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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate BPH / May 2006Greenlight PVP/Retrograde
Well it's been a year now since my surgery and sadly I have to say that the retrograde seems permanent. I have ejaculated a few times but very little if any. I was wondering if anyone has heard of any new treatments for retrograde ejaculation. I've done some google searches on it and have come up with the same things like, Sudafed and some antidepressant that seems to help. Haven't tried the antidepressant but my give it a go. I know some of you are saying what is the big deal but with me it is a big deal. Is there anyone out there that's my age (35) that has retrograde? I would really like to talk with someone about it. It has affected my dating in which now I don't go out looking for sex anymore. Hi Eddie, I'm so sorry to hear of your difficulty. I may be getting PVP in the near future and am concerned about retrograde myself (I'm 59). My uro told me that with my enlarged median lobe, it's very likely I would get it. Is retro a problem for you because the sensation is not as pleasurable, or because you're embarassed to have a woman see that no semen comes out? Forgive my bluntness, but I'm trying to understand what I'm getting myself into. Thanks, Bruce The feeling is the same. It's just embarassing to me. >Hi Eddie, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Thanks, >Bruce Hi: Why does the median lobe PVP procedure, cause retrograde more than the PVP surgery for enlargement of the outer lobes? Thanks, Corky My understanding is that the probability of retrograde increases directly proportional to the amount of work that needs to be done on the bladder neck. With a median lobe extending into the bladder neck and thereby causing obstruction, it becomes necessary to remove the obstructing tissue. Often, that obstructing tissue resides at the bladder neck, requiring laser ablation and therefore retro. As Dr Sancha wrote in an earlier post, there is about 10-20% chance of retro when an incision is made in the bladder neck to provide a greater opening. And if I understand his earlier post, once complete ablation of the bladder neck is done, the probability of retro increases to 60 or more percent. I would wonder if "complete ablation of the bladder neck" doesn't really mean 100% retro? In my case even though I was supposed to have "bladder neck sparing PVP", a single incision was made at the bladder neck to make a larger opening when the PVP was done. At 62 weeks post PVP, there is no question that I have retro. Some with retro report no change in sensation. In my case I definitely missed the "pumping" sensation of ejaculation. More recently, the "pumping" sensation is starting to return even though it results in a dry climax. The risk of retro is the price paid for the relief from bph. > Hi: Why does the median lobe PVP procedure, cause retrograde more than > the PVP surgery for enlargement of the outer lobes? Thanks, Corky >My understanding is that the probability of retrograde increases >directly proportional to the amount of work that needs to be done on the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >return even though it results in a dry climax. The risk of retro is the >price paid for the relief from bph. I had a TURP done last September. I'm 55. My prostate was severly enlarged, requiring self-cathing several times a day for two weeks prior to the surgery. Over 30 g. of tissue was removed. My uro told me I'd have retro, so I expected it. Although the general sensation of orgasm is the same, I too miss the feeling of semen "surging" through the urethra. I'd say about 20% of the pleasurable sensation of orgasm is now gone. I suppose it will be somewhat different for each patient. But, like many other men, I had no choice. I'm 55 and married, so the embarrassment is not an issue, but I do sympathize with the younger man who might still be dating. I'm enormously grateful to all you guys who are taking the time to describe, in detail, how it feels to have retro. The decision I now face, whether to get a PVP with a likelihood of retro in my case, is one of the most difficult I've ever had to make. And your frank descriptions of how retro has changed your sexual experience is precisely the information I need at this point. I'm currently on flomax, which works well for me, but I hate taking medication of any kind because I don't know what damage it might be doing to my body. And I have to continually increase the dosage. Even though I'm only taking a half dose every other day, at the rate I'm going-and from comments by other posters-it's clear that flomax is only a temporary solution. I also feel that there's some time pressure, because I don't want to end up with a bladder that's damaged. I'm trying my damnedest to improve my stream through dietary changes, but not succeeding. I've tried saw palmetto and the usual stuff, and it's not working. So it sounds like virtually all you guys with retro feel that it reduces your pleasure. But you also seem to be saying-correct me if I'm wrong-that it's not the end of your sexual life either. I know that you, Eddie, who started this thread, say you've stopped dating at this point. But you also say "the feeling is the same," though you're embarrassed by the lack of visible ejaculate. I wonder if you're exaggerating a bit about the feeling being the same. If I managed to end up with the same sensation that would be great news to me, but most guys feel differently. Larry Clapp, the prostate expert, says that retro eliminates MOST of the pleasure. (Though I don't think he has it himself.) I think most of you guys with retro would disagree with that too. Am I right? There's also at least one visitor to this newsgroup who has said repeatedly that retro has eliminated ALL his pleasure. That's scarey. He's really bitter about getting PVP, though I'm not sure what options he had. Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud. To be embarrassingly frank about this, sex is a solo act for me these days. I have no partner, nor am I looking for one. But the pleasure I get is still meaningful to me. To give a surgeon the go-ahead to change that forever feels like a really, really, hard thing to do. Bruce  SignatureX-No-Archive: yes > I'm enormously grateful to all you guys who are taking the time to > describe, in detail, how it feels to have retro. The decision I now [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Bruce Hi Bruce I'd say retro eliminates 95% of the pleasure of the orgasm, but most of the pleasure of sex is derived from an erection and the thrusting that goes along with it. My orgasms only lasted 5 seconds or so anyway. There have been other posters on this NG (Bong, for one) who claim no reduction in pleasure from retro, and that their partners like not having the mess to clean up. My uro told me to expect retro, and that would have been a worthwhile tradeoff, but I'm one of the lucky ones -- aggressive median lobe removal but no retro. At 6 weeks post-PVP I am still healing; some urgency, some burning at the finish of urination, passing an occasional clot, but complete relief of BPH symptoms with no meds. The healing process is my one caution to those considering PVP. Don't expect to be completely normal in a couple of weeks, as the hype would have you believe. You have a huge, charred hole in your prostate and it takes some time to heal. Still, if I never got any better than I am right now, it would have been well worth it. Imagine walking into a men's room and finishing before some guy who was already in there. That's a feeling that's hard to top. >I'm enormously grateful to all you guys who are taking the time to >describe, in detail, how it feels to have retro. The decision I now [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >Bruce Please don't misunderstand, Bruce. The surgery has not diminished my ability to sustain erections, nor my ability to climax diuring sex. In fact, before the surgery, I began to notice some difficulty sustaining an erection. Although my uro wasn't promising me that the surgery would help that, it definitely did. I let my condition go for years, suffered so much discomfort, so many bouts of infections and and trips to the emergency room with pain and burning. When last checked, before the surgery, I was retaining 1150 ml. of urine. I know - I watched as the uro tech inserted the catheter and switched containers in mid-stream. The look of disbelief on their faces was frightening. 80% of an orgasm is still 80% of an orgasm. There are many less fortunate men that, because of less sophistocated surgery in the past, or nerve damage from more radical surgery, are left impotent. Even at that, like others here have said, without your health, you really do have nothing. I was so miserable for two years before the surgery, sex was infrequent and seldom that pleasureable due to my worry and discomfort. Looking back, I was very foolish to wait so long. I could have lost a kidney, or damaged my bladder to the extent that I'd have to self-cath for the rest of my life. I did that for two weeks before the TURP, several times a day. Trust me, you don't want that. As we grow older, we all must face the sacrifices we're forced to make. We can't run as fast, recover from illness as quickly, or have sex as long or as often as we once could. We can fight these facts of life, become bitter and resentful, wallow in self-pity, or, we can stay healthy and find pleasure in the life we have left. I choose the latter. I'm very serious when I say that my orgasms are just as powerful as before. I am not exaggerating in the least bit. The PVP caused retro for me and I've never noticed any diminished feeling when I orgasm. I've read some the responses here and I'm starting to realize that maybe I'm making a bit much of the retro. At times I've ejaculated very clear fluid with some white in it. But that's usually after taking meds for allergies that contain decongestants. I can't speak for everyone on this board but it's only affected the ability to ejaculate and not the intensity of orgasm. Anyone else experience the same intense orgasms with retro like me? >I'm enormously grateful to all you guys who are taking the time to >describe, in detail, how it feels to have retro. The decision I now [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >Bruce From: u9236@uwe (eddievelez1970 via MedKB.com) I'm very serious when I say that my orgasms are just as powerful as