Medical Forum / General / Pharmacy / September 2003
Public antipathy toward pharmacy
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P T - 28 Sep 2003 14:46 GMT I went to a high school reunion last week. My occupation came up a lot. Sooner or later I got the usual health care directed anger: Why are drugs so expensive?
In addition, one person was complaining that during his recent same-day surgery he received a dose of Versed. "Why didn't they tell me they were going to give me that? Shouldn't I have had a choice?"
When I'm on the job, I'm paid to listen to this crap; Off duty, it's annoying, and I'm not sure the _best_ way to respond.
How do you deal with this?
James Pinkerton - 28 Sep 2003 16:17 GMT > I went to a high school reunion last week. My occupation came up a lot. > Sooner or later I got the usual health care directed anger: Why are [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > How do you deal with this? Say what you like since you are not at work.
Are not most Pharmacists self centered when it comes to public health? Are there any Pharmacists organizations that lobby for universal health care at affordable prices for all? Any Pharmacist organization equivalent to "Doctors Without Borders:? If we are in a movie it is probably as a comic We can't expect too much respect being sheep..
Why not just tell the guy that the reason drugs are so expensive is because our government is one of the few in the world that allows drug companies to charge anything they want for drugs. If you can't afford it, you don't need it! Take only generic drugs!
If the guy given the Versed had bothered to read the consent form he would have seen where they could give it to him. But anyway they should have explained and asked his permission before he was given drugs. Tell him to complain to the place where he was treated and he will probably get better service next time.
Nabs - 29 Sep 2003 06:16 GMT > > I went to a high school reunion last week. My occupation came up a lot. > > Sooner or later I got the usual health care directed anger: Why are [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > there any Pharmacists organizations that lobby for universal health care at > affordable prices for all? sure hope not- that's not their purpose
James Pinkerton - 29 Sep 2003 14:30 GMT > > Are not most Pharmacists self centered when it comes to public health? > Are there any Pharmacists organizations that lobby for universal health care
> at affordable prices for all? > > sure hope not- that's not their purpose What is their purpose besides an occassional free chicken dinner and to act as a social event for otherwise bored people?
If Pharmacy organizations are not out to promote public health, they don't deserve your support. Look how well you have been helped with pharmacy laws and insurance payments. We have the same problems that pharmacists have been complaining about for years. This is true of health care in general but the doctors have made a ton of money with the Medicare system. If you want an organization to look out for your self interests, then a good labor union or trade association would have been better.
So you think higher price drugs, less profit to retail pharmacists, and more people without health insurance does not concern you? Maybe all the lawyers in Congress should be running the health care industry if Pharmacists don't care about public health.
Glenn Gilbreath Jr. - 01 Jan 2002 06:00 GMT >From: "James Pinkerton" <tompink@megagate.com> >Subject: Re: Public antipathy toward pharmacy >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:30:04 -0500
>> > Are not most Pharmacists self centered when it comes to public health? >> Are there any Pharmacists organizations that lobby for universal health >care >> at affordable prices for all? >> >> sure hope not- that's not their purpose
>What is their purpose besides an occassional free chicken dinner and to act >as a social event for otherwise bored people?
>If Pharmacy organizations are not out to promote public health, they don't >deserve your support. Look how well you have been helped with pharmacy laws [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >an organization to look out for your self interests, then a good labor union >or trade association would have been better.
>So you think higher price drugs, less profit to retail pharmacists, and more >people without health insurance does not concern you? Maybe all the lawyers >in Congress should be running the health care industry if Pharmacists don't >care about public health. Hmm, I thought the lawyers in Congress were already running the health care industry! By damn, that's right! There the ones that have the system in the mess it's in. Perhaps, if we had a lot less lawyers, accountants, and otherwise unknowledgeable people (in terms of health care) running the system, then those of us providing the care would have a chance to straighten the mess out. Just my 2 cents...maybe a bit more...inflation you know... another side effect of too many lawyers in Congress. C U L8R! Wiz <{;-)
Wizard57M Glenn Gilbreath Jr. Registered Pharmacist http://members.surfbest.net/wizard57m@surfbest.net/index.htm -- DOS Internet, Close Windows and Keep the Internet Open! --
James Pinkerton - 30 Sep 2003 04:03 GMT > Hmm, I thought the lawyers in Congress were already running the > health care industry! By damn, that's right! There the ones [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > C U L8R! > Wiz <{;-)
> Wizard57M > Glenn Gilbreath Jr. > Registered Pharmacist > http://members.surfbest.net/wizard57m@surfbest.net/index.htm > -- DOS Internet, Close Windows and Keep the Internet Open! -- I got to agree with you there Glenn, one hundred per cent. We have lawyers making laws about drugs who only know about them from not inhaling pot while in college. When you get in congress you instantly become an expert in medicine, pharmacy, firearms, automobile safety, nuclear power and so forth. Its a miracle, isn't it?
