Medical Forum / General / Pharmacy / January 2007
Question Concerning Prescription and Pharmacist
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Jenn - 03 Jan 2007 18:17 GMT Hi all, I am a frequent pain patient that has been using a retail pharmacy for some time now. I had to go to the ER on Monday due to severe back pain and was given 20 Vicodin ES's. The prescription itself said to take 1 every 4 hours, or 2 every 6 hours. When I ended up getting it, for some reason the pharmacist put on there 'not to exceed 5 tablets per day', so that makes it a 4 day supply. Anyway, I don't like taking Vicodin (I've only taken 5 so far since Monday) because it makes me very nauseated. So my family doctor refilled my Darvocet, which was supposed to be picked up yesterday. In the past, I have had NO problems having Darvocet and Vicodin filled at the same time. The pharmacist refused to give it to me she said because of the Tylenol risk, I tried to explain to her that I wasn't taking the Vicodin, and even offered her the bottle of Vicodin to prove I had only taken 5, she still refused. She said she was going to call my doctor and make him aware to see if I could have it. I tried to have the prescription transferred to another pharmacy and that was a disaster. The woman ended up telling the other pharmacist of my history, which has NOTHING to do with the situation at hand. I called the pharmacy this morning and spoke to another person who was made aware by that woman to talk to my doctor. Thankfully it wasn't done yet and I asked her if I could just pick it up in a couple of days and she said that would be fine. I SHOULD be able to pick it up tomorrow since that is day 3. I talked to the Texas Board of Pharmacy who agreed that I should be able to pick it up tomorrow, and to talk to the Pharmacy Mgr if she still refused, and then file a complaint with them if it couldn't be resolved. Does anyone have any other tips? Has this happened to anyone else?
Thanks!! Jenn
Jenn - 04 Jan 2007 13:09 GMT > Hi all, > I am a frequent pain patient that has been using a retail pharmacy for [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Thanks!! > Jenn Hi all, Just wanted to let everyone know that I was able to pick up my medication this morning.
Jenn
John Smith ® - 08 Jan 2007 15:03 GMT >> Hi all, >> I am a frequent pain patient that has been using a retail pharmacy for [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Jenn If you want the short answer, it is because of all the lawyers running around, and all the patients that think they can get rich by saying they were damaged by drug X. Be glad you don't live in one of the States that sends all controlled drug info to the DEA (although that is comming soon everywhere). If you take lots of pain meds in one of those states, you and your Dr. might be getting a call from the Feds.
 Signature There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. --Mark Twain
Pumbaa - 04 Jan 2007 19:59 GMT FDA urges new warnings for pain relievers Combinations of over-the-counter drugs can cause serious side effects The Associated Press Updated: 5:43 p.m. CT Dec 19, 2006 WASHINGTON - Federal health officials cautioned Tuesday the tens of millions of Americans who take popular over-the-counter pain pills of their potentially serious side effects and released planned label changes intended to warn of the sometimes deadly risks.
Aspirin, ibuprofen, acetaminophen and the other related over-the-counter drugs remain safe and effective when used as directed, the Food and Drug Administration said.
However, overdoses of acetaminophen can cause serious liver damage, even death, the FDA said. For aspirin, ibuprofen and other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, there is a risk of gastrointestinal bleeding and kidney injury even when patients take the correct dose. Those risks too are linked to deaths, in this case thousands each year. The FDA cautioned the risk is rare when compared to the number of patients who take the drugs.
Experts called the stepped-up warnings long overdue, since federal advisers had called for similar label changes in 2002. An FDA official chalked it up to the time required to write new regulations.
"Unfortunately, that is a very long process. That is one of the disadvantages of the rule-making process," said Dr. Charles Ganley, director of the FDA office that oversees nonprescription products.
Unwitting overdoses The drugs are found in hundreds of medicines sold to treat pain, headache and fever. Health officials worry that the wide availability of those combination products can lead to patients unintentionally overdosing. Doctors report cases of patients taking two or more medicines - say, one for pain and another for flu symptoms - without knowing they both contain acetaminophen.
The FDA has updated the labels on the drugs multiple times in the past to warn patients of their risks. In 2002, FDA advisers recommended even further changes. In 2004, some of the warnings contained in the new proposal were included in pharmacy brochures and public service ads - a move that some critics said at the time didn't go far enough.
The latest proposed changes largely would beef up and highlight those warnings on the labels of the drugs. They also would require the more prominent disclosure, using fluorescent or bold-faced type, the presence of the drugs among a medication's ingredients.
"It's a step that's overdue and really reflects the consensus that came out of the meeting four years ago, which is helping the consumer know what they are taking," said Dr. Paul Watkins, a professor of medicine at The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a member of the 2002 advisory panel.
