning at 8:30 since my wife and I were returning to Las
Vegas on Thursday.  I went back in the morning and we talked and he said
it was OK to go home, but to stop and stretch every couple of hours.  He
didn't need to say that, because I had to stop and pee almost every
hour.  The stops were due as much to a sense of urgency as to a full
bladder.  Although the trip was long and tiring, it was not painful and
I was pleased that what I felt was only slight discomfort.
 
At this point, I am experiencing BPH symptoms similar to before the PVP,
except that the sense of urgency is greater.  I have no pain and have
seen no blood since the day afer the procedure.  I am optimistic that
things will improve over the next few weeks.  Dr. Laub said not to lift
anything over 10 lbs. for two weeks.  I will report back after a couple
of weeks and let you know of my progress.  I was very impressed with Dr.
Laub.  I feel that he is caring and devoted to what he is doing.  I am
sure that other doctors in the Santa Barbara area will now learn the PVP
procedure, because Laserscope has authorized him to train doctors to do
the procedure.  He has done about 50 now.  I think I was number 49, so I
felt like he knew what he was doing.

I am more convinced than ever that each person's story is different and
there is no "one fits all" solution to the prostate problems which men
have.  I encourage all participants on this board to keep posting,
whether it be to talk about problems in general or report on procedures,
be it PVP, TUNA, TUIP, TURP, or whatever.  We don't want to be perceived
as a rooting section for PVP, even though it was my procedure of choice
and I still look on TURP as a last resort.

--
Bruce Siegel - 18 Oct 2003 03:47 GMT
Hi James,

Thanks so much for the full, detailed report.  I've been in touch with Dr.
Laub and his assistant for the past few weeks, and plan to see him in the
next few months, so I'm naturally very interested to hear what you have to
say.  

I too was impressed with him, though my only contact with him so far has
been a phone call.  He was generous with his time, and I'm glad to put
myself into his hands (so to speak).

Please keep us informed.  Delighted to hear that you have no pain.  Do let
us know the status of your BPH symptoms over the next few weeks.

Thanks,
Bruce

> I live in Las Vegas and PVP is not available here.  I had a TUNA in 2000
> and a TUIP in 2002, neither one of which worked.  My uro does TURPs, but
[quoted text clipped - 69 lines]
> as a rooting section for PVP, even though it was my procedure of choice
> and I still look on TURP as a last resort.
Frederic E Henzi - 19 Oct 2003 04:35 GMT
Hi James,

Good report. You point out that not all BPH problems are due to enlargement
of the old gland. It might explain why some men have less success than other
with PVP treatment. I guess the same applies to TURP.
I wish you speedy recovery. I took me 2-3 weeks to recover physically from
PVP. Mentally, I still have some hang-up. Although I can hold 5-6 hours, I
pee more often because there is opportunity to do so. In crowded washrooms,
I might go for the stall  because I still fear that I might not be able to
void.  It is  frustrating since I can pee at up to 30 ml/sec and I've never
had a "blockage" since PVP in May.

Good luck

Fred Henzi
PVP by DrLaub

>The main blockage was at
> the bladder neck, and there was prostate tissue to be removed there as
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> because I had a spinal with the TUNA, and I will never willingly have a
> spinal again.
Derry Argue - 19 Oct 2003 09:44 GMT
> I took me 2-3 weeks to recover physically from
> PVP. Mentally, I still have some hang-up. Although I can hold 5-6
> hours, I pee more often because there is opportunity to do so.

Reading these posts, I get the impression that urgency has as much to do
with psychological as physical causes. I am a great believer in auto-
suggestion, a form of self hypnosis. I find I can control urgency to a
degree (but not to an infinite one!<G>) by convincing myself it isn't
urgent. Don't know if that makes sense but it is worth a try.

Derry
Lee M. - 19 Oct 2003 16:15 GMT
> > I took me 2-3 weeks to recover physically from
> > PVP. Mentally, I still have some hang-up. Although I can hold 5-6
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Derry

I think there's some truth to this.  It seems to me that I need to void less
frequently if I am busy doing something that requires physical as well as
mental activity.  If I'm just sitting at my desk at work doing whatever or
watching TV at home, I have the urge frequently.
Patrick - 19 Oct 2003 16:36 GMT
Derry,
There is some truth to you statements.  After PVP, initially urgency will
increase as the whole bladder area has been injured and needs to heal.
After the healing process, a significiant part of urgency is psycological.
From years of having to worry about where is the closest toilet, to will I
be able to go, etc. etc. you train yourself to be aware of the first signs
of the bladder being ready to go. You have to train yourself that it is okay
to wait as you will be able to go at the appropriate time.

I found that urgency didn't 100% go away until a full year after PVP.   Even
now nearly 18 months afterwards, I still get alittle axious if I have the
slightest urge and I am not near a rest room.

But at the very beginning urgency after the PVP does increase but in a few
weeks it will start slowly coming down to nothing.

