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john.sweeny@citigroup.com - 05 Jan 2007 14:15 GMT

Greetings. I'm considering a job change to pharmacy. This would
require about 7 years of schooling to get the degree, so obviously I'm
a bit cautious. I would be interested to hear your thoughts to the
following questions:

1) What do you like best about pharmacy?

2) What are some of the frustrating aspects of working as a
pharmacist?

3) After graduating from school and actively working as a pharmacist,
what was one of the most unexpected parts of the job (e.g. you didn't
expect such long hours, you didn't appreciate the amount of customer
interaction, nobody really explained how hard it would be to get a job,
there are aspects of having to work for a national chain that nobody
prepared you for, etc).

4) How accurate is the "average" pay scale of a new pharmacist of $75k
to $85k?

5) What type of career advancement is there in pharmacy? Do you
become a pharmacist and you're done? Or, is there another step?

Thank you.

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Eli C. Yoder, R.Ph. - 07 Jan 2007 18:47 GMT

> Greetings. I'm considering a job change to pharmacy. This would
> require about 7 years of schooling to get the degree, so obviously I'm
> a bit cautious. I would be interested to hear your thoughts to the
> following questions:
>
> 1) What do you like best about pharmacy?

The people I work with, and the patients I've served for better than 25
years.

> 2) What are some of the frustrating aspects of working as a
> pharmacist?

The high stress environment due to the ever increasing workload.
Fighting with insurance companies. Increased, redundant regs. I could go on.

I'm in retail, and most pharmacists who leave retail wouldn't consider
returning. Even though the work stinks, working with the right people
can make it worthwhile.

> 3) After graduating from school and actively working as a pharmacist,
> what was one of the most unexpected parts of the job (e.g. you didn't
> expect such long hours, you didn't appreciate the amount of customer
> interaction, nobody really explained how hard it would be to get a job,
> there are aspects of having to work for a national chain that nobody
> prepared you for, etc).

That was 25 years ago. My first job was with a chain. Pharmacy was great
back then. I even had time to stock the OTC meds. It's hard to imagine
having time to even catch your breath these days

> 4) How accurate is the "average" pay scale of a new pharmacist of $75k
> to $85k?

That's about what I earn. I hear some start out higher, but you need to
consider the cost of living in the area where you plan to work.

> 5) What type of career advancement is there in pharmacy? Do you
> become a pharmacist and you're done? Or, is there another step?

Many, if not most, of the new grads plan on landing a job in the public
heath care system. Others are considering a job in industry. As far as
advancement in retail, you're pretty well stuck.

Before you can practice, the grad needs to apply to the state board of
his/her choice. Usually the applicant needs to successfully pass the
NAPLEX and the MPJE before he or she can practice.

Right now the demand for pharmacists seems to be easing from its peak of
a few years ago. Full-time jobs are few and far between in my area. A
young pharmacist recently moved into my area and finally landed a job
with a chain, but it took her a few months to get hired. We have an
abundance of semi-retired floaters who are available, so that probably
limits the prospects here. Most opportunities may be in the urban areas.

As a side note: If I planned to spend 7 years in college, I would want
to walk away with more than a Pharm D. There are a couple of 6 year
dual-degree programs where you earn both a degree in pharmacy and a law
degree. Not a bad combo in today's environment.

Maybe some others will weigh on this for your sake. Don't form an
opinion on one person's views.

Eli

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John Smith ® - 08 Jan 2007 15:25 GMT

You get to work inside.

> 2) What are some of the frustrating aspects of working as a pharmacist?

As long as you just give you customer their drugs and free advise, and
listen to the endless complaints about how you are ripping them off on the
cost, you will do fine. Just keep in mind that you are somewhere between
personal slave and McDonalds worker - unless they want free advise.