For acetaminophen, the labels also would warn of the risk of severe liver damage if patients take more than the recommended dose or consume three or more alcoholic drinks a day while on the drugs. The labels also would warn patients not to take multiple medicines that contain acetaminophen. In any given week, an estimated 48 million Americans take an acetaminophen product.
"People swallow these things like candy and they don't pay attention to the number of pills they're taking - even when you question them about it," said Dr. James Boyer, chairman of the board of the American Liver Foundation and a Yale University professor of medicine.
Most popular painkillers For aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen and other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, or NSAIDs, their labels would have to contain additional warnings of the risk of stomach bleeding. The labels would note the risk is higher in patients older than 59, or in those who have stomach ulcers, take blood-thinning drugs or steroids, use other drugs that contain an NSAID or remain on the medications for an extended period. An estimated 17 million Americans take an NSAID daily.
"Over-the-counter medicines are real medicines with real risks if misused. As with all medicines, there can be risks associated with not following label directions," said Elizabeth Assey, a spokeswoman for the Consumer Healthcare Products Association, which represents nonprescription drug manufacturers.
Acetaminophen is sold under the brand name Tylenol and in multiple generic versions. Acetaminophen sends an estimated 56,000 people to the emergency room each year, the FDA said. About 100 people die each year after unintentionally overdosing on the drug.
Ibuprofen is sold under the brand names Advil and Motrin and in generic form as well. Naproxen is best known as Aleve, but is also sold generically. The NSAIDs are blamed for sending more than 200,000 Americans to the hospital every year, and are linked to an estimated 16,000 deaths, the FDA said. The agency said it would address the cardiovascular risks of nonprescription NSAIDs in the future.
While all the affected drugs are available without a prescription, they also are used in multiple combination products sold only with a doctor's note. Those include narcotics, which can be addictive.
Experts have proposed "unbundling" acetaminophen from those products, said Dr. William Lee, of the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center. They've also suggested limiting acetaminophen package sizes, something already done in the United Kingdom, he said. The FDA is looking at both issues, the agency's Ganley said.
The proposal appeared Tuesday on the FDA's Web site ahead of its expected Dec. 26 publication in the Federal Register. Since it could take a year or more for the rule to become final, the FDA said it strongly encouraged companies to update their labels in the meantime, as some companies already have done.
Jenn - 05 Jan 2007 01:27 GMT Thanks for posting this! The thing is though, I wasn't taking the Vicodin anymore, and I told the pharmacist that. I can totally understand why she wouldn't believe me though, and I'm sure she was looking out for me.
Jenn
> FDA urges new warnings for pain relievers > Combinations of over-the-counter drugs can cause serious side effects [quoted text clipped - 123 lines] > already > have done. Private Private - 07 Jan 2007 03:51 GMT Vicodin ES -I believe has a high amount of Tylenol. There's 750mg of Tylenol in VicodinES or the chemical name acetaminophen --It will be listed as APAP on your bottle. The other chemical in vicodin is hydrocodone . So Vicodin ES is 7.5mg Hydrocodone & 750mg of Tylenol or chemical name acetaminophen /APAP.It will look like this on your bottle 7.5/750mg.. Next time your DR. gives you Vicodin ask for a lower Tylenol amount . They have low as 80mg Tylenol per pill available, 80mg is alot lower than 750mg per pill. They even make ibuprofen (advil)with vicodin(hydrocodone)........ 5000mg I think is the standard limit on acetaminophen (Tylenol) you liver can take a day. Here's some of the available vicodin mixtures. 5/500mg---------7.5/375mg---------10/500mg----------15/80mg-----WHY the hell Dr's keep prescribing the Vicodin ES' s gets me? they have much lower tylenol/hydrocodone mixtures available out there. I dont know why the pharmacist didnt recommend giving you lower Tylenol amounts in your vicodin.
karl1973@my-deja.com - 10 Jan 2007 17:45 GMT You'd think they'd love to give you Tylenol by the ton and kill you. After all, isn't that the whole point of Tylenol-laced crap like Vicodin -- kill the junkies with Tylenol as part of the Drug War.
Sure, you'll harm some non-junkies too, but you have to expect "colateral damage" in War.
If there is a legitimate reason for mixing an opioid and APAP together in one pill as is done with Vicodin or Percocet or Tylenol #3 etc., please explain the reasoning to me because the logic totally eludes me.
The pain-killing power of Vicodin certainly isn't coming from the Tylenol; it's coming from the hydrocodone. I can think of no reason to add APAP other than to discourage junkies -- who likely aren't discouraged as addicts tend to ignore things like their health & safety. So you just end up with junkies who have liver failure.