before. I am not exaggerating in the least bit. The PVP caused retro for me and I've never noticed any diminished feeling when I orgasm. I've read some the responses here and I'm starting to realize that maybe I'm making a bit much of the retro. At times I've ejaculated very clear fluid with some white in it. But that's usually after taking meds for allergies that contain decongestants. I can't speak for everyone on this board but it's only affected the ability to ejaculate and not the intensity of orgasm. Anyone else experience the same intense orgasms with retro like me? ========== i would have to take the same position on this as i have with the removal of the prostate and orgasms. there are some men who will actually have a better orgasm after PVP or some other type treatment for BPH. why? i've not seen any answers to that. the same is true for the quality of orgasms after the removal of the prostate. why do a certain per cent have a more intense feeling AFTER the prostate is gone than with it? so, let's look into what the orgasm is all about. they say the brain is the big sex organ. that is true from that view point, but this is not to be confused with the orgasm center. the orgasm center is located at the of the base of the spine and the prostate. it is the nerve central. the messages that are sent back and forth there and then sent to the brain to produce the final electro-chemo result that makes the orgasm a good one or a so - so one. it is involved in the release of the chemicals of the brain that determines that. that is why drugs, such as meth, opiates, and others are so popular, because of the effect they have over the release of the chemicals in the brain. but going back to the prostate. if you go to a detailed picture of the prostate, you will see that there are nerve bundles on the sides of the prostate. these have nothing to do with the erectile nerves passing along the side of it. these nerves attached to the prostate have to do with the feedback loops one feels. in the case of prostatitis, they carry messages for that to. but staying with the theme of orgasm here. the feelings that one gets from the inside of the prostate at the time is what it is all about. the prostate is being pushed on by the muscle groups surrounding it in a rhythmic fashion. now, if someone has a prostate stone blocking an acini, you might feel pain at that time. or you might feel the flow of the fluids throught it, at that time, or if your body has gotten to the point where fluids aren't as much as they were before, or if your body has lose it's muscle tone due to the reduction of testosterone due to aging (these muscles weaken as well) you will feel the lack of it as well. the nerves are merely feedback to the spine. as to what dictates a great orgasm. it's one of those that answers that is going to be as individual as can be. just as much as why does the orgasm vary from time to time with the same person. then, factor in a change to the prostate. whether it is from aging, a treatment for BPH or the removal of the prostate. so, this is what i will say to those who still have the great orgasms - enjoy them. and burn each one deep into your mind as it happens. because there may come a time that something will happen to where the orgasms will not be like that. and each of us are living proof that orgasms vary and can change with time, whether it is one way or the other. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc > From: u9236@uwe (eddievelez1970 via MedKB.com) > [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > ~ curtis Curtis...where did you learn or study all this :-) ...Pete > knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is > optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing > old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc >> My understanding is that the probability of retrograde increases >> directly proportional to the amount of work that needs to be done on [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > embarrassment is not an issue, but I do sympathize with the younger > man who might still be dating. What's dating ?? :-) SignatureX-No-Archive: yes > Hi Eddie, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks, > Bruce Hi Eddie, Bruce I have retro after a PVP. It makes the orgasm less pleasurable. But it's not like I had a choice. The choice was to be able to urinate and have retro or take 2-3 minutes to urinate never being sure if I would be able to. But I got great orgasms with plentiful ejaculate. It was an easy choice to make. > I have retro after a PVP. It makes the orgasm less pleasurable. But it's > not like I had a choice. The choice was to be able to urinate and have > retro or take 2-3 minutes to urinate never being sure if I would be able to. > But I got great orgasms with plentiful ejaculate. Hi Tony, Are you saying that despite having retro, you still have plenty of ejaculate? I thought that retro means that there is no, or very little, ejaculate coming out. Bruce SignatureX-No-Archive: yes > >> I have retro after a PVP. It makes the orgasm less pleasurable. But [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Bruce Hi Bruce, I was unclear. I have virtually no ejaculate also the sensation of orgasm is diminished quite a bit. But