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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate BPH / February 2006

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PVP video

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fgomsan@gmail.com - 05 Feb 2006 12:57 GMT
Dear All,

I have found a way to upload videos in my blog. I have already placed a
video of a PVP of a 44 gram prostate, you might want to have a look.

I am working on a video of a 100 gram prostate and also a video with
real time transrectal ultrasound control of a PVP procedure, I will
post them as soon as I can.

I hope this will help you understand what it is like from the surgeon's
point of view.

All the best,

Fernando Gómez Sancha
http://drgomezsancha.blogspot.com
Magna - 05 Feb 2006 15:40 GMT
Fernando, very interesting. A couple of questions for you!

I understood that fluid was passed in and out of the  bladder to flush
away material but there doesn't seem to be much fluid removing the
material as you go though the procedure in this video, does it all just
vapourise and not require flushing out?

If you do flush it out, do you fill and then empty the bladder or is
it a continuous process? If the former how often is this done?

What sort of pressures are in the bladder while this is going on and
can you control them?

and finally, when you press on the bladder at the end fluid comes out.
Why does the sphincter allow this? You show the sphincter closing in
the video so is it because  the anasthetic relaxes the sphincter enough
for you to push the fluid out?

Thankyou for your continued professional input into this group, it
removes much speculation and it is good to have an authoritative source
of information for those of us who are considering pvp. Perhaps you
could persuade some of your other European colleagues who do PVP to add
their comments and experiences?

Thankyou again, magna
Pete - 05 Feb 2006 20:22 GMT
> Thankyou for your continued professional input into this group, it
> removes much speculation and it is good to have an authoritative
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Thankyou again, magna

Ditto...I have thanked Dr. Sancha continually throughout is postings.  Glad
to see you're still with us Dr. Sancha.  I'm still thinking about sending my
post for you on my kidney questions, but it may be rather lengthy, and I
wasn't sure I wanted to inconvenience you, even though you said it was okay
to write it.  I will try to keep it to a page or two if I write it :-)
...Pete
fgomsan@gmail.com - 05 Feb 2006 20:49 GMT
Pete, go ahead with the kidney questions. If they are too difficult we
will have to ask a nephrologist!!!

Fernando
Pete - 05 Feb 2006 22:41 GMT
> Pete, go ahead with the kidney questions. If they are too difficult we
> will have to ask a nephrologist!!!
>
> Fernando

Dr. Sancha...no nephrologist will be needed :-) .  I want opinions from
someone with a personality, and a kind, caring manner, like you.  You are
very capable of addressing my concerns and questions, I'm sure :-) ...Pete
fgomsan@gmail.com - 05 Feb 2006 20:48 GMT
Magna,

Thanks for your comments. The english version of the blog is
http://drgomezsancha2.blogspot.com, sorry.

I use a continuous flow cystoscope, water is coming in an out all the
time. I use normal saline that is contained in 5 liter bags. The
bladder pressure depends on the height of the bags during the
procedure, so it should usually be 60 cms of water.

In very big prostates that require lengthy operations I sometimes use a
suprapubic trocar, a metallic tube that drains the saline, to improve
irrigation. This trocar penetrates the skin above the pubic bone and
gets into the bladder. Also, if there is bleeding that obscures my
vision (sometimes there is some bleeding, nothing you would notice in a
blood test, but enough to obscure the vision and make the procedure
more difficult), the trocar helps to irrigate more vigorously and also,
the irrigant pushes away blood from the scope, allowing me to see and
then coagulate the bleeder. I use a 23 F scope, which is relatively
thin, good for the urethra, but irrigation is relatively precarious.
The trocar leaves a 3 mm wound in the skin. It does not need stitching.
Does not seem to bother my patients. Take into account that I only use
it in prostates bigger than 100 grams.

The bladder pressure test usually works after surgery, the sphincter is
relaxed by the spinal anaesthetic. I am not aware of any study that
correlates the result of this test with the postoperative result, but
it makes me happy to see the big flow. If you do it preoperatively,
there is usually no urine coming out.

I do not know if other colleagues from Europe will join. I have created
a group for doctors only, to discuss technical aspects of PVP and I
guess as soon as they start to join it, they will become aware of this
group and probably contribute.

