Medical Forum / General / Pharmacy / July 2005
The War On Mannitol: Frontline Reporting From A New Conscript
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Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 15 Jul 2005 02:10 GMT To: Spectrum Chemical 755 Jersey Avenue, New Brunswick, New Jersey 08901 Date: July 14, 2005 Subject: My Laboratory's Use For the DEA Monitored Substance Mannitol
Sirs:
I am informed that due to new regulations which proliferate by the day, that a research company now needs a DEA license to purchase mannitol, a simple sugar like glucose. And that one also needs to provide a letter of intended use for mannitol. This is (so I'm told) due to the fact that mannitol has been used by criminals to dilute illegal drugs, in a manner similar to the way that (powdered) confectioner's sugar may be used. Perhaps the intent of the new laws is force the use of powdered sugars that produce a sweeter street drug mix?
I am informed that we need to provide you with a letter of our intended use for this easily-diverted and insidious sugar. Therefore, please be informed that we do not intend to use mannitol to dilute illegal drugs, but rather intend to use it mainly to dilute legal drugs. We are a pharmaceutical research laboratory, where development of legal drugs and combinations of legal drugs, is our legitimate business. All of the drugs we have on our premises are legal, since that is what our various DEA licenses are for. Attached is a copy of our laboratory DEA license, as per your request. (As a physician, I hold a separate DEA license, as does our DVM vet.)
As for more specific uses for mannitol, we do not yet know many of the ones we will be employing, because we have not invented them yet. As for the one that we have invented already, I am sorry that it is still proprietary.
If in the future, you should need similar letters for our intended use of lactose, inositol, maltose, mannose, xylitol, fructose, sucrose, and even sodium chloride and water, any of which can be used to mix with illegal drugs, be advised that we plan to use them generally to mix with legal drugs. Perhaps this letter will serve as a general introduction to this idea for your company. If not, I can use the word-processor to alter this same letter in the future, but with a new sugar or white powder inserted in the space for "mannitol." This would be an example of how the power of the computer is being increasingly used to prosecute the war on illegal drugs, which we are (as you know) winning with the help of companies such as yourselves. I too am proud to play an integral part in this exciting and useful enterprise!
Respectfully,
Steven B. Harris, M.D. Director of Research
Uncle Al - 15 Jul 2005 03:31 GMT > To: Spectrum Chemical > 755 Jersey Avenue, New Brunswick, New Jersey 08901 [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > Steven B. Harris, M.D. > Director of Research In the future, everybody will agree with Uncle Al.
If the State is scared shitless about honest citizens arming themselves at their own expense, it should be.
 Signature Uncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
muha - 15 Jul 2005 03:50 GMT Your irate tirade will not help. Chemists in US have this problem all the time and taking it on the chemical supplier gets you nowhere. Write to your congressman.
I got a letter from Aldrich that I must contact the regulatory agency because my bottle of beta alanine contains beta alanine which is a registered enviromental polutant. Pure sand from Fisher used to be labeled as known carcinogen. Aspirin is labeled as thyro/neurotoxic toxic and benzaldehyde (almond-cherry soda flavor) as highly neurotoxic.
DEA bullshit made chloral unavailable because of its previous use as a sleep med. Chloral hemiacetal with ethanol is available, (inpure and expensive). It does not work well as a chloral chemical substitute (in isatin synth) but stil is perfectly abusable as a sleep med. Hence we all buy the the hemiacetal. (rather than asking DEA for class IV substance permit)
Benzyl chloride or thionyl chloride purchase will always triger DEA meth precursor bulshit. You have to fax letters and explain, your purchasing people will get creeps and your boss will ask you if you *realy* need these chemicals. So does purchase of methylamine in quantity of 1L of a solution.
The chemical companies would happily sell you a trainload of ephedrine or piperonylacetone without asking questions (if it was not for the regulatory requirements). They just cover their a.ses because they are vulnerable - they have to prove that they are not assisting garage chemists. So have mercy on them and instead write to people in congress (about how the overzealous drug legislature hurts your business).
