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Medical Forum / General / Pharmacy / September 2003

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Public antipathy toward pharmacy

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P T - 28 Sep 2003 14:46 GMT
I went to a high school reunion last week. My occupation came up a lot.
Sooner or later I got the usual health care directed anger: Why are
drugs so expensive?

In addition, one person was complaining that during his recent same-day
surgery he received a dose of Versed. "Why didn't they tell me they were
going to give me that? Shouldn't I have had a choice?"

When I'm on the job, I'm paid to listen to this crap; Off duty, it's
annoying, and I'm not sure the _best_ way to respond.

How do you deal with this?
James Pinkerton - 28 Sep 2003 16:17 GMT
> I went to a high school reunion last week. My occupation came up a lot.
> Sooner or later I got the usual health care directed anger: Why are
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> How do you deal with this?

Say what you like since you are not at work.

Are not most Pharmacists self centered when it comes to public health?  Are
there any Pharmacists organizations that lobby for universal health care at
affordable prices for all?  Any Pharmacist organization equivalent to
"Doctors Without Borders:?  If we are in a movie it is probably as a comic
We can't expect too much respect being sheep..

Why not just tell the guy that the reason drugs are so expensive is because
our government is one of the few in the world that allows drug companies to
charge anything they want for drugs. If you can't afford it, you don't need
it!  Take only generic drugs!

If the guy given the Versed had bothered to read the consent form he would
have seen where they could give it to him.  But anyway they should have
explained and asked his permission before he was given drugs. Tell him to
complain to the place where he was treated and he will probably get better
service next time.
Nabs - 29 Sep 2003 06:16 GMT
> > I went to a high school reunion last week. My occupation came up a lot.
> > Sooner or later I got the usual health care directed anger: Why are
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> there any Pharmacists organizations that lobby for universal health care at
> affordable prices for all?

sure hope not- that's not their purpose
James Pinkerton - 29 Sep 2003 14:30 GMT
> > Are not most Pharmacists self centered when it comes to public health?
> Are there any Pharmacists organizations that lobby for universal health
care
> at affordable prices for all?
>
> sure hope not- that's not their purpose

What is their purpose besides an occassional free chicken dinner and to act
as a social event for otherwise bored people?

If Pharmacy organizations are not out to promote public health, they don't
deserve your support.  Look how well you have been helped with pharmacy laws
and insurance payments. We have  the same problems that  pharmacists have
been complaining about for years. This is true of health care in general but
the doctors have made a ton of money with the Medicare system.  If you want
an organization to look out for your self interests, then a good labor union
or trade association would have been better.

So you think higher price drugs, less profit to retail pharmacists, and more
people without health insurance does not concern you?  Maybe all the lawyers
in Congress should be running the health care industry if Pharmacists don't
care about public health.
Glenn Gilbreath Jr. - 01 Jan 2002 06:00 GMT
>From: "James Pinkerton" <tompink@megagate.com>
>Subject: Re: Public antipathy toward pharmacy
>Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:30:04 -0500

>> > Are not most Pharmacists self centered when it comes to public health?
>> Are there any Pharmacists organizations that lobby for universal health
>care
>> at affordable prices for all?
>>
>> sure hope not- that's not their purpose

>What is their purpose besides an occassional free chicken dinner and to act
>as a social event for otherwise bored people?

>If Pharmacy organizations are not out to promote public health, they don't
>deserve your support.  Look how well you have been helped with pharmacy laws
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>an organization to look out for your self interests, then a good labor union
>or trade association would have been better.

>So you think higher price drugs, less profit to retail pharmacists, and more
>people without health insurance does not concern you?  Maybe all the lawyers
>in Congress should be running the health care industry if Pharmacists don't
>care about public health.

Hmm, I thought the lawyers in Congress were already running the
health care industry!  By damn, that's right!  There the ones
that have the system in the mess it's in.  Perhaps, if we had a
lot less lawyers, accountants, and otherwise unknowledgeable
people (in terms of health care) running the system, then those
of us providing the care would have a chance to straighten the
mess out.
Just my 2 cents...maybe a bit more...inflation you know...
another side effect of too many lawyers in Congress.
C U L8R!
Wiz  <{;-)

Wizard57M
Glenn Gilbreath Jr.
Registered Pharmacist
http://members.surfbest.net/wizard57m@surfbest.net/index.htm
-- DOS Internet, Close Windows and Keep the Internet Open! --
James Pinkerton - 30 Sep 2003 04:03 GMT
> Hmm, I thought the lawyers in Congress were already running the
> health care industry!  By damn, that's right!  There the ones
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> C U L8R!
> Wiz  <{;-)

