Medical Forum / General / Pharmacy / January 2008
Any effective legal stimulants?
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Bob Travis - 10 Sep 2005 20:51 GMT In Kentucky you can only get ephedra or ephedrine HCL (which I prefer) from a pharmacy by signing for it like for exempt narcotics, but trying to get a pharmacist to order it for you is harder than pulling adolescents teeth.
I would like to know what procedures need to be followed in states like Kentucky to order it yourself or is there any law that requires a pharmacist to make an effort to order it for you (instead giving youu their typical lame excuse, "I can't order it because my distributor doesn't carry it.") Humbug! IMNSHO because Eli Lily makes Ephedrine HCL 25 mg (100 capsules) (well within the legal limit of what can be purchased monthly here in Kentucky) so if pharmacists can get Prozac from Eli Lily (which they most definitely can) it stands to reason they could get Ephedrine HCL as well, and so could their distriburors.
The other thing I can't understand is why is is so hard for a 56 year old man to buy ANY exempt drugs? Isn't that why they are called exempt? I remember when I was a kid, my dad, who died at age 47, was able to go down to the corner to Portnoy's Pharmacy and Mr. Portnoy would sell him any exempt narcotic, from Cherocol to Kaopectate (with Paragoric [ticture of opium] and would NEVER look at dad like he was some kind of addict, and dad shopped at Portnoy's from the time we moved to Brooklyn (when he was about 30 years old) to the time we moved to Jersey (when he was about 40). Here I am 26 years older than dad was when he first purchased Cherocol with codeine and not only do pharmacists look at me like I'm some kind of addict, they aren't even polite and they will never make any effort to even attempt to order it for me.
It makes me feel empathetic when I hear of people going postal because people are so much meaner and suspicious now than they were in the 1950's and 1960's. While I could never take another's life I can certainly empathize with those who do because some people get treated so unfairly for no reason at all. If I had Elvis' or Mick Jagger's money, or even Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera's money I could probably go to any one of 500 pharmacies and not just get exempt naracotics, I could probably get anything I asked for if I just asked on the web first which doctors to a precription from. It isn't fair that the poor and lower middle class are treated with such suspicion. How am I any different at 54 than my dad was at 30?
Well, right now, with ephedrine products being so hard to come by are there any other legal stimulants abong the hundreds of new "ephedra free" products for weight loss that are just as good as ephedrine? I just ask because I don't have any background in organic chemistry for one, and for two they say don't do the crime if you can't do the time, and being claustrophobic I could definitely not do the time, so "homemade" is out of the question. I just want something legal that gets the job done as well as ephedrine HCL 25 mgs.
Any ideas on where I can start? (Don't say my psychiatrist. I went to one of those as a kid and by the end of our relationship I was trading him weed for dexadrine, so you can see he was a big help solving my "need to be FULLY alert" problems. It didn't last though because we had to move to Kentucky and down here doctors are very very reluctant to prescribe or give physician samples of dexadrine or even Provigil to anyone. Yeah the world sucks but there has do be a legal workaround, where do I start? Before I spend hours at the university libraries determining strategies that work I thought I should ask her first.
Please don't tell me the stuff is bad for my heart. I have been taking strong stimulants for as long as I could get them and my cardiologist says my heart is fine (so far). I think it's people with weak hearts that give this stuff a bad name. Doesn't that suck bigtime that EVERYONE is treated like they have a weak heart even if they have a strong one?
- Bob -
HankG - 10 Sep 2005 21:35 GMT > In Kentucky you can only get ephedra or ephedrine HCL (which I prefer) from > a pharmacy by signing for it like for exempt narcotics, but trying to get a > pharmacist to order it for you is harder than pulling adolescents teeth. ...rest snipped for mental health
The term, "exempt narcotic" referred to the fact that the product was not taxed (did not carry a federal tax stamp on each immediate container as were required on bottles of 'non-exempt products [no longer done]) and was a function of the amount of narcotic agent per unit volume or weight of the final product. It had nothing to do with the strength (perceived or real) of the active ingredient, but rather the amount of diluent or inactive substances present were thought to be sufficient to dissuade anyone from attempting to separate the active substance. Still, pharmacists were required to record the sale.