Brad - 30 Sep 2003 14:54 GMT > > Hmm, I thought the lawyers in Congress were already running the > > health care industry! By damn, that's right! There the ones [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > medicine, pharmacy, firearms, automobile safety, nuclear power and so forth. > Its a miracle, isn't it? So what we really need is more pharmacist in the legislature. Here in Texas we only have 1 senator and 1 representative that are pharmacists.
Brad
Hillary Israeli - 29 Sep 2003 01:17 GMT *I went to a high school reunion last week. My occupation came up a lot. *Sooner or later I got the usual health care directed anger: Why are *drugs so expensive?
People ask me that a lot too (usually when I am at work and I have to dispense something expensive - or even something not-that-expensive, but expensive for a particular patient, like 3 weeks' worth of cephalexin for a 150 lb dog at 22 mg/kg TID). I don't let it bother me. I just explain that I don't set prices for drugs, talk a little bit about R&D and liability and litigation, and suggest taking it up with elected officials and/or pharmaceutical companies directly, not me! * *In addition, one person was complaining that during his recent same-day *surgery he received a dose of Versed. "Why didn't they tell me they were *going to give me that? Shouldn't I have had a choice?"
That's weird. I mean, as a person with a medical education, I have been known to ask anesthesiologists what drugs they planned to use on me - and sometimes why one rather than another - but I wouldn't really expect much of a choice! I would expect not to be given something I have a history of adverse reaction to but otherwise why would I as the patient want to tell the doctor in charge what drug to use? I am paying the doctor for his expertise in that regard!!! If I don't think the doctor has the ability to make the best decision, I will find a doctor who can, not tell the crappy doctor what to do. But maybe that is just me.
*When I'm on the job, I'm paid to listen to this crap; Off duty, it's *annoying, and I'm not sure the _best_ way to respond. * *How do you deal with this?
Well, when I am at a cocktail party and someone starts telling me about the evil moneygrubbing scumlord veterinarian who misdiagnosed their dog's imaginoma for a year until it turned into an imaginosarcoma and killed the dog and then had the temerity to expect them to pay his bill, I generally just put a concerned expression on my face, say "goodness, that sounds terrible," and change the subject, or excuse myself, or offer to refresh the person's drink, or whatever, just to not be in that conversation. Of course sometimes I can't help but make a snide or sarcastic remark putting the person in his or her place but most of the time I rein myself in.
 Signature hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net info@hillary.net "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est." not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)
Aimee G - 29 Sep 2003 02:32 GMT > *I went to a high school reunion last week. My occupation came up a lot. > *Sooner or later I got the usual health care directed anger: Why are [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > putting the person in his or her place but most of the time I rein myself > in. Not me. Say, "Imaginosarcoma? You mean as in big bloody painful tumors? Christ, I am trying to eat hors d'ouvres here!" Then stick a toothpick in one, hold it up, and say "Did it look like this?"
Aimee
Bob G - 29 Sep 2003 14:33 GMT I sometimes take the wholsalers order book and hand it to the patient...let him look up the wholseale price and let him/her do the math...
Then tell them that same drug would cost a Canadian Mexican or Whatever Pharmacy (and their customers) a lot less.
Honestly I have NEVER felt guilty of making a profit..never will be either BUT I do feel sorry for the patient who may or may not really need that "expensive" new antibiotic when plain old Amoxicillin would work just fine...
Bob Griffiths
Aimee G - 29 Sep 2003 02:30 GMT > I went to a high school reunion last week. My occupation came up a lot. > Sooner or later I got the usual health care directed anger: Why are [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > How do you deal with this? I say, Ask them. I'm only here for the cocktail weenies.