All the best,

Fernando Gómez Sancha
http://drgomezsancha2.blogspot.com
DP - 05 Feb 2006 19:51 GMT
Dr. Sancha
     Is there anyway that you can get your blog  and video in English?
Dear All,

I have found a way to upload videos in my blog. I have already placed a
video of a PVP of a 44 gram prostate, you might want to have a look.

I am working on a video of a 100 gram prostate and also a video with
real time transrectal ultrasound control of a PVP procedure, I will
post them as soon as I can.

I hope this will help you understand what it is like from the surgeon's
point of view.

All the best,

Fernando Gómez Sancha
http://drgomezsancha.blogspot.com
Derek F - 05 Feb 2006 20:45 GMT
I was also about to sk the same question, originally the Blog was in English
and Spanish
Derek.
> Dr. Sancha
>      Is there anyway that you can get your blog  and video in English?
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Fernando Gómez Sancha
> http://drgomezsancha.blogspot.com
Pete - 07 Feb 2006 22:10 GMT
Hi everyone...I have a computer question about Dr. Sancha's video, which I
would love to watch, but unfortunately I can't due to the snail dialup I
have.  Is there any way I can download the video to my hard drive and then
watch it, instead of just clicking it on at his website and then have it
just stall due to my dialup.  Thanks...Pete

> Dear All,
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Fernando Gómez Sancha
> http://drgomezsancha.blogspot.com 
Derek F - 07 Feb 2006 22:51 GMT
Why not contact Laserscope who have an information pack and CD that they
will send you. Their disk has two procedures on it one for a prostate of
around 40gm and the other about 100gm.
Derek.
> Hi everyone...I have a computer question about Dr. Sancha's video, which I
> would love to watch, but unfortunately I can't due to the snail dialup I
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>> Fernando Gómez Sancha
>> http://drgomezsancha.blogspot.com
Pete - 07 Feb 2006 23:10 GMT
Thanks Derek...will do.  Does that mean there is no way I can download Dr.
Sancha's video, unless he had it set up for that priviledge.  In other words
you can only go to his site and play it, and it's gone after you close the
site, which is a bummer unless you have cable...Pete

> Why not contact Laserscope who have an information pack and CD that
> they will send you. Their disk has two procedures on it one for a
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>> Fernando Gómez Sancha
>>> http://drgomezsancha.blogspot.com 
Derek F - 08 Feb 2006 09:55 GMT
You would need a fast connection.
Derek.
> Thanks Derek...will do.  Does that mean there is no way I can download Dr.
> Sancha's video, unless he had it set up for that priviledge.  In other
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>>>> Fernando Gómez Sancha
>>>> http://drgomezsancha.blogspot.com
Lee - 08 Feb 2006 18:13 GMT
> Hi everyone...I have a computer question about Dr. Sancha's video, which I
> would love to watch, but unfortunately I can't due to the snail dialup I
> have.  Is there any way I can download the video to my hard drive and then
> watch it, instead of just clicking it on at his website and then have it
> just stall due to my dialup.  Thanks...Pete

Pete,

I believe there is a way to view the video over a slow (dialup) connection.
I just did it.  You will have to wait while it downloads to your computer (8
meg, approx. 30 minutes @ 50K baud) and then you can replay it locally on
your machine while offline.

This is what I did:  Assuming you are using Internet Explorer 6.x, go to
Tools->InternetOptions->TemporaryInternetFiles->Settings.  Make sure you
have a lot of space allocated for your Temporary Internet Files folder.  I
have 100 meg. allocated.  Then, start Dr. Sancha's video.  It will start
downloading to your machine and playing itself in fragmented, slow
connection, mode.

When it has completely downloaded, hang up your telephone line and tell IE
to go offline (File->WorkOffline).  Then, re-visit Dr. Sancha's page and
play the video again.  It will replay at full speed off your hard disk.

I hope this helps you and anyone else with a slow connection.

--
Regards,
Lee
Pete - 08 Feb 2006 21:03 GMT
>> Hi everyone...I have a computer question about Dr. Sancha's video,
>> which I would love to watch, but unfortunately I can't due to the
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> I hope this helps you and anyone else with a slow connection.