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 15 Jul 2005 04:43 GMT > Your irate tirade will not help. Chemists in US have this problem all > the time and taking it on the chemical supplier gets you nowhere. Write > to your congressman. COMMENT:
Of course I will. I'm under no illusion that the letter to the supplier will do anything THERE but generate a shrug. It merely provides the starting material for protest in other venues. My congresscritters are one. Right here is another. You do what you can, with what you've got, where you are.
SBH
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 15 Jul 2005 05:04 GMT > Benzyl chloride or thionyl chloride purchase will always triger DEA > meth precursor bulshit. You have to fax letters and explain, your > purchasing people will get creeps and your boss will ask you if you > *realy* need these chemicals. So does purchase of methylamine in > quantity of 1L of a solution. I KNOW all this by experience. It's just that when it comes to *sugar,* it's finally gone WAY too far. Maybe EVEN a politician will be able to get it.
> The chemical companies would happily sell you a trainload of ephedrine > or piperonylacetone without asking questions (if it was not for the > regulatory requirements). They just cover their a.ses because they are > vulnerable - they have to prove that they are not assisting garage > chemists. So have mercy on them and instead write to people in congress > (about how the overzealous drug legislature hurts your business). Yep.
SBH
hanson - 15 Jul 2005 07:58 GMT ahahaha... AHAHAHAHA... become an environmentalist and celebrate much, much more of this type of joy.... like seen this event here:
news:1121389809.963912.113650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...>
> To: Spectrum Chemical > 755 Jersey Avenue, New Brunswick, New Jersey 08901 [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >> in congress (about how the overzealous drug legislature hurts >> your business). [SBH]
> I KNOW all this by experience. > It's just that when it comes to *sugar* it's finally gone WAY too far. > Maybe EVEN a politician will be able to get it. > Yep. "Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in news:42D72001.B2390AFF@hate.spam.net...
> > In the future, everybody will agree with Uncle Al. > > If the State is scared shitless about honest citizens > > arming themselves at their own expense, it should be. [hanson] ...ahahaha... I am sure that Al's gun toting solution to the problem won't work..... except that the "scared shitless" bureaucrats will put uncle Al Schwartz now onto their watch list .... ahahaha... AHAHA.....
I am sure that Harris and muha having had such "bad experiences" and do jump up and down, and justifiably so, ... like 100'000's other decent folks do... but, they will NOT get any relief from congress..yet...
But, here's an easy way around the problem. You gotta be pragmatic from now on. Instead of dancing to their fiddle do invest your time and purchasing efforts differently. If you need less then 10 lbs, then buy your f.cking stuff from a company aboard. It's legal and the bureaucrats won't and can't chase each and every shipment. Should they get wind of it and come to investigate you will have no problem since you are clean and honest folks and can prove a legitimate use. ********** Put the burden of the issue onto the bureaucrats ********** Most of these enforcement agencies do give a sh.t anyway. They will look at you only if you do it routinely and you process large quantities. But, if you need such large quantities then let your local or foreign supplier do ALL the paper work for you. After all YOU are the customer....
Naturally, it should NOT be that way in the first place... But, these are pathetic times we are going thru. Like SBH & muha, I too had such aggravating events happening to me. Few years back I bought 20 lbs of enviro-CHF Freon for one of the division's cooling system. Even as a routine customer at this vendor, I had to fill out forms which included lots of invasive, intrusive minutia reminiscent of questions like: "with how many sheets do you wipe your a.s?". Upon my complaints the vendor said that the order came from the DEA & EPA/Air-pollution offices and the purpose was to control the ozone hole and to prevent illegal drug cookers to use it for purifying illegal drugs. That form alone put an additional $25 charge onto the price tag on top of my 15 minutes of lost time at $xx/hr for useless bureaucratic bullshit.
The government's name of the game is always the same: (Remember government always hires f.ck-ups, people that can't find a job neither in academia nor in the private sector... hence their innate jealousy) So, therefore they first scare and f.ck all the decent people... as that lulls most of them into a purposely false sense of security and then they see what can be done about the crooks... ahahaha... I kid you not... ahaha... and here is what they do about that. I had more than one govt. inspector tell me: "Hey, listen hanson, I much rather come to inspect nice companies like yours, and report that everything is A-OK, then having to inspect some suspected drug lab and get my a.s shot at"....
