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Medical Forum / General / Pharmacy / January 2008

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Any effective legal stimulants?

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Bob Travis - 10 Sep 2005 20:51 GMT
In Kentucky you can only get ephedra or ephedrine HCL (which I prefer) from
a pharmacy by signing for it like for exempt narcotics, but trying to get a
pharmacist to order it for you is harder than pulling adolescents teeth.

I would like to know what procedures need to be followed in states like
Kentucky to order it yourself or is there any law that requires a pharmacist
to make an effort to order it for you (instead giving youu their typical
lame excuse, "I can't order it because my distributor doesn't carry it.")
Humbug!  IMNSHO because Eli Lily makes Ephedrine HCL 25 mg (100 capsules)
(well within the legal limit of what can be purchased monthly here in
Kentucky) so if pharmacists can get Prozac from Eli Lily (which they most
definitely can) it stands to reason they could get Ephedrine HCL as well,
and so could their distriburors.

The other thing I can't understand is why is is so hard for a 56 year old
man to buy ANY exempt drugs? Isn't that why they are called exempt? I
remember when I was a kid, my dad, who died at age 47, was able to go down
to the corner to Portnoy's Pharmacy and Mr. Portnoy would sell him any
exempt narcotic, from Cherocol to Kaopectate (with Paragoric [ticture of
opium] and would NEVER look at dad like he was some kind of addict, and dad
shopped at Portnoy's from the time we moved to Brooklyn (when he was about
30 years old) to the time we moved to Jersey (when he was about 40). Here I
am 26 years older than dad was when he first purchased Cherocol with codeine
and not only do pharmacists look at me like I'm some kind of addict, they
aren't even polite and they will never make any effort to even attempt to
order it for me.

It makes me feel empathetic when I hear of people going postal because
people are so much meaner and suspicious now than they were in the 1950's
and 1960's. While I could never take another's life I can certainly
empathize with those who do because some people get treated so unfairly for
no reason at all. If I had Elvis' or Mick Jagger's money, or even Britney
Spears or Christina Aguilera's money I could probably go to any one of 500
pharmacies and not just get exempt naracotics, I could probably get anything
I asked for if I just asked on the web first which doctors to a precription
from. It isn't fair that the poor and lower middle class are treated with
such suspicion. How am I any different at 54 than my dad was at 30?

Well, right now, with ephedrine products being so hard to come by are there
any other legal stimulants abong the hundreds of new "ephedra free" products
for weight loss that are just as good as ephedrine? I just ask because I
don't have any background in organic chemistry for one, and for two they say
don't do the crime if you can't do the time, and being claustrophobic I
could definitely not do the time, so "homemade" is out of the question. I
just want something legal that gets the job done as well as ephedrine HCL 25
mgs.

Any ideas on where I can start?  (Don't say my psychiatrist. I went to one
of those as a kid and by the end of our relationship I was trading him weed
for dexadrine, so you can see he was a big help solving my "need to be FULLY
alert" problems. It didn't last though because we had to move to Kentucky
and down here doctors are very very reluctant to prescribe or give physician
samples of dexadrine or even Provigil to anyone. Yeah the world sucks but
there has do be a legal workaround, where do I start?  Before I spend hours
at the university libraries determining strategies that work I thought I
should ask her first.

Please don't tell me the stuff is bad for my heart. I have been taking
strong stimulants for as long as I could get them and my cardiologist says
my heart is fine (so far). I think it's people with weak hearts that give
this stuff a bad name. Doesn't that suck bigtime that EVERYONE is treated
like they have a weak heart even if they have a strong one?

- Bob -
HankG - 10 Sep 2005 21:35 GMT
> In Kentucky you can only get ephedra or ephedrine HCL (which I prefer) from
> a pharmacy by signing for it like for exempt narcotics, but trying to get a
> pharmacist to order it for you is harder than pulling adolescents teeth.

...rest snipped for mental health

The term, "exempt narcotic" referred to the fact that the product was not
taxed (did not carry a federal tax stamp on each immediate container as were
required on bottles of 'non-exempt products [no longer done]) and was a
function of the amount of narcotic agent per unit volume or weight of the
final product.  It had nothing to do with the strength (perceived or real)
of the active ingredient, but rather the amount of diluent or inactive
substances present were thought to be sufficient to dissuade anyone from
attempting to separate the active substance.  Still, pharmacists were
required to record the sale.