Thanks Lee...I saw this in another group also.  Will the file in the TIF be
a .mpeg file and will I just be able to double click it to get it to run, or
do I have to do something with WMP...Pete
Pete - 09 Feb 2006 00:49 GMT
>>> Hi everyone...I have a computer question about Dr. Sancha's video,
>>> which I would love to watch, but unfortunately I can't due to the
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> TIF be a .mpeg file and will I just be able to double click it to get
> it to run, or do I have to do something with WMP...Pete

Lee...you confused me a little in your wording but I got it working.  I
thought the file in the TIF would have a .mpeg extension on it and you could
just double click it on to run it.  It did not have an extension and the
only way to run it was to run it again on Dr. Sancha's site (which I would
have to do each time) and it then went to TIF and it was already there.
What confused me was when you said to work off line - that made no sense to
me.  I don't download video or audio stuff, but I have a short medical
procedure from years back with a file name with a .mpeg extension, and you
can just click it on (has nothing to do with being on line).  I guess that
is a completely different situation...Pete
Pete - 10 Feb 2006 18:41 GMT
> Dear All,
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Fernando Gómez Sancha
> http://drgomezsancha.blogspot.com

Dr. Sancha...I have a few rudimentary questions about your video (please
forgive my ignorance), since I have never looked up someone's urethra with
an endoscope :-) .  BTW, if you keep traveling all over the world, you won't
have an office left in Madrid with any patients to see :-).  You seem to be
coming terribly busy (I don't see how you do it), so thank you so much again
for taking the time to visit our group and providing all the invaluable
information.

Here are my questions about the video.  I found a way to view it in dial up,
but it doesn't last long since the temp int file won't work more than a day
or so (don't know how your site works).  Not to worry, my problem.  So my
questions are based on watching it a couple days ago.  I know you don't
answer in line, but it may be easier if you did.

-  What is the structure right at the very beginning of the video where you
are inserting the scope (it almost looks like a penis for lack of a better
word) and you can only see it for a split second.  And then there is some
kind of moundy orifice looking thing that jumped into view so to speak (kind
of like the transverse rings in the colon for a comparison - that's all I
could think of) - is that the external sphincter or what.  And then you are
above the veru montanum I guess, and looking at the bladder neck and the
arcing starts.

- I am confused by the probe (which looks like a rod) with a "glass looking
thing" at the end that the arcs are coming from, and how it is tied in with
the scope (can we call it a resectoscope, or what is the word you use).
Where is the camera in relation to the rod that is producing the arcs.  Is
the fiber inside the rod.  The camera must be behind the rod some how
because you are taking a picture of it - very confusing to me.  A picture of
the scope with the rod and fibers would be worth a thousand words.

- At the end of the video you are withdrawing the scope and point out that
the external sphincter is closing nicely.  So how come, when you said that
you pressed on the bladder, the urine flowed out of the penis (you showed a
camera shot of urine flowing out of the penis).  How did the urine come out
if the external sphincter was closed.

- I went to the Laserscope site and could not find any pictures of the
endoscope or resectoscope and how (what I am calling a rod) and the fibers
tie in.  Can you provide a web site that will show the whole endoscope with
the rod/fiber etc.  I don't mean the console which it is tied into.  I am
interested in the scope with the rod/fiber.  Also when you do these
procedures are you ever looking through an eyepiece, or is that passe stuff
(before the video tapes etc) and you are always looking at a video monitor.

If you have the time, I would appreciate your response.  Thanks...Pete
Derek F - 10 Feb 2006 20:53 GMT
>> Dear All,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
>
> If you have the time, I would appreciate your response.  Thanks...Pete

Pete, were you so enquiring when you were at school ???
Derek.
Pete - 10 Feb 2006 21:02 GMT
> Pete, were you so enquiring when you were at school ???
> Derek.

No...I started to pick it up after the doctors started screwing me up around
1992 and I started to study stuff.  I hope you weren't saying that
sarcastically Derek :-) ...Pete
Pete - 10 Feb 2006 21:04 GMT
>> Dear All,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> are always looking at a video monitor.
> If you have the time, I would appreciate your response.  Thanks...Pete

Sorry Dr. Sancha...I overlooked that you already addressed the "shincter
allowing the urine" question.  You can strike that one :-) ...Pete
Rich256 - 10 Feb 2006 23:08 GMT
> - I went to the Laserscope site and could not find any pictures of the
> endoscope or resectoscope and how (what I am calling a rod) and the fibers
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> procedures are you ever looking through an eyepiece, or is that passe stuff
> (before the video tapes etc) and you are always looking at a video monitor.