Patrick

> > I took me 2-3 weeks to recover physically from
> > PVP. Mentally, I still have some hang-up. Although I can hold 5-6
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Derry
Derry Argue - 19 Oct 2003 19:27 GMT
> After the healing process, a significiant part of urgency is
> psycological. From years of having to worry about where is the closest
> toilet, to will I be able to go, etc. etc. you train yourself to be
> aware of the first signs of the bladder being ready to go. You have to
> train yourself that it is okay to wait as you will be able to go at
> the appropriate time.

Patrick,

I have to confess to having had a misspent youth. Heavy beer drinking does
teach one how to hold on! That is one of the fringe benefits (?) of a
university education<G>.

Derry
Frederic E Henzi - 20 Oct 2003 06:28 GMT
Derry,

One of the benefits of this NG is to read from posters who are honest about
their experiences, pains, worries. It is comforting to read that I'm not the
only one with a bit of post PVP hang-up. I shall try the self hypnosis bit.
My current problem is truly minor compared to pre-PVP misery. Life is really
good again.
Thanks guys.

Fred Henzi

> > After the healing process, a significiant part of urgency is
> > psycological. From years of having to worry about where is the closest
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Derry
Steve - 20 Oct 2003 13:56 GMT
>  Derry,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Fred Henzi

I haven't had a PVP but I have continuing problems with urgency and
uretheral burning sensation.  I have been experimenting with motrin and
cranberry capsules and they seem to help... the motrin dulls the pain
and the cranberry capsules seem to ward off any bacterial
complications.  Can't hurt to try.

I can also echo what other's have said about sitting and getting
involved in something to take your mind off of it.

Steve
Frederic E Henzi - 20 Oct 2003 21:00 GMT
Steve,

In my humble opinion, get checked out for BPH. If this is your problem, go
for a surgical fix. To me, everything else is just delaying the inevitable.
BPH gets worse with time. Why keep on suffering, just because you haven't
been caught yet with an acute blockage. I had PVP and this surgery was a
piece of cake compared to month and years of figuring out how to time my
life around toilets, urinals and meds to check urgency and inflammation. Now
I can again think about sex every two minutes.

Fred Henzi

> >  Derry,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Steve
Steve - 21 Oct 2003 00:21 GMT
> Steve,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> life around toilets, urinals and meds to check urgency and inflammation. Now
> I can again think about sex every two minutes.

Thanks, Fred.  I agree that surgery is probably inevitable.  From what
I have read, Green Laser PVP looks like the best bet, however no one in
my area does it yet and it is still kind of new.  I am hoping that by
delaying the inevitable the proceedure will be further perfected and
more widely available.

The other problem is that I have almost zero confidence in the local
urologists being able to accurately dignose the problem.  Is it the
prostate closing the urethra or something else?   All my DRE's are
"normal". I suppose that  a cystoscopy (sp?) would at least show if
there was internal stricture but I have been reluctant to take the risk
of infection/irritation/puncture as long as I can live with it.

Also, the symptoms are not constant... one day I have a moderately
strong stream, the next day it is just a dribble.  One day the urgency
drives me nuts, the next day it is manageable. I'm thinking a swelling
caused by infection could cause this intermitancy... if it were a
stricture I would think it would be constant.  And from what I can tell
the treatments for infection are usually ineffective and have severe
side effects.

I don't know how they would differentiate internal swelling due to
infection from internal swelling due to growth via a cystoscope... do
you?

Steve
Lee M. - 21 Oct 2003 00:58 GMT
> > Steve,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> Steve

I think the nature of BPH is that it is not consistent.  Sometimes I can go
2.5-3 hours between voiding, other times I may go 3 times in a 2 hour
interval.  Part of it depends on how much liquid I have consumed, part
depends on how occupied I am with other activities.  My stream also varies
greatly but I do find if I wait too long, the stream will be very weak.  I
had a complete blood workup after my last physical to verify that there was
no infection causing my problem.  Neither saw palmetto, Flomax, nor beta
sistosterol has helped.  After the first of the year I plan to see the
closest uro doing PVP who happens to be 70 miles away.

Lee
Patrick - 21 Oct 2003 01:12 GMT
Lee,
If you wait until January to have PVP, you might be the 10,000th patient
overall to have had a PVP.  I think Laserscope will hand out free balloons
to that lucky person. :)

As always, best wishes for getting rid of BPH symptoms.

Patrick

> > > Steve,
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>
> Lee
Lee M. - 21 Oct 2003 02:44 GMT
Baloons, heck, the 10,000th patient should get a free procedure!  My current
insurance has no out-of-network coverage but in Jan I'll be switching to
BCBS and the doc that's 70 miles away is in that network.  Of course, he may
want to try other remedies before putting me "under the light."  We'll see.

Lee

> Lee,
> If you wait until January to have PVP, you might be the 10,000th patient
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
> >
> > Lee
 
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