Hey guys, the poor little inspector guys just do their jobs... from the govt sanctioned DHS fondlers at the airports to the more nepharious ones, the goons in/at the KZ/Abu Ghraib/Gitmo "facilities"...ahahaha... AHAHA.....
The real sad & destructive part of this is that all these social insanities and fashionable trends were initiated in the last forty years by the enviro sh.ts. Their green notions did/do cause some kind of collective induction and infection... and then such occurrences are picked up, copied and interlinked with other sick social interests which then evolve and escalate into new kinds of instabilities, which is why we see today all kinds & types of manias like eco terrorism, drug terrorism, political terrorism and homeland security paranoia. ***f.cking Enviros originated & created this sad state of today's world!***
There is a silver lining on the clouds though. We need not to go AFA uncle Al Schwartz's gun toting proposal but not far from him there are others who are beginning to voice their anger as was posted here in news:d8j4df01n0o@enews1.newsguy.com... wherein it says: ************* "f.cking greens should be shot...." **************
The pendulum is beginning to swing back...... ahahaha.... ahahaha... AHAHAHA... ahahanson
Math Freak - 15 Jul 2005 15:15 GMT > ahahaha... AHAHAHAHA... become an environmentalist and celebrate > much, much more of this type of joy.... like seen this event here: The language was similar. Times have changed. Sarcasm has seeped into communications on areas supposed to lie inside "exact sciences".
Leave things at the Americans' hands and soon you'll find you'd have to use cartoon methods to discuss your work in _their_ physics journals.
 Signature "chAghu dasteye khodesho nemiboreh."
hanson - 15 Jul 2005 17:59 GMT hanson wrote:
>> ahahaha... AHAHAHAHA... become an environmentalist and celebrate >> much, much more of this type of joy.... like seen this event here: news:z8JBe.8251$8f7.3695@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
[Mehram]
> The language was similar. Times have changed. Sarcasm > has seeped into communications on areas supposed to lie > inside "exact sciences". [hanson] ... Your "lie" must refer to "Liar" and "Lay", doesn't it?..... It's always been that way. Ideologies, be they social or scientific do always clash, because all sciences are only social enterprises in the final analysis.... ahahaha....
[Mehram]
> Leave things at the Americans' hands and soon you'll > find you'd have to use cartoon methods to discuss your > work in _their_ physics journals. [hanson] ahahaha... yeah, yeah Mehram. But your notion is not even a RELATIVely NEWTONe, pedagogically speaking, nor is it original. This has been the practice in Science mags for many decades. Pix, caption and all...... ahahaha....
[Mehram]
>"chAghu dasteye khodesho nemiboreh." [hanson] In your "prayer" here, like in all your other postscripts why does "A" only appear as capitalized. Don't tell me that it is a reflection upon "Allah"... ahahaha.... for if it is, then that sounds worse than 12-13th century Xianity. But then, your religios gag is exactly 700 years behind Xianity in its evolution. Hence your version of crusades do appear now. Only we call them today as "terrorism". Same fanaticism, same sh.t..... ahahaha... ahahaha... You just gotta love religion, no matter how stupid that is. Take care, Mehram, you _ *Arab*_, ahahaha... ahaha... ahahanson
PS: You the Persion, why is it that you take offense when being labeled as an Arab? You don't wanna be an Arab, you hate Jews and you intensely dislike Whities. So, Mehram, what makes you so special and supreme? ....Allah?.... AHAHAHAHA... hahahaha... AHAHAHA.... ahahahaha.....
Math Freak - 15 Jul 2005 21:50 GMT > why does "A" only appear as capitalized. It's hard to explain :)
 Signature "avval chAh ro bekan ba'd menAr ro bedozd."