I had no choice. Had I done nothing, I would have had to continually strain to urinate and also have to urinate every 30 to 60 minutes. Not much of a decision for me. My only regret is I didn't have the operation when I first started to have problems. I had two prior TUIP operations. The first resulted in a small amount of retro, but the incision closed and I then had a surgical incision instead of the laser incision. I had similar results for about 2 years then had the PVP. I just had a cysto which showed partial blockage. The doc and I decided to wait a year or two before trying any more surgery since my symptoms are not severe. The only bothersome symptom is not being able to sleep for more than 2-3 hours, but another PVP is not guaranteed to cure that symptom. My doc recommended a TURP, but I think I'd just go for another PVP and see what happens, but that will be in the future. I too have retro. If you want to send me a direct email, I can share with you my experience. I am a bit shy about sharing it on the ng. > Well it's been a year now since my surgery and sadly I have to say that the > retrograde seems permanent. I have ejaculated a few times but very little [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It has affected my dating in which now I don't go out looking for sex anymore. > I too have retro. If you want to send me a direct email, I can share > with you my experience. I am a bit shy about sharing it on the ng. How has your recovery been. I have not seen you on for a while. Don't be shy, we're all boys together and your experience will be of interest to others about to take the PVP path. I don't have retro but would not have minded if I had as long as the sensation was OK. Derek. >I too have retro. If you want to send me a direct email, I can share with >you my experience. I am a bit shy about sharing it on the ng. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> would really like to talk with someone about it. It has affected my >> dating in which now I don't go out looking for sex anymore. You can reach me at eddie528@gmail.com >I too have retro. If you want to send me a direct email, I can share >with you my experience. I am a bit shy about sharing it on the ng. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> It has affected my dating in which now I don't go out looking for sex anymore. > Well it's been a year now since my surgery and sadly I have to say > that the retrograde seems permanent. I have ejaculated a few times [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > It has affected my dating in which now I don't go out looking for sex > anymore. Hi guys...remember I am a staunch regular here, but I have to make a comment about all this that you can laugh at me about if you want, and call me weird, or whatever. I was going to write this long ago, but I can no longer resist. I believe Bruce will appreciate this, since he mentioned he went solo :-), which incited me to write this. I have read all the replies with great interest. I have been married twice, retired early, and live alone with my two cats (and am going to die a lonely old man), and I haven't been laid in years, and will never have sex again because I do not date, and will not date. Dating sucks, and I can't even spell it, and I couldn't catch a cold (but I'm really not a bad looking guy - lol). I have to use the five finger discount to try and keep my prostate flushed out, and that is very difficult at times because of all the friggin discomfort I have in the perineal area or pelvic floor, etc (ie I'm not in the mood to have sex anyway much of the time). So I really get a kick out of all you guys worrying about your retrograde. IMO the relief from urinary retention, and urge, and difficulty peeing, etc, far outweighs even talking about the tradeoff. Go ahead and suffer if you want. I live in misery, and the uro's can not help me (as I have reported before), and it goes beyond BPH. If you don't have your health you have nothing. Take it for what it's worth. No rebuttals please. Of course I am not against sex, and used to be pretty good at it, but not being able to pee is serious stuff. I could not live with a catheter, and then you have to worry about infections from a catheter, or infections from retaining urine even if you are not using a catheter, and the risk of it backing up to the kidneys, etc. This is not to discount your thoughts, but I think you have your priorities mixed up, or you are not living in true discomfort. Remember - without your health you have nothing...Pete I have been married twice, retired early, and live alone with my two cats (and am going to die a lonely old man), and I haven't been laid in years, and will never have sex again because I do not date, and will not date. Dating sucks, and I can't even spell it, and I couldn't catch a cold (but I'm really not a bad looking guy - lol). I have to use the five finger discount to try and keep my prostate flushed out, and that is very difficult at times because of all the friggin discomfort I have in the perineal area or pelvic floor, etc (ie I'm not in the mood to have sex anyway much of the time). So I really get a kick out of all you guys worrying about your retrograde. IMO the relief from urinary retention, and urge, and