That sure doesn't sound like a nice way to treat your fellow human beings, even if they happen to be raging addicts. Maybe we can start putting Tylenol in vodka to kill off drunkards next.
John Smith ® - 11 Jan 2007 14:54 GMT > You'd think they'd love to give you Tylenol by the ton and kill you. > After all, isn't that the whole point of Tylenol-laced crap like [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > beings, even if they happen to be raging addicts. Maybe we can start > putting Tylenol in vodka to kill off drunkards next. There is supposed to be a synergistic effect between the hydrocodine and the APAP. Plus you get the added effect of fever reduction from the APAP, that you don't get with just the opiods. I think mixing hydrocodone with ibuprofen makes more sense.
If mixing APAP with other pain killers is cruel, then so is making denatured alcohol.
I believe our "drug policy" should be just like Mexico - all medications should be over the counter, no RX needed for anything. The junkies, those too stupid to understand how to take their meds, and those that like to experiment with drugs will be dead very quickly and the gene pool will be better off.
 Signature There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. --Mark Twain
karl1973@my-deja.com - 15 Jan 2007 00:05 GMT John Smith ? wrote:
> There is supposed to be a synergistic effect between the hydrocodine and the > APAP. Plus you get the added effect of fever reduction from the APAP, that > you don't get with just the opiods. Still no reason they have to be together in one pill. If they need APAP they can pick up a 500 count bottle of it for $8 at WalMart.
And how many people are taking Vicodin because they have a fever too? Give me a break.
> I think mixing hydrocodone with > ibuprofen makes more sense. Then the junkies can get ulcers from this gut-rotting NSAID.
> If mixing APAP with other pain killers is cruel, then so is making denatured > alcohol. That's done for tax reasons. They want alcoholics to pay the high sin taxes when they buy their bottle of sin.
> I believe our "drug policy" should be just like Mexico - all medications > should be over the counter, no RX needed for anything. Even Mexico requires an RX for controlled substances. They don't hand out morphine OTC (if they did nobody would want to leave Mexico!)
I agree it's silly how we regulate drugs so heavily. Yet, we put minimal regulation on alcohol, quite a potent drug. I have yet to see any grocery store that doesn't carry Bacardi 151 -- a fine way to OD. If overproof rum just isn't strong enough for you, you can buy 190-proof Everclear at some grocery stores in my area. I think any reasonable person would have to say that Everclear has more potential danger than 95% of what's found behind the pharmacy counter hidden from us because "it's dangerous".
John Smith ® - 16 Jan 2007 15:37 GMT John Smith ® wrote:
>> There is supposed to be a synergistic effect between the hydrocodine and >> the >> APAP. Plus you get the added effect of fever reduction from the APAP, >> that > >you don't get with just the opiods.
>Still no reason they have to be together in one pill. If they need >APAP they can pick up a 500 count bottle of it for $8 at WalMart.
>And how many people are taking Vicodin because they have a fever too? >Give me a break. Yes but you are looking at it from a "get high" prespective, and I am looking at it from and actual pain relief point of view.
>> I think mixing hydrocodone with > >ibuprofen makes more sense.
>Then the junkies can get ulcers from this gut-rotting NSAID. Again, these drugs aren't being produced to keep the junkies happy, they are supposed to be for legitimate medical use. Most real pain has inflamation associated with it, and adding IBU seems to give much better pain relief.
>> If mixing APAP with other pain killers is cruel, then so is making >> denatured >> alcohol.
>That's done for tax reasons. They want alcoholics to pay the high sin >taxes when they buy their bottle of sin. Could be, but the real alkie will swig down anything that gets them high. I knew a woman here that would drink isopropyl. She either had a background in chemistry, or did a lot of en vivo testing I guess. Isopropyl is a much better choice if you don't care about taste and just want to get high.
>> I believe our "drug policy" should be just like Mexico - all medications >> should be over the counter, no RX needed for anything.
>Even Mexico requires an RX for controlled substances. They don't hand >out morphine OTC (if they did nobody would want to leave Mexico!) When was the last time you were there? I was down in Ensanada (sp) about 2 years ago and the "Doctor" that was right next to several pharmacias would write you a scrip for anything you wanted for $5.00.
.>I agree it's silly how we regulate drugs so heavily. Yet, we put
>minimal regulation on alcohol, quite a potent drug. I have yet to see >any grocery store that doesn't carry Bacardi 151 -- a fine way to OD. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >danger than 95% of what's found behind the pharmacy counter hidden from >us because "it's dangerous". Where I live you won't find any alcohol at all (dry county). As I said, I think people should be able to kill themselves in any manner they want, as long as they don't bother me or I don't have to foot the bill.
 Signature There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. --Mark Twain
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