There were instances of abuse (relatively few) where people would boil-down paregoric to prepare a crude morphine injection. Terpin Hydrate & Codeine Elixir was another favorite. Hell, why bother to separate? A 4 oz bottle would contain about a quarter of a gram of codeine, plus it was over 80 proof as I recall. Most addicts would just guzzle the whole bottle.
Just as pharmacists today are required to assess the authenticity of narcotic prescriptions, they were also required to determine that exempt narcotic preps were being obtained for legitimate purposes. Guess they're just too damn many creeps out there today.
tram - 10 Sep 2005 21:57 GMT To the OP....It's quite easy to obtain Ephedrine HCL online. Or, if you are close enough to the border, just go to missouri and buy it at a gas station. (most sunmarts and many indi gas stations carry in. They are in softgel form now, and are paired with 200 mg guaf.) You can go to http://www.bodydynamicsinc.net/main.html and order. This is an OTC drug, as long as it's combined with guaf... You can order this online many other places as well.
Nicole H - 11 Sep 2005 05:57 GMT 23 yrs ago, I could go into a grocery store and purchase tobacco (for my father) at the age of 7. In the past, heroin was used frequently in medicine. times have changed.
You can definitely order all types of ephedra based pills online.... take no-doz (caffiene pills), drink Red Bull, Monster, any of the energy drinks. there are even real supplements that boost energy.
If you need a stimulant every day, you should probably find out why... something may be wrong. I take 1 Provigil 200mg twice a day but I have a few health problems.
> In Kentucky you can only get ephedra or ephedrine HCL (which I prefer) > from a pharmacy by signing for it like for exempt narcotics, but trying to [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > - Bob - tram - 11 Sep 2005 08:38 GMT How does Provigil work for you? I believe that it's a CIV, but doesn't really have any abusable properties. From what I understand, it just brings you to a state of a "natural" awake, as opposed to the jittery, talkative alerness of caffiene/amphetamines/cocaine... Is this true? What are your feelings on Provigil?
Nicole H - 12 Sep 2005 18:52 GMT I love Provigil. I have systemic lupus, fms, rls, hypothyroid, etc, etc, etc. Fatigue is a major problem for me. I don't cycle properly when I'm asleep so I wake up more tired.
I don't fret over abusable properties. I'm also a chronic pain patient and take a sched 2 daily and use a sched 3 for break thru pain.
I used Adderall (extended release) before Provigil was available. It worked really well...... I found that I slept better (sleep is a HUGE problem area for me) on the Adderall. As it was wearing off, I naturally would fall asleep. Provigil doesn't have that same affect on me. I never had any negative side effects from Adderall.
I take 1 Provigil in the morning, then another around 1pm. There are still times when that's not enough... hope that makes sense.
Nicole
> How does Provigil work for you? I believe that it's a CIV, but doesn't > really have any abusable properties. From what I understand, it just > brings you to a state of a "natural" awake, as opposed to the jittery, > talkative alerness of caffiene/amphetamines/cocaine... Is this true? > What are your feelings on Provigil? tram - 12 Sep 2005 21:01 GMT Nicole, Basically all I was wondering is if when you are on provigil, if it feels like you are on a stimulant. Not so much about the abusability. Thank you for your reply though. Also, as a side note, I hope that you are getting adequate therapy for your pain needs, as I know that the DEA has overshadowed the needs of some chronic pain patients, in spite of the intractable pain act. regards, tram
Nicole H - 14 Sep 2005 01:41 GMT > Nicole, > Basically all I was wondering is if when you are on provigil, if it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > regards, > tram Bob Travis - 10 Oct 2005 01:36 GMT Um, I wouldn't want to have all those problems just to get a Provigil script. Unfortunately, if I tell the truth and say I like to stay up all night and then get up early and still have a productive day, I don't think many physicians would buy it. In fact, were I a physician I wouldn't buy it either, so what's a fellow to do? :-)
Rediscover coffee after they have virtually made ephedrine all but illegal in my state? No, not 100% illegal, I can pay a pharmacy $41 for an off brand, for what Rexall used to sell for $3.97 for the same quantity of an Eli Lilly name brand product (100 tablets x 25 mg.), but I would rather just bitch than pay $37 more than I used to pay just because pharmacies are as bad as gas stations ... when there's a scarcity, or just a perceived scarcity, pharmacies are as likely to engage in price gouging as gas stations. The only difference is the cops will arrest crooked gas station owners but they won't arrest crooked pharmacists in a million years because pharmacists don't post drug prices in conspicuous public places like gas station owners do with gas prices; only a regular customer would know a gouge where a gouge exists where a pharmacy is concerned.