Or, say you will tell them if they answer your questions first. Things like, for a road construction worker, "How come they pay so many of you guys to stand around and watch one guy work?" or for the one who works check-out at Wal-Mart, "How do you people always manage to run out of change or need a price check just before It's my turn?" (or get into a finger licking rant).
Nobody will discuss work with you anymore.
Aimee
James Pinkerton - 29 Sep 2003 15:02 GMT > Or, say you will tell them if they answer your questions first. Things like, > for a road construction worker, "How come they pay so many of you guys to > stand around and watch one guy work?" *** That is because of the GodFather. If you know the right someone he can get you a good job "fixing" the road. They don't hire low paid illegals to fix the roads (they are actually Union men and women).Have you noticed that it takes almost forever to fix anything, and when it is fixed it is done so poorly that it needs fixing again.
or for the one who works check-out at Wal-Mart, "How do you people always manage to run out of change or need a
> price check just before It's my turn?" (or get into a finger licking rant). *** Its like some pharmacies I have worked in. People waiting for Rxs before you open and never caught up all day long. I suppose that is why they have their little slowdowns. Those people have close the lines sometimes. Do you suppose they let them go to the bathroom or do they stand there holding it like Pharmacists.
*** Why do they have a dozen plus checkout lanes at Walley World and only keep six or less of them open at any one time? But as the Japanese know, Walleys is for cheap merchandise, not quality goods or good service.
> Nobody will discuss work with you anymore. I have found the only things worth discussion involve religion, politics and work. This eliminates a lot of small talk as most people can't seem to discuss these subjects as they are too narrow minded.
James T.
> Aimee Paul Trusten - 29 Sep 2003 03:02 GMT Now that I think about it, when I'm out on a social occasion I am the recipient of really good drug information questions more often than I am the recipient of public antipathy. People are either asking me a "what's good for a....." question or asking about the side effects of a medication they are on. They know I have knowledge of these things. We must be doing something right in communicating!
 Signature Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Boulevard Apartment 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA 432-694-6208 ptrusten@cox.net
"There are two cardinal sins, from which all the others spring: impatience and laziness."
---Franz Kafka
> I went to a high school reunion last week. My occupation came up a lot. > Sooner or later I got the usual health care directed anger: Why are [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > How do you deal with this? Nicholas Coblio - 29 Sep 2003 11:48 GMT >Now that I think about it, when I'm out on a social occasion I am the >recipient of really good drug information questions more often than I am the >recipient of public antipathy. People are either asking me a "what's good >for a....." question or asking about the side effects of a medication they >are on. They know I have knowledge of these things. We must be doing >something right in communicating! Which brings up one of my sore points about the pharmacy profession, you are always giving away information. Ask an attorney, a physician, or an engineer some specific question at a party, and you will get a long pause and then a "hmmm, that is a very interesting question/problem. We should continue this discussion in my office, call my secretary and I will see that you get an immediate appointment".
One of the first habbits my bosses changed (when I left pharmacy for an analysts posistion) was to get me out of the habbit of giving free advice and come to the realization that information has value and should be charged for accordingly. People tend to consider the value of a profession by the fees they have to pay for information, not the commodity. As long as the information provided by pharmacists is free, people will not value the services as they should.
You can already see more and more folks turning to webmd and other on-line sources for drug information. After all, anyone can read about drugs on the "net", can't they. Few realize that to comprehend all they need to know about drug interactions and pharmacotherapy requires training which they don't have. Unfortunately the public does not know what they don't know, i.e.sophomoric..
Interestingly enough, they still want to pay me a consulting fee for things I do, even though data base architecture and systems design information is freely available on the web. They admit they do not want to take a chance misunderstaning the "technobabble", but medical terms apparently are no problem. I hope the irony of that is not lost on the group.
remove BIKINI to contact me (Stolen from a member of NANAE) coblioBIKINI@eng.usf.edu
anonymous - 29 Sep 2003 22:23 GMT The longer you practice, I feel, you must learn to seperate your profession from your personal life--- my usual response is to tell them that I am a pharmacist at work, and a father and a husband out of work-- call me when I am at work if they have a medical question.
I find you only need to say it a few times before people learn that you do not eat, sleep and breath pharmacy.
Joe -- Mass rph
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