Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate BPH / February 2006
saw palmetto not effective?
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Gunther Abrahamson - 25 Feb 2006 20:06 GMT WEDNESDAY, Feb. 8, 2006 (HealthDay News) -- Millions of older American men use the herbal supplement saw palmetto to treat an enlarged prostate, but a new study concludes the product doesn't work.
A few smaller studies had suggested the extract might be of limited benefit to men with enlarged prostate, clinically known as benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH).
However, this controlled, blinded study of 225 men found that, "over a 12-month period, saw palmetto was no better than placebo in changing symptoms for this condition," said lead researcher Dr. Stephen Bent, an assistant professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco.
His team's research, published in the Feb. 9 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine, is "the most thorough and well-controlled study of the effect of saw palmetto on men with BPH that's ever been done," added Dr. Ronald A. Morton, director of urologic oncology at the Cancer Institute of New Jersey.
Morton, who co-authored a related editorial on the findings, said, "Obviously, for anyone who holds saw palmetto in high regard, these results are a little bit disappointing."
Still, both experts agreed there's no evidence that the herb -- an extract of a seed from a scrub palm that grows naturally in the southeastern United States -- poses any long-term safety hazard to users.
"So, if people are taking this and feel like they are getting some benefit, I think it's worth continuing," Bent said.
He noted that the science on the efficacy of saw palmetto for BPH has been ambiguous, with some studies suggesting a benefit and others finding it to be of no help at all.
"Those studies were of short duration, however, or they didn't use what is now the standard measure of symptoms," Bent said. "They also didn't report on what we call the 'adequacy of blinding' -- we never knew in these prior studies whether patients in the placebo group knew they were on placebo or not."
His team sought to redress a lot of those issues, taking special care to ensure proper blinding and using a pool of patients large enough to gain sufficient statistical power.
They also went to great lengths to choose a top-notch product -- in this case, a brand of saw palmetto capsules marketed in the United States by Rexall-Sundown Co. "We had an external advisory committee from the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, experts in the field, who evaluated a number of different extracts," Bent said. "They felt this was the best one."
Rexall-Sundown did not respond to requests for comment.
In the trial, the researchers tracked the symptoms of 225 men over the age of 49 with moderate-to-severe BPH. Half of the men took 160 milligrams of saw palmetto twice daily, while the other half took an inactive placebo.
At the one-year mark, the researchers found no difference between the two groups in terms of symptom scores, urine flow rates, prostate size, quality of life, or blood levels of prostate-specific antigen (PSA), a marker for enlarged prostate.
Morton agreed with Bent that saw palmetto is probably safe for users. But he questioned whether too many men plagued by enlarged prostate are using this ineffective remedy in lieu of conventional drugs whose efficacy has long been supported by clinical research.
"There are two medications that we commonly use for men with BPH," said Morton, who is also chief of the division of urology at Robert Wood Johnson Medical School at the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey. "One includes drugs called alpha blockers, and the other group is 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors. Alpha blockers cause a relaxation of the prostate that makes it easier for a man to urinate. And 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors shrink the prostate."
Either of these medications might be more effective than over-the-counter saw palmetto, Morton said.
He held out the possibility that formulations other than the Rexall-Sundown brand used in the study might still be of benefit to some users. "I do believe, though, that the investigators went to great lengths to ensure the purity of the compound that they were testing," he said.
In a statement, Andrew Shao, vice president of the Council for Responsible Nutrition, a supplements industry trade group, called the findings "puzzling, given that more than 20 studies have shown promising findings for saw palmetto in alleviating symptoms commonly associated with prostate problems."
He agreed the study was "well-designed," but blamed its negative findings on the researchers' focus on patients with moderate-to-severe BPH. According to Shao, the bulk of the positive literature on saw palmetto involves men with milder symptoms.
"The exclusion of those patients with mild symptoms from the study may have reduced [its] ability to detect the benefits we've seen in other trials," he said.
A much bigger issue, according to Bent and Morton, is the lack of regulation and oversight of herbals and other alternative medicines, which are not tested or checked for quality by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in the same way that conventional drugs are.
"There are millions and millions of men out there who take saw palmetto," Morton said. "And if you review the literature on saw palmetto, it's really all over the map. Quite frankly, I'm not certain that the FDA would approve it -- I'm pretty certain they would not. But it's simply not held to the same standard."