difficulty peeing, etc, far outweighs even talking about the tradeoff. Go ahead and suffer if you want. I live in misery, and the uro's can not help me (as I have reported before), and it goes beyond BPH. If you don't have your health you have nothing. Remember - without your health you have nothing...Pete ========== how right you are on your last sentence pete........ i feel like i have to add my .02 cents on this one. this orgasm topic has been brought up at various times at the alt.prostate.cancer.support newsgroup from time to time. having the prostate and all the plumbing ripped out, i am way beyond what is going on here...... but i was a member of this group at one time, due to the problems that the prostate was giving me. do i miss the good old times... yes. but it was the price that i had to pay in order to extend my life. do i still have a sex life.... yes. can still get the erections and do all the other things too. so, what's the difference about this orgasm feeling? well, for what it is worth - they did a study of men who had their prostate taken out and the quality of orgasms afterwards. about 60% had a feeling of lesser orgasms than before, but about 20% have greater feeling of intensity AFTER the removal of the prostate. and some have found out that that they are even multi-orgasmic, where they weren't before. the bottom line is this........ it's what is important to you - as an individual. if the feeling and sight of semen is high on your list, then have a TURP or PVP would be looked at, by you, as a threat. if you have wanting just plain relief to pee, then the TURP or PVP would be looked at as a blessing. personally, my vote and the way i feel...... when i had the prostate, things were 80% not working right in terms of the ejaculation process as compared to the way they were in younger years. so, in that respect, i wasn't losing much. but, in terms of peeing....... i'm 98% back to my younger years. my prostate had pushed into the floor of my bladder, and now, the bladder is able to fill up completely without that feeling that you have to go all the time. the stream is like that of a teenager. under 15 seconds with a gut busting bladder. before surgery, 2-3 minutes was common, not counting all the frequencies during the day and at night. and again, i would have to echo the same thing pete said..... Remember - without your health you have nothing... ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc > I have been married twice, retired early, and live alone with my two > cats (and am going to die a lonely old man), and I haven't been laid [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > ~ curtis Thank you Curtis...You and me are definitely on the same track. Take care...Pete Pete -- It sounds like you and I have suffered the same kinds of long-term side-effects: retention, cathing, pelvic floor dysfunction (meaning you can't s*** as well as not piss), etc. Let's talk. I have been going through hell for 11 months and would trade one good piss for a thousand good orgasms (well , maybe a hundred) at this point. I am scheduled for PVP in a week or twio, but have tried many other things too, including an Interstim trial. Please get in touch so we can compare notes. maybe we could help each other out. I have known nothing but severe pain and agonizing full-body spasms for almost a year now .... So I agree that there are some others who do not know how lucky they are. Richard (docsafari@hotmail.com) P.S. I had retrograde too, but it went away. Problem is that the pain far outweighs the pleasure. > > Well it's been a year now since my surgery and sadly I have to say > > that the retrograde seems permanent. I have ejaculated a few times [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > mixed up, or you are not living in true discomfort. Remember - without your > health you have nothing...Pete Richard...My heart goes out to you and I would be glad to e-mail you but I'm sure your problems are more serious than mine, and I do not have cancer and have never self cathed, but I have some Lofric samples in case I ever feel I need to. If you read my posts recently (or in the past, I kind of describe my problems, so I will not repeat them. I have a problem with doctors and they do not explain things near as good as our doctor Sancha does, and usually they don't explain anything and can't answer my questions, and all I get is "I don't know". I am what is known as the "problem patient", which is a medical term that especially applies to urologists. There are terms called CPPS, and Prostatodynia, and of course non bacterial prostatitis - as well as what I call the prostatitis/urethritis/cystitis continuum. These terms probably are where I fit in somehow, but so what - I don't get better. I had a TUIP in 1995 and TURP last year, like I have said, and now I am still having problems, plus I have other medical problems including stomach, sarcoidosis, T4 cell counts below 200 (non HIV cause unknown - which definitely opens me up for cancer IMO), and enlarged lymph nodes. Let me know if you still want me to write you and we could even talk over the phone if you like, but be prepared for some doctor horror stories - lol . I really wish more doctors were like Dr. Sancha. He might not be able