You won't have any trouble getting a job because there are so few people
going into pharmacy, and so many quitting. You will work bad hours and be
lucky if you get to eat or go to the bathroom. Your "customers" will treat
you like dirt, and expect you to smile and say "Thank You". Oh yes, forget
about being able to actually leave your job for an emergency, or if you get
sick because there is no one to take your place. Be sure to take the course
(while in school) on how to run the cash register and do price checks - you
will get to do a lot of that while working alone.

> 4) How accurate is the "average" pay scale of a new pharmacist of $75k
> to $85k?

You can easily make better than that.

> 5) What type of career advancement is there in pharmacy? Do you
> become a pharmacist and you're done? Or, is there another step?

You can become a supervisor or district manager, or might move into
corporate. If you have your own store you can forget any advancement. You
can teach or continue your education and work in industry or research.

> Thank you.

As one of my old professors used to say, "Why don't you be a plumber, you
will make more money and won't have all the headaches!"

Signature

There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
--Mark Twain>

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Pumbaa - 09 Jan 2007 15:23 GMT

Hi John. Its nice to meet another Pharmacist that will confess to thinking
like I do!
****************************************************************************
**

> > 1) What do you like best about pharmacy?
>
> You get to work inside.

*** I always said that also. It is especially important if you live where
the weather is very hot or very cold. There is nothing like an air
conditioned job in Ole Mississippi when it is one hundred degrees in the
shade with the humidity to match.

> > 2) What are some of the frustrating aspects of working as a pharmacist?
>
> As long as you just give you customer their drugs and free advise, and
> listen to the endless complaints about how you are ripping them off on the
> cost, you will do fine. Just keep in mind that you are somewhere between
> personal slave and McDonalds worker - unless they want free advise.

*** Pharmacists have done a very poor job in educating the public that the
high cost of brand-name manufactured Rx drugs are due to the wholesale cost
of the product. People are finding out how much certain drugs cost when they
fall into the so-called Medicare Donut hole and then have to pay the entire
costs themselves. I have been the subject of complaints for things like: not
working fast enought (I was actually double checking my work). For filling
Rxs first for newly sick kids ahead of refill Rxs for existing drugs.
Taking a sick day off and letting the work fall behind (the clinic's owner
did not have a backup Pharmacist, so the clinic pharmacy closed), so forth.
People have not been educated how important it is to be able to just select
the correct drug and dose from the thousands of drugs that have similar
sounding names. Most Rxs are still not typed or printed out but are hand
written. It's very strange (or very cheap) to occur in this age where
computers are affordable.

*** Patient counsling is a real joke. You have no private area to counsel
patients and no time to do it anyway. Stuffing printing drug information
sheets into the Rx bag usually is about all there is to it.

> > 3) After graduating from school and actively working as a pharmacist,
> > what was one of the most unexpected parts of the job (e.g. you didn't
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> (while in school) on how to run the cash register and do price checks - you
> will get to do a lot of that while working alone.

*** That is why I spent 18+ years of my career working for a large hospital
pharmacy. I didn't want to put up with the hours at a retail pharmacy. I
worked 40 hours a week and got paid time and a half when working overtime.
Yes, I actually got paid overtime which is very rare to happen in a retail
pharmacy. The retail company usually arranges your work days so you never
work overtime by "creative time scheduling".

> > 4) How accurate is the "average" pay scale of a new pharmacist of $75k
> > to $85k?
>
> You can easily make better than that.

*** I suppose thanks to Walgreens, Wall*Mart, Dollar store pharmacies, etc.,
and people only working part-time there is a shortage of Pharmacists. Of
course physical therapists, nurses, and others also are in short supply and
can demand and get high pay.

> > 5) What type of career advancement is there in pharmacy? Do you
> > become a pharmacist and you're done? Or, is there another step?
>
> You can become a supervisor or district manager, or might move into
> corporate. If you have your own store you can forget any advancement. You
> can teach or continue your education and work in industry or research.