Michael Balarama - 25 Feb 2006 21:16 GMT seems to work for me-I take 225 mg extract every night- Michael
> WEDNESDAY, Feb. 8, 2006 (HealthDay News) -- Millions of older American men > use the herbal supplement saw palmetto to treat an enlarged prostate, but [quoted text clipped - 105 lines] > approve it -- I'm pretty certain they would not. But it's simply not held > to the same standard." Michael Balarama - 26 Feb 2006 01:19 GMT I was wrong--I take 480 mg extract every night- Michael
> seems to work for me-I take 225 mg extract every night- > Michael [quoted text clipped - 108 lines] > > approve it -- I'm pretty certain they would not. But it's simply not held > > to the same standard." Rich256 - 26 Feb 2006 02:40 GMT As I recall the study made some comment to the effect that higher dosages might produce different results. I think the recommended amount is typically 320 mg a day.
Someone I know takes about double the recommended amount and swears it helps him.
Even that doesn't do a thing for me.
> I was wrong--I take 480 mg extract every night- > Michael [quoted text clipped - 136 lines] > held >>> to the same standard." Ed - 26 Feb 2006 02:56 GMT >As I recall the study made some comment to the effect that higher >dosages might produce different results. I think the recommended amount [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Even that doesn't do a thing for me. I'm not surprised that folks believe in it. The studies show that 75% report improvement of symptoms.
As you say, an increased dose might help. Who knows. There is undoubtedly more to be discovered. The previous studies appear to have missed something. Likewise the latest study will not be the last to shed light on the subject either.
SP taken according to recommendations produces no or few side effects. If one jacks up the dose to the point where it becomes effective, then side effects could start to become significant too. I would be real careful straying into unknown territory by tinkering with potentially harmful stuff.
Anyway, they already have meds that fulfill the role that we wish for SP, like Proscar. They put those meds through a lot of tests to make sure they are safe. I would stick with the known treatment, under supervision of a doc.
BTW, Proscar is known to be effective in most cases for reducing prostate size, but the effect on flow rate is less dramatic and in many cases it doesn't help very much.
Ed
Paul Kelly - 25 Feb 2006 22:33 GMT (Snip)
Well it helped me big time and quickly.
Read the following
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band73/b73-2.html
Extract: Comment
There is good evidence that Saw palmetto is effective in men with symptoms of benign Prostatic hyperplasia. Finasteride is now considered to be best used in men with larger prostate volumes ( Bandolier 46 ) and, consequently, disease that may be considered more severe. We also have excellent efficacy and adverse effect information from a very large randomised trial ( Bandolier 50 , [3]). We don't quite have the same extent of information for Saw palmetto. The evidence on Saw palmetto is sufficient, though, to make it worth considering for men with milder symptoms.
 Signature PK Remove the xtra y from my name in the email address if replying
c palmer - 26 Feb 2006 01:20 GMT Millions of older American men use the herbal supplement saw palmetto to treat an enlarged prostate, but a new study concludes the product doesn't work. =========
i think that is what the public is missing in the above paragraph. SP doesn't do anything to treat the enlarged prostate condition, but it DOES relieve the symptoms of BPH. there is a difference.
as long as the user understands that taking SP is making him feel better, and that the BPH condition is not getting any better just because of his well being, then, i don't see any problems with that.
~ curtis
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Pete - 26 Feb 2006 02:29 GMT > Millions of older American men use the herbal supplement saw palmetto > to treat an enlarged prostate, but a new study concludes the product [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > SP doesn't do anything to treat the enlarged prostate condition, but > it DOES relieve the symptoms of BPH. there is a difference. Curtis...I'm not sure I agree with this. I don't take SP, but I have stated in this ng before that the active ingredient in it for inhibiting dyhydrotestosterone is beta sistosterol, and that I thought it would be better to take concentrated beta sitosterol.
So if you are saying that it doesn't help reduce the size of the prostate (in time of course), and it only "relieves the symptoms of BPH", by what vehicle are you assuming it relieves the symptoms, if not by prostate size reduction :-) ...Pete
> as long as the user understands that taking SP is making him feel > better, and that the BPH condition is not getting any better just [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc c palmer - 26 Feb 2006 22:45 GMT From: pete@nospam.net (Pete) c palmer wrote: Millions of older American men use the herbal supplement saw palmetto to treat an enlarged prostate, but a new study concludes the product doesn't work. ========= i think that is what the public is missing in the above paragraph. SP doesn't do anything to treat the enlarged prostate condition, but it DOES relieve the symptoms of BPH. there is a difference.