to help me, but I know I could talk to him and he would know the right avenues to pursue, instead of me asking for all the tests and procedures, like I have been doing with my current string of uro's. And then the bastards put notes in your file that you read too much, and have misinformation about things you never said, or examinations that they never did. It's amazing, everyone should get a complete copy of their records every so often (especially for involved ailments with repeated visits, etc). Sorry, I am rambling again. Take care...Pete > Pete -- It sounds like you and I have suffered the same kinds of > long-term side-effects: retention, cathing, pelvic floor dysfunction [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] >> priorities mixed up, or you are not living in true discomfort. >> Remember - without your health you have nothing...Pete Another factor in the intensity of orgasm is the meds you take for the BPH. Flomax, Hytrin, and Avodart all caused poorer erections, reduced intensity, and reduced ejaculate for me. After the PVP, I no longer need to take any of those meds, or the Flonase that I took to deal with the nasal congestion from the Flomax/Hytrin. Sexual function is not back to pre-BPH levels (then again, NOTHING works as well as it did ten years ago), but erection quality, intensity, and ejaculate are all better than pre-PVP. Dear all, Patients tell very different stories related to retro. Many are happy with it because they do not care so much about sex anymore. Others think that the balance is positive, because they pee five or six times a day, and they get laid probably once every month, and although the pleasure is less, they experience a significant improvement in their quality of life. Some others are unhappy and live retro as an important loss in their lifes. When you see them after the years, most of them got used to the new situation and if they experience lower intensity orgasms, they get used to it and still have a good and happy life. I have seen people that never recover emotionally from it, and they regret they had the operation, but I must say that I think they are a little bit pessimistic and they remain fixed in their problem, rather than focus in other good aspects of life. If you have retro after prostatic surgery, it is unlikely that it will get better, so you can choose to feel depressed about it and never recover, or you can choose to try to get the best out of your life.... getting old is really sad, we are all going to die one day, but if there is life there is hope. I see a lot of patients that are ill only in their minds, they concentrate on the negative aspects of their problems, and they do not use their powerful mind to focus on other positive aspects...... Also, I also think sex is not confined to orgasm alone. There are many other pleasurable aspects of it. I would explore those... I have seen some patients who are impotent after pelvic surgery carry very satisfactory sexual lifes and have very satisfied wifes, because they are creative and focus more on the sentimental and sensual part of the sexual relationship.... they are the kind of people that make the best out of what they have... I would encourage that spirit..... Fernando Gómez Sancha http://drgomezsancha2.blogspot.com After PVP my orgasms are actually increasing in intensity. AND, I can pee well, even after about 1.5 yrs following PVP. So, I must be very lucky since I have the best of both worlds. However, I do have a bit of "Leaky Faucet", about one or two drops of urine per 2 or 3 hours of sitting. "Leaky faucet" was coined by some guy on a blog that I have referenced in other posts. And...I have erections of such intensity that I have never enjoyed even before PVP. This is an FYI only and I am not expecting a response, knowing how busy you must be. Thanks for contributing to this newsgroup. You certainly make it a valuable exercise to read your posts. Thank you. Dear all, Patients tell very different stories related to retro. Many are happy with it because they do not care so much about sex anymore. ...[SNIP] Pete -- It sounds like you and I have suffered the same kinds of long-term side-effects: retention, cathing, pelvic floor dysfunction (meaning you can't s*** as well as not piss), etc. Let's talk. I have been going through hell for 11 months and would trade one good piss for a thousand good orgasms (well , maybe a hundred) at this point. I am scheduled for PVP in a week or twio, but have tried many other things too, including an Interstim trial. Please get in touch so we can compare notes. maybe we could help each other out. I have known nothing but severe pain and agonizing full-body spasms for almost a year now .... So I agree that there are some others who do not know how lucky they are. Richard (docsafari@hotmail.com) P.S. I had retrograde too, but it went away. Problem is that the pain far outweighs the pleasure. > > Well it's been a year now since my surgery and sadly I have to say > > that the retrograde seems permanent. I have ejaculated a few times [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > mixed up, or you are not living in true discomfort. Remember - without your > health you have nothing...Pete |
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