*** One of the local pharmacies where I live sells and repairs firearms,
jewerly, and installs stereos into automobiles. They also tint auto
windows. If you own your own store you may find you can make more money
selling jewerly or Pizza than you can filling Rxs with the insurance
companies telling you how much (or how little) they will pay for a Rx.

> > Thank you.
>
> As one of my old professors used to say, "Why don't you be a plumber, you
> will make more money and won't have all the headaches!"

*** My father, who was also a Pharmacist said (He probably got this from one
of his old professors) "That Pharmacists are the only group of people that
will go to college for five years and then get out and fight to see who can
sell Maalox the cheapest!". Before drugs like Tagamet we used to sell the
heck out of Maalox and Mylanta.

Reply to this Message

John Smith ® - 09 Jan 2007 16:12 GMT

> Hi John. Its nice to meet another Pharmacist that will confess to
> thinking
> like I do!
> ***************************************************************************

Howdy,

I am sure that anyone that has ben in practice for more that 2 years feels
about the same. Most just won't admit it.

>> > 1) What do you like best about pharmacy?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> conditioned job in Ole Mississippi when it is one hundred degrees in the
> shade with the humidity to match.

This has been a joke for a long time. Where I work now, though, they have
discovered that the air conditioning works best when the temperature outside
is under 50 and the heat works best when the outside temp is above 70. It
saves them lots of $ to use the air in winter and the heat in summer - makes
sense to them.

>> > 2) What are some of the frustrating aspects of working as a
>> > pharmacist?
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> written. It's very strange (or very cheap) to occur in this age where
> computers are affordable.

Yep, we are our own worst enemies - I will agree to that. If people only
knew how many screw ups we see on drug orders each day, they would be
shocked. You can save the Doctor's (PA, NP, etc.) hide a thousand times,
but don't expect him/her to ever back you up! Secure electronic prescribing
should be required, but don't look for it happening any time soon - know
why? If that happened, then all those screw ups would be retained in a
database somewhere and the prescribers know that.

Interestingly enough, physicians did a study years ago showing that if you
wanted the public to see you a Professional or at least more professional,
you should never take money directly from anyone. How many times have you
been in a Dr.s office and had him take your payment or make change? What
is the first thing that they want you to learn in a chain "pharmacy" these
days? You better know how to run that register and check the sale price on
those pantyhose or you are in big trouble. Yet when they show ads on TV,
they try to project the image of the Pharmacist as a "professional" - talk
about hypocrits.

> *** Patient counsling is a real joke. You have no private area to counsel
> patients and no time to do it anyway. Stuffing printing drug information
> sheets into the Rx bag usually is about all there is to it.

What, you mean standing in the middle of the store with 20 other people
standing around listening, telling the woman how to use the Flagyl and
Monistat isn't good counciling practice?

>> > 3) After graduating from school and actively working as a pharmacist,
>> > what was one of the most unexpected parts of the job (e.g. you didn't
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> pharmacy. The retail company usually arranges your work days so you never
> work overtime by "creative time scheduling".

Hehe, yep. But WallyWorld learned the hard way ($800 million lost in the
first round) about that "creative scheduling" and use of "exempt employee
status". They will keep it in court for years, but will still end up paying
something. Did you know that you actually get to take a lunch break at most
stores because of that?

>> > 4) How accurate is the "average" pay scale of a new pharmacist of $75k
>> > to $85k?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> and
> can demand and get high pay.

Yes, it has helped some, but the manager of medium sized Sonic Drive In can
make $90K a year and you don't have to put in 6 years of college to do that.

>> > 5) What type of career advancement is there in pharmacy? Do you
>> > become a pharmacist and you're done? Or, is there another step?
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> selling jewerly or Pizza than you can filling Rxs with the insurance
> companies telling you how much (or how little) they will pay for a Rx.

The few independents left usually have some side line where they make money.
Medicine Shoppes seem to do pretty good without the extras though.

>> > Thank you.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> sell Maalox the cheapest!". Before drugs like Tagamet we used to sell the
> heck out of Maalox and Mylanta.