Curtis...I'm not sure I agree with this. I don't take SP, but I have stated in this ng before that the active ingredient in it for inhibiting dyhydrotestosterone is beta sistosterol, and that I thought it would be better to take concentrated beta sitosterol. So if you are saying that it doesn't help reduce the size of the prostate (in time of course), and it only "relieves the symptoms of BPH", by what vehicle are you assuming it relieves the symptoms, if not by prostate size reduction :-) ...Pete as long as the user understands that taking SP is making him feel better, and that the BPH condition is not getting any better just because of his well being, then, i don't see any problems with that. ~ curtis
=========
hi pete - i think that ED said it best with....
But as you point out, Curtis, the underlying condition (prostate growth) is not changing, and will catch you in the end. Ed
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the physical BPH condition itself is not changing, the symptoms are changing and if a man can get relief, any kind of relief, from whatever herb or pill, is good news.
and as the individual taking something for the symptoms - understand this, i don't see a problem.
it's when someone is taking something with the understanding that the BPH condition is going to go away that is a problem.
i'm not trying to stand on a soap box and preach to the choir about BPH conditions and symptoms. anyone here knows what they are going through.
where i'm coming from is that the prostate is changing as we age and we have to stay on top of it's condition and monitor it if you want to stay alive and in good health.
nobody wants to get the bad news of prostate cancer. nobody wants BPH either.
i've just found in talking with men, that they that what they are taking is working and they don't want to look further.
my dad was one of them. when he died from prostate cancer. i must have found 24 empty bottles of prostra formula laying around. when i read the label, it made some tall claims and one of the main ingredients was SP.
i think there really is a place for SP in BPH. but, i guess the bottom line is........ at what point does the person come to grips and realize that the physical condition isn't getting any better and that taking more SP is not the answer.
~ curtis
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Pete - 27 Feb 2006 02:44 GMT Curtis...I still don't agree, and you didn't explain what the vehicle is whereby it reduces symptoms. I believe the main way that SP is supposed to relieve BPH symptoms (via the beta sitosterol in it inhibiting dyhydrotestosterone) is by eventually helping to reduce the size of the prostate (or by lessoning the rate of increase of the prostate), similar to proscar. Otherwise, I don't see how it can relieve your symptoms (ie better flow, less retention, less urge, etc). We can let this lay :-) ...Pete
> From: pete@nospam.net (Pete) > c palmer wrote: [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc c palmer - 27 Feb 2006 09:18 GMT hi pete - i did some digging and found this article about the technical part of how the experiment was conducted. whether or not anyone agrees with the end results is....well.....up to them. all i am is the messager......
~ curtis
========
In their study, the researchers randomly assigned patients with enlargement of the prostate, also known as or benign prostate hyperplasia or BPH, to take either saw palmetto or a placebo twice a day for one year. Subjects returned at regular intervals to be assessed for symptoms and side effects. Symptoms were assessed according to a standard symptom score for BPH and objective measures of urinary function. "If you look at the change in symptoms over time between the two groups, it was almost identical," reports Bent, who is also an assistant professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco. "There was no statistically significant difference at any time point during the study." The researchers also looked at subgroups of patients - those with more and less severe symptoms and those with larger and smaller prostates - and found no difference in any of the subgroups between the herbal extract and placebo. "The results of this study clearly do not support a strong clinical benefit of saw palmetto for BPH," concludes Bent. "However, whether other doses, formulations, or patient populations might respond differently is unknown." The researchers estimate that saw palmetto is used by over two million men in the United States for treatment of BPH, which is said by the National Institutes of Health to affect more than 50 percent of men over 60 and upwards of 90 percent of men over 70. Bent acknowledges that the study results are surprising, since many earlier studies concluded that saw palmetto is effective against BPH. However, he points out a number of differences between the current study and earlier research. "Prior studies were generally small in size and short in duration," he says. "Plus, the vast majority of them did not use the standard symptom score that we used for assessing the severity of BPH," which is now commonly used to judge the efficacy of pharmaceutical drugs for treatment of the condition. Another potential problem with earlier studies has to do with the nature of saw palmetto itself, according to Bent. "This is a very pungent herb, and it took our research team a long time