Pete,

I think these might be the device:

http://www.olympus-europe.com/medical/427_Laser_Treatments.htm

http://bjo.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/84/1/16

Do a search for

laserscope greenlight "side fire"
Pete - 11 Feb 2006 00:38 GMT
>> - I went to the Laserscope site and could not find any pictures of
>> the endoscope or resectoscope and how (what I am calling a rod) and
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> laserscope greenlight "side fire"

Thanks Rich...I checked both sites plus some more sites in the search you
suggested, and I still can't get an appreciation for the camera shot at the
biginning of Dr. Sancha's video that shows this rod looking thing with a
glass bulb that is arcing at the end, and the camera is obviously somewhere
in front of all this because it is taking a picture of it.  It's not obvious
to me to say the least.  I guess I would have to see one.

I wonder if all you guys who had PVP's ever saw the aparatus (I'm sure it
was on a stand right near by), or did they just walk you in and they put you
to sleep like is the norm (and it's none of your business what the surgeon
is about to do).  I've seen various scopes on various sites before
(bronchoscopes, EGD scopes, and cytoscopes or resectoscopes), and may have
seen them briefly laying on a stand before going under, but I never could
figure out exactly what was going on,  and now that I see Dr. Sanchas video
I am even more confused :-)...Pete
Rich256 - 11 Feb 2006 15:58 GMT
>>> - I went to the Laserscope site and could not find any pictures of
>>> the endoscope or resectoscope and how (what I am calling a rod) and
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> in front of all this because it is taking a picture of it.  It's not obvious
> to me to say the least.  I guess I would have to see one.

It sure would be informative if we could see an illustration like is
available for TURP:

http://hon.nucleusinc.com/generateexhibit.php?ID=2567

I would say that the "glass bulb"  is the fiber optics device that
produces the "side firing" effect.  It must be very tiny.  I have seen
reference to less than 0.1 inches in diameter.

  The camera of course is outside the probe.  There must be another
fiber optic device within the probe, for carrying the video information
to the camera.
Rich256 - 11 Feb 2006 17:33 GMT
>>>> - I went to the Laserscope site and could not find any pictures of
>>>> the endoscope or resectoscope and how (what I am calling a rod) and
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> fiber optic device within the probe, for carrying the video information
> to the camera.

Here is a site that gives you an idea of what the device looks like.  It
is a Holmium but similar I would think:

http://www.clearlighthvp.com/hvpimage/HVP%20webinar.pdf
Pete - 12 Feb 2006 03:02 GMT
>>>> - I went to the Laserscope site and could not find any pictures of
>>>> the endoscope or resectoscope and how (what I am calling a rod) and
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> http://hon.nucleusinc.com/generateexhibit.php?ID=2567

Thanks Rich...I already had this in my bookmarks.  Thanks for the site in
your post right after this also.  Dr. Sancha hasn't answered me yet on this.
I hope he's not upset.  He's the nicest doctor I have ever been associated
with (even if it's via a ng).  I'm sure he would be a great physician for
anyone...Pete

> I would say that the "glass bulb"  is the fiber optics device that
> produces the "side firing" effect.  It must be very tiny.  I have seen
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> fiber optic device within the probe, for carrying the video
> information to the camera.
Rich256 - 12 Feb 2006 15:36 GMT
>>>>> - I went to the Laserscope site and could not find any pictures of
>>>>> the endoscope or resectoscope and how (what I am calling a rod) and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>>>> etc) and you are always looking at a video monitor.
>>>> Pete,

Looks like he is very busy and doing a lot of traveling.

I was just thinking of how much medical care has changed in my life.  It
has been just a few years, with the advent of fiber optics, that many of
these procedures became possible.

When I was a student at U. of MN I had a part time job working for a
French Doctor in the Physiology department.  He was doing heart/lung
experiments on dogs.  Open heart surgery was still experimental.  There
had been discussions about using electric shock to revive a heart.
During one of the tests when the dogs heart stopped the doctor grabbed a
desk lamp and ripped the cord loose.  He plugged it in and stroked the
heart with the bare wires.  I remember him saying "It works!  It works!".
Pete - 12 Feb 2006 03:33 GMT
Dr. Sancha...my questions were for the 44 gram video.  Sorry...Pete

>> Dear All,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> are always looking at a video monitor.
> If you have the time, I would appreciate your response.  Thanks...Pete
fgomsan@gmail.com - 15 Feb 2006 19:31 GMT
Pete,

I have included a photo of the cystoscope in my blog.

All the best,

Fernando Gómez Sancha
http://drgomezsancha2.blogspot.com
 
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