> Wizard57M
> Glenn Gilbreath Jr.
> Registered Pharmacist
> http://members.surfbest.net/wizard57m@surfbest.net/index.htm
> -- DOS Internet, Close Windows and Keep the Internet Open! --

I got to agree with you there Glenn, one hundred per cent.  We have lawyers
making laws about drugs who only know about them from not inhaling pot while
in college. When you get in congress you instantly become an expert in
medicine, pharmacy, firearms, automobile safety, nuclear power and so forth.
Its a miracle, isn't it?
Brad - 30 Sep 2003 14:54 GMT
> > Hmm, I thought the lawyers in Congress were already running the
> > health care industry!  By damn, that's right!  There the ones
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> medicine, pharmacy, firearms, automobile safety, nuclear power and so forth.
> Its a miracle, isn't it?

So what we really need is more pharmacist in the legislature.
Here in Texas we only have 1 senator and 1 representative that are
pharmacists.

Brad
Hillary Israeli - 29 Sep 2003 01:17 GMT
*I went to a high school reunion last week. My occupation came up a lot.
*Sooner or later I got the usual health care directed anger: Why are
*drugs so expensive?

People ask me that a lot too (usually when I am at work and I have to
dispense something expensive - or even something not-that-expensive, but
expensive for a particular patient, like 3 weeks' worth of cephalexin for
a 150 lb dog at 22 mg/kg TID). I don't let it bother me. I just explain
that I don't set prices for drugs, talk a little bit about R&D and
liability and litigation, and suggest taking it up with elected officials
and/or pharmaceutical companies directly, not me!

* *In addition, one person was complaining that during his recent same-day
*surgery he received a dose of Versed. "Why didn't they tell me they were
*going to give me that? Shouldn't I have had a choice?"

That's weird. I mean, as a person with a medical education, I have been
known to ask anesthesiologists what drugs they planned to use on me - and
sometimes why one rather than another - but I wouldn't really expect much
of a choice! I would expect not to be given something I have a history of
adverse reaction to but otherwise why would I as the patient want to tell
the doctor in charge what drug to use? I am paying the doctor for his
expertise in that regard!!! If I don't think the doctor has the ability to
make the best decision, I will find a doctor who can, not tell the crappy
doctor what to do. But maybe that is just me.

*When I'm on the job, I'm paid to listen to this crap; Off duty, it's
*annoying, and I'm not sure the _best_ way to respond.
*
*How do you deal with this?

Well, when I am at a cocktail party and someone starts telling me about
the evil moneygrubbing scumlord veterinarian who misdiagnosed their dog's
imaginoma for a year until it turned into an imaginosarcoma and killed the
dog and then had the temerity to expect them to pay his bill, I generally
just put a concerned expression on my face, say "goodness, that sounds
terrible," and change the subject, or excuse myself, or offer to refresh
the person's drink, or whatever, just to not be in that conversation.
Of course sometimes I can't help but make a snide or sarcastic remark
putting the person in his or her place but most of the time I rein myself
in.

Signature

    hillary israeli vmd  http://www.hillary.net  info@hillary.net
               "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
                not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

Aimee G - 29 Sep 2003 02:32 GMT
> *I went to a high school reunion last week. My occupation came up a lot.
> *Sooner or later I got the usual health care directed anger: Why are
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> putting the person in his or her place but most of the time I rein myself
> in.

Not me. Say, "Imaginosarcoma? You mean as in big bloody painful tumors?
Christ, I am trying to eat hors d'ouvres here!" Then stick a toothpick in
one, hold it up, and say "Did it look like this?"

Aimee
Bob G - 29 Sep 2003 14:33 GMT
I sometimes take the wholsalers order book and hand it to the
patient...let him look up the wholseale price and let him/her do the math...

Then tell them that same drug would cost a Canadian Mexican or Whatever
Pharmacy (and their customers) a lot less.

Honestly I have NEVER felt guilty of making a profit..never will be
either BUT I do feel sorry for the patient who may or may not really
need that "expensive" new antibiotic when plain old Amoxicillin would
work just fine...

Bob Griffiths
Aimee G - 29 Sep 2003 02:30 GMT
> I went to a high school reunion last week. My occupation came up a lot.
> Sooner or later I got the usual health care directed anger: Why are
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> How do you deal with this?

I say, Ask them. I'm only here for the cocktail weenies.