There were instances of abuse (relatively few) where people would boil-down
paregoric to prepare a crude morphine injection.  Terpin Hydrate & Codeine
Elixir was another favorite.  Hell, why bother to separate?  A 4 oz bottle
would contain about a quarter of a gram of codeine, plus it was over 80
proof as I recall.  Most addicts would just guzzle the whole bottle.

Just as pharmacists today are required to assess the authenticity of
narcotic prescriptions, they were also required to determine that exempt
narcotic preps were being obtained for legitimate purposes.  Guess they're
just too damn many creeps out there today.
tram - 10 Sep 2005 21:57 GMT
To the OP....It's quite easy to obtain Ephedrine HCL online.  Or, if
you are close enough to the border, just go to missouri and buy it at a
gas station.  (most sunmarts and many indi gas stations carry in.  They
are in softgel form now, and are paired with 200 mg guaf.)
You can go to http://www.bodydynamicsinc.net/main.html
and order.  This is an OTC drug, as long as it's combined with guaf...
You can order this online many other places as well.
Nicole H - 11 Sep 2005 05:57 GMT
23 yrs ago, I could go into a grocery store and purchase tobacco (for my
father) at the age of 7.
In the past, heroin was used frequently in medicine.  times have changed.

You can definitely order all types of ephedra based pills online.... take
no-doz (caffiene pills), drink Red Bull, Monster, any of the energy drinks.
there are even real supplements that boost energy.

If you need a stimulant every day, you should probably find out why...
something may be wrong.  I take 1 Provigil 200mg twice a day but I have a
few health problems.
> In Kentucky you can only get ephedra or ephedrine HCL (which I prefer)
> from a pharmacy by signing for it like for exempt narcotics, but trying to
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>
> - Bob -
tram - 11 Sep 2005 08:38 GMT
How does Provigil work for you? I believe that it's a CIV, but doesn't
really have any abusable properties.  From what I understand, it just
brings you to a state of a "natural" awake, as opposed to the jittery,
talkative alerness of caffiene/amphetamines/cocaine...  Is this true?
What are your feelings on Provigil?
Nicole H - 12 Sep 2005 18:52 GMT
I love Provigil.  I have systemic lupus, fms, rls, hypothyroid, etc, etc,
etc.  Fatigue is a major problem for me.  I don't cycle properly when I'm
asleep so I wake up more tired.

I don't fret over abusable properties.  I'm also a chronic pain patient and
take a sched 2 daily and use a sched 3 for break thru pain.

I used Adderall (extended release) before Provigil was available.  It worked
really well...... I found that I slept better (sleep is a HUGE problem area
for me) on the Adderall.  As it was wearing off, I naturally would fall
asleep.  Provigil doesn't have that same affect on me.  I never had any
negative side effects from Adderall.

I take 1 Provigil in the morning, then another around 1pm.  There are still
times when that's not enough...
hope that makes sense.

Nicole
> How does Provigil work for you? I believe that it's a CIV, but doesn't
> really have any abusable properties.  From what I understand, it just
> brings you to a state of a "natural" awake, as opposed to the jittery,
> talkative alerness of caffiene/amphetamines/cocaine...  Is this true?
> What are your feelings on Provigil?
tram - 12 Sep 2005 21:01 GMT
Nicole,
Basically all I was wondering is if when you are on provigil, if it
feels like you are on a stimulant.  Not so much about the abusability.
Thank you for your reply though.
Also, as a side note, I hope that you are getting adequate therapy for
your pain needs, as I know that the DEA has overshadowed the needs of
some chronic pain patients, in spite of the intractable pain act.
regards,
tram
Nicole H - 14 Sep 2005 01:41 GMT
> Nicole,
> Basically all I was wondering is if when you are on provigil, if it
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> regards,
> tram
Bob Travis - 10 Oct 2005 01:36 GMT
Um, I wouldn't want to have all those problems just to get a Provigil
script. Unfortunately, if I tell the truth and say I like to stay up all
night and then get up early and still have a productive day, I don't think
many physicians would buy it. In fact, were I a physician I wouldn't buy it
either, so what's a fellow to do?  :-)

Rediscover coffee after they have virtually made ephedrine all but illegal
in my state? No, not 100% illegal, I can pay a pharmacy $41 for an off
brand, for what Rexall used to sell for $3.97 for the same quantity of an
Eli Lilly name brand product (100 tablets x 25 mg.), but I would rather just
bitch than pay $37 more than I used to pay just because pharmacies are as
bad as gas stations ... when there's a scarcity, or just a perceived
scarcity, pharmacies are as likely to engage in price gouging as gas
stations. The only difference is the cops will arrest crooked gas station
owners but they won't arrest crooked pharmacists in a million years because
pharmacists don't post drug prices in conspicuous public places like gas
station owners do with gas prices; only a regular customer would know a
gouge where a gouge exists where a pharmacy is concerned.