Last of all I don't care that ephedrine is used as a precursor for illegal methedrine manufacture. I think the effects of ephedrine are good enough for me without chemical alteration, so why do innocent people like me have to be punished because some people use it for the wrong thing? In fact, in my state, you can be convicted of intent to manufacture methedrine for just having two items used in the production of the drug.
I don't know ANYONE, out of every one I know, who doesn't have water and a thermometer in their homes. According to the legislative rationale we're all felons right there, so I'm not going to say what state I'm in because I don't want mom, dad, all my brothers and sisters, cousins, friends, grandparents, doctors, lawyers, butchers, clergymen and clergywomen, priests, nuns, barbers, well I could type a million more professions because there are millions of people in my state, and I don't want them all to have felonies on their record because they all own two items necessary in the production of methedrine (and if I tell, then you tell, and we're all screwed).
I just expound to illustrate the fact that just because you have a precursor for a controlled substance in your possession it is not the same as having the controlled substance itself, just as having water and a thermometer does not automatically lead any person with half a brain to the conclusion that the owners of these materials have plans to make illegal drugs with them. Intuitively I assume the intent of this new law is "any two items which do not have any common household use and which are almost exclusively used in said concentrations for the purpose of producing meth," but that is not what the law says, so a zealous prosecutor could use the law as it is presently worded to get a warrant against any person in the state who has water and a thermometer. Any lawyer with one-tenth of a brain could easily argue for his/her client successfully if said "logic" were used to get a warrant, I only mention it on principle and not because I take the situation seriously. If I took it seriously I wouldn't write about it in a newsgroup that will be archived in thousands of places and may potentially be accessible for hundreds of years. All it means is a lot of feedback -- maybe not all at once but over a period of time -- and people are often influenced by what they read: sometimes positively, sometimes negatively, but regardless, once it's read it's mentally archived, so when the time to vote comes around people may be influenced without even knowing why. Pretty funny, huh?
Use the newsgroups, get your ideas out, get feedback, think, form opinions, acquire knowledge, assimilate, absorb, grow. (not in any particular order)
>I love Provigil. I have systemic lupus, fms, rls, hypothyroid, etc, etc, >etc. Fatigue is a major problem for me. I don't cycle properly when I'm >asleep so I wake up more tired. Pumbaa - 11 Sep 2005 14:45 GMT > 23 yrs ago, I could go into a grocery store and purchase tobacco (for my father) at the age of 7.
> In the past, heroin was used frequently in medicine. times have changed. <Snip>
I remember when paregoric was available without a Rx. The drug and gun regulations are tougher than ever but the abuse of drugs and criminal use of firearms is just as bad. How about the liquor stores that on a regular basis sell liquor to people that are known alcoholics? I suppose the government learned from national prohibition that you can't keep booze away from drinkers, especially addicted drinkers, so they gave up. Now they do the same thing with cannabis and crack and it still doesn't solve the problem.
I get my coffee fix every morning. I don't see any warning on the can of Folgers about it's being addictive or not giving it to children. I started drinking coffee at a very early age.
Nicole H - 12 Sep 2005 18:47 GMT At 6 months of age, Pepsi was put into my bottle. Every morning starts out with a pepsi and has for as long as I can remember. Disgusting!
>> 23 yrs ago, I could go into a grocery store and purchase tobacco (for my > father) at the age of 7. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Folgers about it's being addictive or not giving it to children. I started > drinking coffee at a very early age. Frederick Williams - 04 Jan 2008 13:03 GMT > ... my dad, who died at age 47, was able to go down > to the corner to Portnoy's Pharmacy and Mr. Portnoy would sell him any > exempt narcotic, No complaints then?
 Signature How unlike the home life of our own dear Queen. Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.
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