Or, say you will tell them if they answer your questions first. Things like,
for a road construction worker, "How come they pay so many of you guys to
stand around and watch one guy work?" or for the one who works check-out at
Wal-Mart, "How do you people always manage to run out of change or need a
price check just before It's my turn?" (or get into a finger licking rant).

Nobody will discuss work with you anymore.

Aimee
James Pinkerton - 29 Sep 2003 15:02 GMT
> Or, say you will tell them if they answer your questions first. Things like,
> for a road construction worker, "How come they pay so many of you guys to
> stand around and watch one guy work?"

*** That is because of the GodFather. If you know the right someone he can
get you a good job "fixing" the road.  They don't hire low paid illegals to
fix the roads (they are actually Union men and women).Have you noticed that
it takes almost forever to fix anything, and when it is fixed it is done so
poorly that it needs fixing again.

or for the one who works check-out at Wal-Mart, "How do you people always
manage to run out of change or need a
> price check just before It's my turn?" (or get into a finger licking rant).

*** Its like some pharmacies I have worked in.  People waiting for Rxs
before you open and never caught up all day long. I suppose that is why they
have their little slowdowns. Those people have close the lines sometimes.
Do you suppose they let them go to the bathroom or do they stand there
holding it like Pharmacists.

*** Why do they have a dozen plus checkout lanes at Walley World and only
keep six or less of them open at any one time?   But as the Japanese know,
Walleys is for cheap merchandise, not quality goods or good service.

> Nobody will discuss work with you anymore.

I have found the only things worth discussion involve religion, politics and
work.  This eliminates a lot of small talk as most people can't seem to
discuss these subjects as they are too narrow minded.

James T.

> Aimee
Paul Trusten - 29 Sep 2003 03:02 GMT
Now that I think about it, when I'm out on a social occasion I am the
recipient of really good drug information questions more often than I am the
recipient of public antipathy. People are either asking me a "what's good
for a....." question or asking about the side effects of a medication they
are on. They know I have knowledge of these things. We must be doing
something right in communicating!
Signature

Paul Trusten, R.Ph.
3609 Caldera Boulevard Apartment 122
Midland TX 79707-2872 USA
432-694-6208
ptrusten@cox.net

"There are two cardinal sins, from which
all the others spring: impatience and laziness."

                                         ---Franz Kafka

> I went to a high school reunion last week. My occupation came up a lot.
> Sooner or later I got the usual health care directed anger: Why are
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> How do you deal with this?
Nicholas Coblio - 29 Sep 2003 11:48 GMT
>Now that I think about it, when I'm out on a social occasion I am the
>recipient of really good drug information questions more often than I am the
>recipient of public antipathy. People are either asking me a "what's good
>for a....." question or asking about the side effects of a medication they
>are on. They know I have knowledge of these things. We must be doing
>something right in communicating!
Which brings up one of my sore points about the pharmacy profession,
you are always giving away information.  Ask an attorney, a physician,
or an engineer some specific question at a party, and you will get a
long pause and then a "hmmm, that is a very interesting
question/problem.  We should continue this discussion in my office,
call my secretary and I will see that you get an immediate
appointment".  

One of the first habbits my bosses changed (when I left pharmacy for
an analysts posistion) was to get me out of the habbit of giving free
advice and come to the realization that information has value and
should be charged for accordingly.  People tend to consider the value
of a profession by the fees they have to pay for information, not the
commodity.    As long as the information provided by pharmacists is
free, people will not value the services as they should.  

You can already see more and more folks turning to webmd and other
on-line sources for drug information.  After all, anyone can read
about drugs on the "net", can't they.  Few realize that to comprehend
all they need to know about drug interactions and pharmacotherapy
requires training which they don't have.  Unfortunately the public
does not know what they don't know, i.e.sophomoric..

Interestingly enough, they still want to pay me a consulting fee for
things I do, even though data base architecture and systems design
information is freely available on the web.  They admit they do not
want to take a chance misunderstaning the "technobabble", but medical
terms apparently are no problem.  I hope the irony of that is not lost
on the group.

remove BIKINI to contact me (Stolen from a member of NANAE)
coblioBIKINI@eng.usf.edu
anonymous - 29 Sep 2003 22:23 GMT
The longer you practice, I feel, you must learn to seperate your profession
from your personal life--- my usual response is to tell them that I am a
pharmacist at work, and a  father and a husband out of work-- call me when I
am at work if they have a medical question.

I find you only need to say it a few times before people learn that you do
not eat, sleep and breath pharmacy.

Joe  -- Mass rph
 
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