Last of all I don't care that ephedrine is used as a precursor for illegal
methedrine manufacture. I think the effects of ephedrine are good enough for
me without chemical alteration, so why do innocent people like me have to be
punished because some people use it for the wrong thing? In fact, in my
state, you can be convicted of intent to manufacture methedrine for just
having two items used in the production of the drug.

I don't know ANYONE, out of every one I know, who doesn't have water and a
thermometer in their homes. According to the legislative rationale we're all
felons right there, so I'm not going to say what state I'm in because I
don't want mom, dad, all my brothers and sisters, cousins, friends,
grandparents, doctors, lawyers, butchers, clergymen and clergywomen,
priests, nuns, barbers, well I could type a million more professions because
there are millions of people in my state, and I don't want them all to have
felonies on their record because they all own two items necessary in the
production of methedrine (and if I tell, then you tell, and we're all
screwed).

I just expound to illustrate the fact that just because you have a precursor
for a controlled substance in your possession it is not the same as having
the controlled substance itself, just as having water and a thermometer does
not automatically lead any person with half a brain to the conclusion that
the owners of these materials have plans to make illegal drugs with them.
Intuitively I assume the intent of this new law is "any two items which do
not have any common household use and which are almost exclusively used in
said concentrations for the purpose of producing meth," but that is not what
the law says, so a zealous prosecutor could use the law as it is presently
worded to get a warrant against any person in the state who has water and a
thermometer. Any lawyer with one-tenth of a brain could easily argue for
his/her client successfully if said "logic" were used to get a warrant, I
only mention it on principle and not because I take the situation seriously.
If I took it seriously I wouldn't write about it in a newsgroup that will be
archived in thousands of places and may potentially be accessible for
hundreds of years. All it means is a lot of feedback -- maybe not all at
once but over a period of time -- and people are often influenced by what
they read: sometimes positively, sometimes negatively, but regardless, once
it's read it's mentally archived, so when the time to vote comes around
people may be influenced without even knowing why. Pretty funny, huh?

Use the newsgroups, get your ideas out, get feedback, think, form opinions,
acquire knowledge, assimilate, absorb, grow. (not in any particular order)

>I love Provigil.  I have systemic lupus, fms, rls, hypothyroid, etc, etc,
>etc.  Fatigue is a major problem for me.  I don't cycle properly when I'm
>asleep so I wake up more tired.
Pumbaa - 11 Sep 2005 14:45 GMT
> 23 yrs ago, I could go into a grocery store and purchase tobacco (for my
father) at the age of 7.
> In the past, heroin was used frequently in medicine. times have changed.
<Snip>

I remember when paregoric was available without a Rx. The drug and gun
regulations are tougher than ever but the abuse of drugs and criminal use of
firearms is just as bad.  How about the liquor stores that on a regular
basis sell liquor to people that are known alcoholics? I suppose the
government learned from national prohibition that you can't keep booze away
from drinkers, especially addicted drinkers, so they gave up.  Now they do
the same thing with cannabis and crack and it still doesn't solve the
problem.

I get my coffee fix every morning. I don't see any warning on the can of
Folgers about it's being addictive or not giving it to children. I started
drinking coffee at a very early age.
Nicole H - 12 Sep 2005 18:47 GMT
At 6 months of age, Pepsi was put into my bottle.   Every morning starts out
with a pepsi and has for as long as I can remember. Disgusting!
>> 23 yrs ago, I could go into a grocery store and purchase tobacco (for my
> father) at the age of 7.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Folgers about it's being addictive or not giving it to children. I started
> drinking coffee at a very early age.
Frederick Williams - 04 Jan 2008 13:03 GMT
> ... my dad, who died at age 47, was able to go down
> to the corner to Portnoy's Pharmacy and Mr. Portnoy would sell him any
> exempt narcotic,

No complaints then?

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