Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate BPH / February 2006

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Former poster returning

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Darrell - 18 Feb 2006 03:49 GMT
I subscribed to this ng several years ago.  During the time I was a
subscriber, I had enlarged prostate, was treated with proscar for a couple
years and ended up having a TUMT in 2000.  So far everything is working
fine, I pee like a champ, I occasionally get up once during the night and
when I do it flows like a waterfall.  The problem I have is my PSA is fairly
erratic.  I was seeing the uro 3 times a year, PSA coming in at the 6 and 7
range.  Once it was up to 9.  I've been biopsied 3 times, each time
negative.  I was doing saw palmetto rather irregularly.  I would use up a
bottle or 2 and quit using for 6 months or so.  A couple years ago I started
religiously taking it, twice a day, 160mg each gel tab, one in the morning
and one at night.  My PSA went to 3 and stayed there as long as I was taking
SP.  I was only seeing the uro twice a year, PSA was staying in the 3's.
Several months ago, I ran out of it (SP) and being the lazy, put-it-off
person that I am, I didn't get a new bottle until about a month ago.  Wed
the 15th I saw the uro, had blood drawn, etc.  I got the results today and
PSA was back up to 6!  The uro said to come back in a month for another
blood draw for comparison.  I've been seeing the same uro all this time,
he's been voted one of the top uro's in Denver several times and he tells me
that clinical tests show that saw palmetto has nothing to do with prostate
health.  When I talked with him today about the results, I explained again
about my history with sp, how PSA goes up when I don't take and comes down
when I do take it and again he says that there is no benefit from sp.
So now I'm looking back over the last 3 years and thinking about what else I
was doing that might have lowered my PSA.    For the past 3 years I've been
smoking pot almost every day.  Please, no flames and no lectures about your
thoughts on marijuana.  I don't drink liquor, instead of having a cocktail
in the evening, I would spend a little time with my water pipe.  I quit
smoking it about 3 weeks ago.  My stash ran out and my connection seems to
have lost interest in it.  Has anybody else had experience with pot and PSA?
I'm sure the US Government hasn't done any studies on the topic, but maybe a
government who doesn't waste tons of money on the "War on Drugs" has done
studies.  Is anybody aware of such a study?
I apologize if this message is too long.  If you disagree with my use of
marijuana, please keep it to yourself.  Remember one thing, people die of
alcohol poisoning.  Nobody has ever died of cannabis poisoning.
Signature

Remove "nospam" to reply

Derek F - 18 Feb 2006 11:30 GMT
Always stop taking Saw Palmetto for about a week before a PSA test as it
markedly lowers it. Also avoid having sex during that week as that also
affects the PSA reading.
Derek.
>I subscribed to this ng several years ago.  During the time I was a
> subscriber, I had enlarged prostate, was treated with proscar for a couple
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> marijuana, please keep it to yourself.  Remember one thing, people die of
> alcohol poisoning.  Nobody has ever died of cannabis poisoning.
Ed - 18 Feb 2006 16:16 GMT
According to "Saw Palmetto and the Prostate" by Barton, page 120, "One
of the benefits of saw palmetto in regards to prostate cancer is that
saw palmetto does not appear to lower prostate specific (PSA) levels".

Then, "Unfortunately, there have been several incorrect statements
made in various publications and on the Internet that saw palmetto
extract lowers PSA. Despite this widely repeated rumor, there is not,
and never has been, any documentation from clinical trials of saw
palmetto that support this claim. In fact, evidence from several
studies shows that saw palmetto doesn't lower PSA."

If you disagree with the above, pls give sources of information.

Ed

>Always stop taking Saw Palmetto for about a week before a PSA test as it
>markedly lowers it. Also avoid having sex during that week as that also
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>> marijuana, please keep it to yourself.  Remember one thing, people die of
>> alcohol poisoning.  Nobody has ever died of cannabis poisoning.
Darrell - 18 Feb 2006 18:37 GMT
> According to "Saw Palmetto and the Prostate" by Barton, page 120, "One
> of the benefits of saw palmetto in regards to prostate cancer is that
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>I have no source of information that SP lowers PSA.  However, folklore, or
whatever, says it does.  And with my own personal experience over the past 6
years, I find the times I take it on a regular basis, my PSA is lower than
the times when I don't take it.  To my way of thinking that little
experiment with myself pretty much speaks for itself.  For 3 years I took it
every day, twice a day.  My PSA stayed in the 3's.  I went from seeing the
uro 3 times a year to seeing him twice a year.  When I stopped taking it, my
PSA went back up to 6, which is where it was before I started taking SP.
Actually, when I wasn't taking SP, my PSA was all over the place, between 6
and 9 (I think that was the highest).  My uro was concerned about the
numbers he was getting and 3 seperate times I had biopsies done.  No fun!
But they all came back negative.