Ron Jones - 15 Jul 2005 20:03 GMT <snip>
> DEA bullshit made chloral unavailable because of its previous use as a > sleep med. Chloral hemiacetal with ethanol is available, (inpure and > expensive). It does not work well as a chloral chemical substitute (in > isatin synth) but stil is perfectly abusable as a sleep med. Hence we > all buy the the hemiacetal. (rather than asking DEA for class IV > substance permit) We can still use choral in the UK, we don't take on *all* your daft regulations :-)
 Signature -- Ron Jones
Don't repeat history, see unreported near misses in chemical lab/plant at http://www.crhf.org.uk Only two things are certain: The universe and human stupidity; and I?m not certain about the universe. ~ Albert Einstein
Pumbaa - 16 Jul 2005 16:48 GMT > We can still use choral in the UK, we don't take on *all* your daft regulations :-)
> Ron Jones I don't think any nation has the sole ownership of daffy ideas. Here is one from your area of the pond.
"The UK has gone even further; it bans all handguns and semi-automatic (or pump-action) centerfire long-guns, and is now considering a ban on knives with points." Yet I keep reading in the press about increasing gun crime in GB, not decreasing.
You guys have to be careful with those sharp pointed objects because you could fall on them and kill yourselves. You could even kill a pig or a cow with a pointed knife. But I believe that now foxes are protected from those bad ole hunters with horses and dogs.
More stupid American laws. We Americans can't even be trusted to travel to Cuba or to even have Cuban cigars. The tobacco in them might brainwash us into being communist slaves!
Mark Thorson - 16 Jul 2005 17:08 GMT > I don't think any nation has the sole ownership of daffy ideas. Here is one > from your area of the pond. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > with points." Yet I keep reading in the press about increasing gun crime in > GB, not decreasing. But the earlier bans have been highly effective in suppressing crime involving pointed sticks, bananas, grapes, and 16-ton weights. :-)
Bob M - 16 Jul 2005 22:28 GMT As a chemist I can make any amount of sodium cyanide from wheat flour and sod bicarbonate. If I wish to make Pot cyanide I can use wood ash. Quite obviously we will soon require a permit to purchase wheat flour and fire wood.
BobM
GEM - 17 Jul 2005 18:55 GMT > As a chemist I can make any amount of sodium cyanide from wheat flour > and sod bicarbonate. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > BobM errr..... no.
If it was harmless, or nearly so, then it might be banned, but only things that are actually GOOD for people frighten the Feds into prohibition legislation anymore these days. For instance, were science to prove that drinking one's own urine was a good way to prevent diseases and avoid numerous common ailments, it would be prohibited immediately.
The days of prohibiting dangerous things are long gone, since harming the public at every opportunity is now Federal policy in the "over populated" west. It also keeps doctors and hospitals and Pharmeco's busily happy.
GEM
muha - 18 Jul 2005 00:03 GMT >For instance, were science to prove that drinking one's own urine was a good way to prevent diseases and avoid numerous common ailments, it would be prohibited immediately<
Drink another glass for me.
Hank - 19 Jul 2005 20:02 GMT > <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > We can still use choral in the UK, we don't take on *all* your daft > regulations :-) But you're just as "daft" about our wage-war-on-the-world and immigration policies and just look where it's gotten you. Enoch Powell is vindicated.
Hank
> Don't repeat history, see unreported near misses in chemical lab/plant > at http://www.crhf.org.uk > Only two things are certain: The universe and human stupidity; and I?m > not certain about the universe. ~ Albert Einstein monika hohlmeier - 15 Jul 2005 15:58 GMT It makes me so envious to see how finally you enjoy liberty in the new world, while we poor europeans still toil in slavery.
hanson - 15 Jul 2005 17:58 GMT to Harris who complained about government regulations: news:1121389809.963912.113650@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
[Hohlmeier]
> It makes me so envious to see how finally you enjoy liberty > in the new world, while we poor europeans still toil in slavery. [hanson] .... Yes, regulations are worse in Europe then they are here. So, Monika, do expand and illuminate your two liner above, else we do believe that "Hohlmeier legt Eier"... Can you or did you? hanson
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