to create a placebo that convincingly duplicates its strong smell and taste. We suspect that prior trials didn't adequately address that problem." As a result, he says, "it's possible that some of the positive findings in earlier work may be due to the fact that the blinding wasn't adequate." In other words, patients in those studies knew whether they were taking the herb or the placebo, and "someone who's taking something that's smelly and likely to be the plant extract is perhaps more likely to report a benefit than someone who's taking an odorless and tasteless tablet." At the end of the current study, 40 percent of patients in the saw palmetto group believed they were taking the herbal extract versus 46 percent in the placebo group, demonstrating that the blinding was adequate, says Bent. Bent notes that his research team took pains to select an herbal product that matched the levels of fatty acids and sterols - commonly believed to be saw palmetto's active ingredients - found in most commonly available commercial preparations of the herb. Almost all prior studies of saw palmetto used exactly the same dose, says Bent - 160 milligrams twice a day - and the current study used that dose as well. He notes that such consistency of dose is not typical among studies of most other herbal medications. The current study subjects reported no statistically significant side effects from saw palmetto. Bent cautions that while the study is strongly indicative, it is not conclusive. "This is a surprising finding that contradicts the weight of prior evidence," he observes. "There is good reason for other researchers to conduct another study to validate these results, taking care that blinding is done carefully once again." In addition, says Bent, "Some people believe that higher doses may be potentially effective, and that's an area that we did not address." A major new NIH-funded study of saw palmetto and another commonly-used herbal treatment for BPH is currently in the final planning stages, according to Avins, who is a co-author of the current study. The new study will involve several hundred patients at 11 centers nationwide, and researchers hope it will shed more definitive light on the questions of adequate doses and other potentially useful natural treatments for BPH, says Avins. Other co-authors of the current study include Christopher Kane, MD, and Katsuto Shinohara, MD, of SFVAMC; John Neuhaus, PhD, and Esther S. Hudes, PhD, MPH, of UCSF; and Harley Goldberg, DO, of UCSF and KPNC.
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Ed - 26 Feb 2006 02:31 GMT >Millions of older American men use the herbal supplement saw palmetto to >treat an enlarged prostate, but a new study concludes the product [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >~ curtis A placebo also helps the symptoms. The more the placebo resembles SP, the more effective it is. What this really says is that SP doesn't work... it's in the user's mind.
Or conversely I guess you could say that SP as well as placebos work if the user believes they will work. And if the user is okay with that, then that is okay.
But as you point out, Curtis, the underlying condition (prostate growth) is not changing, and will catch you in the end.
Ed
Mason C - 26 Feb 2006 03:23 GMT >WEDNESDAY, Feb. 8, 2006 (HealthDay News) -- Millions of older American men >use the herbal supplement saw palmetto to treat an enlarged prostate, but [quoted text clipped - 105 lines] >approve it -- I'm pretty certain they would not. But it's simply not held >to the same standard." Who financed this test?
Why was the standard drug, finasteride(?), not included?
Discredite the herb; sell more prescription drug that is no better?
Mason C
Gunther Abrahamson - 26 Feb 2006 17:57 GMT Mason C (masonc2@earthlink.net) writes> On 25 Feb 2006 20:06:33 GMT, aa994@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Gunther Abrahamson)
> wrote: Who financed this test?
Why was the standard drug, finasteride(?), not included?
Discredite the herb; sell more prescription drug that is no better?
Mason C
GOOD POINT !! SP works for me.
Michael Balarama - 27 Feb 2006 02:40 GMT > Mason C (masonc2@earthlink.net) writes> On 25 Feb 2006 20:06:33 GMT, aa994@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Gunther Abrahamson) > > wrote: > > > Who financed this test? That is ALWAYS the question on these natural type of questions...Drug companies do not want natural cures. like , zinc sulfate,soy isoflavones saw palmetto extract , beta sitostero ,Pygeum, Nettleroot powder, Rye pollen extract, Pumpkin seed powder,
Michael
> Why was the standard drug, finasteride(?), not included? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > GOOD POINT !! > SP works for me. Ed Friedman - 28 Feb 2006 20:49 GMT You have to take this study with a grain of salt. No mention was made of any of the hormone levels of the patients involved, which is the key to understanding BPH. This study was limited to patients with severe BPH, so it is reasonable to assume that these men had low levels of T. Since, according to my model, you need higher levels of T in order for saw palmetto to be effective (which would explain why other studies involving mild BPH showed a positive effect for saw palmetto), it would be expected that men with severe BPH would show no improvement.
Ed Friedman
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