Darrell
Chockman - 18 Feb 2006 19:59 GMT
Take a look at the following reference for another opinion...

http://www.priory.com/med/saw.htm

I remember reading in some Prostate book (connected with the Mayo
Clinic) that they advised not having sex or having any type of
manipulation of the prostate for 48 hrs prior to a PSA test.

>>According to "Saw Palmetto and the Prostate" by Barton, page 120, "One
>>of the benefits of saw palmetto in regards to prostate cancer is that
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Darrell
Ed - 19 Feb 2006 00:48 GMT
I took saw palmetto for a few years. My uro told me bluntly that saw
palmetto does not affect the PSA. And he was right, at least in my
case. It did not affect mine. (In fact, the PSA eventually went up and
symptoms worsened, so in my case SP failed to slow the growth of the
prostate.)

Who knows, it may be more complicated than we think. I would just
suggest that we need to be careful in presenting information as fact
when it might just be an opinion or personal experience or heresay.

For instance... twice at least I went into retention just after
stopping a course of ibuprofen. I told my uro, and he said,
"Coincidence." I'm not really in a strong position to say that he was
wrong just based on my personal experience and claim that ibuprofen
can resolve BPH. He has the training, so I think he was probably
right.

My personal view on saw palmetto is that it does not affect PSA and
also that it is ineffective for treating BPH.

See http://tinyurl.com/a8eal and http://tinyurl.com/9h8uv for info on
a recent study. Beware the placibo effect!

Apart from having no effect on PSA and no effect on BPH, it also has
no side effects! (except on your wallet.)

I agree that physical stimulation of the gland can increase PSA.

Ed

>Take a look at the following reference for another opinion...
>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>>
>> Darrell
Derek F - 19 Feb 2006 23:41 GMT
I am told that doctors in Germany prescribe saw palmetto for BPH.
Derek.
>I took saw palmetto for a few years. My uro told me bluntly that saw
> palmetto does not affect the PSA. And he was right, at least in my
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>>>
>>> Darrell
Paul Kelly - 20 Feb 2006 08:35 GMT
>I am told that doctors in Germany prescribe saw palmetto for BPH.
>Derek.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> symptoms worsened, so in my case SP failed to slow the growth of the
>> prostate.)

For all the Bandolier articles on BHP
 http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/booths/bph.html

for one on Saw Palmetto
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band73/b73-2.html

read first and then decide on this evidence if thinking Saw Palmetto.

Signature

PK
Remove the xtra y from my name in the email address if replying

docsafari@hotmail.com - 20 Feb 2006 15:47 GMT
Ibuprofen:  I am not surprised that stopping Ibuprofen led to urine
retention, since Ibuprofen does reduce swelling/inflammation and those
are core problems with prostate/BPH/urination issues.  (I had exactly
the same problem after brachytherapy when I had to stop Ibuprofen
altogether due to an intestinal hemorrhage -- one risk of Ibu.) Many
Uros prescribe anti-inflammatories such as Ibu routinely after prostate
procedures to aid urination, and there is a lot of data to support
this.. As to Saw Palmetto, one person's experience should not be used
as the gauge for others. Most of the careful studies find that it is
NOT effective overall.   If I found my PSA lower while taking SP I
would also ask myself was there anything else different in what I was
doing at the time that might also bear on PSA.  Also, how many measures
of your PSA are we talking about here?  If it is only a handful over
time I would not consider that very hard data.  but, if it seems to
work for you, go for it.

Thanks, and best of luck to all.

Richard

P.S.  Does anyone know of a site/group devoted to issues of severe
long-term urine retention (which i have had for 8 months) and
self-cathing?
Derek F - 18 Feb 2006 20:27 GMT
>> According to "Saw Palmetto and the Prostate" by Barton, page 120, "One
>> of the benefits of saw palmetto in regards to prostate cancer is that
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Darrell

I also varied between 6 and 9 and had three negative biopsies. Three months
after my PVP it was 5.1.
Derek.
Darrell - 18 Feb 2006 16:17 GMT
> Always stop taking Saw Palmetto for about a week before a PSA test as it
> markedly lowers it. Also avoid having sex during that week as that also
> affects the PSA reading.

I've been told to avoid sex for 48 hours before testing, but nothing about
stopping SP a week before.  Thanks for the input.

Darrell
Derek F - 18 Feb 2006 20:33 GMT
>> Always stop taking Saw Palmetto for about a week before a PSA test as it
>> markedly lowers it. Also avoid having sex during that week as that also
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Darrell

Also avoid passing hard stools as that is as bad as a DRE in terms of
irritating the prostate.
Derek.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.