Oh yes, push those OTC's - such as they are, but heaven forbid that you sell
them 1mg of pseudoephedrine without doing 5 pages of paper work.

Nice to hear from someone on here BTW.

Signature

There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
--Mark Twain

Reply to this Message

Bob G. - 20 Jan 2007 15:54 GMT

Kind of late to jump in on this thread....
But I'm going to anyway....!

I'm 63, and I retired the day I turned 55 ...did one evening of
"relief" work a week until January 1st of this year when my licience
was up for renewal and I did not feel like I really wanted to "work"
anymore...

>>> > 1) What do you like best about pharmacy?

Actually I really enjoyed working with the "staff" ..and I also
enjoyed meeting and getting to know, and talking to "my" customers...

>>> > 2) What are some of the frustrating aspects of working as a
>>> > pharmacist?

Working all the holidays, weekends and for the last 15 or so years
dealing with Insurance Companies.. When I got out of school a 48 hour
workweek was the normal workweek.. to get a day off most of us pulled
a full day opening to closing at least once a week so the other
Pharmacist could have a day off... Thus I misssed a lot of my
childrenns baseball games etc...

>>> > 3) After graduating from school and actively working as a pharmacist,
>>> > what was one of the most unexpected parts of the job (e.g. you didn't
>>> > expect such long hours, you didn't appreciate the amount of customer
>>> > interaction, nobody really explained how hard it would be to get a job,
>>> > there are aspects of having to work for a national chain that nobody
>>> > prepared you for, etc).

The longest I ever was without a job was about 16 hours...Honest !
I Never really ran into any unexpected problems .. I expected the work
schedule, I looked forward to interacting with "my" customers although
95 percent of the interactions had absolutely nothing to do with
Phamacy.. more personal converstaions about the Family, hobbies,
politics, etc...

My 1st job was in a Hospital and I lasted 2 years ...Pharmacy was
located in the basement..the pills never talked to me.. never saw many
people, The only thing that I enjoyed in the Hospital were the work
hours, and the Nurses and Physicians ...Patients were numbers

Lucky for me I was drafted and spent a few years in the
Military...Vietman then a tour at Walter Reed ..attached to Research
unit (US Army Institute of infectious deseases) and to this day still
think Military Medical treatment and care is top notch. Then went
retail chain as a Staff Pharmacist ...again I may have been lucky
because This chain was a food/drug combo and Pharmacists were
respected and treated as such... Very good benifits, very good pay
and absolutely no interference from corporate..

>>> > 4) How accurate is the "average" pay scale of a new pharmacist of $75k
>>> > to $85k?

More like $100,000 a year locally... Unfortunately after 10-20 or even
30 years the pay is still $100,000 a year... Staff Pharmacists do NOT
get paid .....the chains "pay" you for your licience to "sell" "drugs"

>>> > 5) What type of career advancement is there in pharmacy? Do you
>>> > become a pharmacist and you're done? Or, is there another step?

Depends on what field of Pharmacy you are practicing in ... Since I
was in retail most of my career the staff to assistant manager to
manager to district manager to corporate was the only path... I made
it to district manager for a few years before stepping down to get
back into a store to get back in touch with real customers, have a
shorter work week (do not laugh keeping 14 stores running and manned
took more of my time then running a single store ever did...Plus
attending endless meetings was driving me to drink (seriously)

I never really liked filling Rx's ...Boring.. much prefered the front
end and customer interactions ... so My assistant ran the Rx counter
which I worked but only a few hours a day and or only when I was
needed ...

I enjoyed my career... I enjoyed my life... and I made good money....
in short Pharmacy was good to me... I'm now retired, have a 6 fingure
income, plenty of hobbies to keep me from ever being a couch potatao
etc...

HOWEVER ... I never got much satisfaction standing behind a counter
and filling Rx after Rx... and dealing with insurance problems got to
the very distastful.....

Just my opinions..
Bob G.

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