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Medical Forum / General / Pharmacy / September 2005Pharmacist Gave Me the Wrong Medication
Hi, I have been taking Dilantin and Phenobarbital for over 20 years. I recently had my phenobarb refilled, and the phamacist said he was out of my usual brand but had another brand for me. He stressed that it was the same medication, even though it looked different, and the whole bit. Two days after taking this other 'brand' I began to feel 'strange' and altered, so I called the pharmacist back and asked him if he was sure it was the right medication. He checked and said YES, the medication was the same, but if I was still having trouble he would order my usual brand, which is Qualifest. A few more days go by and by this time I am really gone, having TOTALLY frightening sensations all over, sweating, losing weight, hyper, and by now the pill bottle SMELLED. Long story short (yeah too late I know), it turns out that the pharmacist had given me THYROID PILLS instead of phenobarbital. To say I am stunned is not even adequate. I can't believe that I was off phenobarb for nearly a week. Thank God I didn't have a seizure, but that's just it: THANK GOD. The other pharmacist said that there was no excuse for this and that they were sorry, and that disciplinary action would be taken. I felt like he was saying that just to placate me so I would not sue or something. What I want to know is how much harm may have come to my body? I was on 180 mgs of armour thyroid!!! > Hi, > To say I am stunned is not even adequate. I can't believe that I was > off phenobarb for nearly a week. Thank God I didn't have a seizure, but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > would not sue or something. What I want to know is how much harm may > have come to my body? I was on 180 mgs of armour thyroid!!! I sure hope you mean 180mcg ! > > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I sure hope you mean 180mcg ! Actually she is correct. Armour Thyroid is the ground up thyroid gland of cattle and the tablets come in 60 mg or 1 grain. The active ingredient of thyroid is concentrated in Synthroid (levo-thyroxin) so that 100 mcg (0.1 mg) of Synthroid = 60 mg. of Armour Thyroid. I thought all the doctors had given up using Armour Thyroid and now used Synthroid (Synthetic Thyroid) or a generic type of it. The recommendation for treating hypothyroidism is to use a synthetic thyroid preparation. How the Pharmacist confused Armour Thyroid with Phenobarbital is a good question. Sometimes the workload at some stores is so great that the pharmacist does not take the time to double check his or her work. If you take the time needed to do a good job then management will discipline you. They want the work done and they are not too concerned how it gets done. If ALL medication were dispensed in their original factory containers, which are correctly labeled in the factory.some errors (like yours) would be prevented. You could have checked the manufacturers' label and seen for yourself that the medication was thyroid and that the pharmacist had made a mistake. However both the pharmacy and the drug manufacturer save money by selling drugs in big bottles and having the pharmacist repackage them. >You could have checked the manufacturers' label and seen for > yourself that the medication was thyroid and that the pharmacist had made a > mistake. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah RIGHT. The pharmacist even put a special green sticker on the bottle, stating clearly and unequivocally that even though the medication may differ in size and color, it is the SAME medication. > Actually she is correct. Armour Thyroid is the ground up thyroid gland of > cattle and the tablets come in 60 mg or 1 grain. The active ingredient of > thyroid is concentrated in Synthroid (levo-thyroxin) so that 100 mcg (0.1 > mg) of Synthroid = 60 mg. of Armour Thyroid. Thanks for that. I've never seen that used in 15 years in the UK. Must be a US preparation? > > Actually she is correct. Armour Thyroid is the ground up thyroid gland of > > cattle and the tablets come in 60 mg or 1 grain. The active ingredient of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Thanks for that. I've never seen that used in 15 years in the UK. Must be a > US preparation? Yes, it was probably the original mother of all thyroid preparations. I never saw much use of it either even thirty years ago. Since the USA doesn't have any sort of national formulary or drug list, medicine being mostly free enterprise with a large help of socialized payments added, products remain available as long as they sell unless recalled for safety reasons. Armour must still sell enough thyroid in America to justify making the old fashioned tablets and old fashioned doctors still will prescribe it. How does the drug system work in the UK? Does a drug company have to apply to have their new products covered by the national health care system? Does the new product have to demonstrate a significant improvement over existing drugs before it is added? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pumbaa" <pinkertonjames@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: sci.med.pharmacy Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 8:47 PM Subject: Re: Pharmacist Gave Me the Wrong Medication > How does the drug system work in the UK? Does a drug company have to > apply [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > existing > drugs before it is added? No, in the UK the drug companies don't have to apply to have their products covered. If a product is licensed then a doctor can prescribe it, I can dispense it, and the national health service reimburses me. A few things are blacklisted, but not many- we too have 100s of "me-toos", patent-extending stereoisomers and formulations, etc. New drugs don't have to show any advantages over older ones to be licensed. Fewer than 10% of people pay anything for their drugs here in the UK. If they do pay anything then it's a fixed fee of about $12 per item. That's the same amount whether it's a $1 generic or $10k of EPO. I've holidayed in the USA many times and I still cannot work out how your system works...:) >> > Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Actually she is correct. Armour Thyroid is the ground up thyroid gland of >cattle When did they start using cattle thyroid. They previously used porcine thyroid. Ora > >> > Hi, > >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Ora I may well be incorrect with my statement about cattle thyroid. I did not look it up before posting. I would have thought that cattle being larger than swine (and kosher also) would be the logical animal to use for thyroid. But as it is said, nothing is wasted of the hog but the squeal! >> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:41:32 -0500, "Pumbaa" <pinkertonjames@hotmail.com> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >than swine (and kosher also) would be the logical animal to use for thyroid. >But as it is said, nothing is wasted of the hog but the squeal! You were also wrong about your reference to 180 mcg vs 180 mg. Maybe you should look up things before you post about such things. Ora <Snip> > You were also wrong about your reference to 180 mcg vs 180 mg. Maybe you should > look up things before you post about such things. > > Ora What reference are you referring to? I said, "The active ingredient of thyroid is concentrated in Synthroid (levo-thyroxin) so that 100 mcg (0.1 mg) of Synthroid = 60 mg. of Armour Thyroid." Where did I state that 180 mcg is equal to 180 mg? RWP and Tazzy_Gal were the people that mentioned that reference. ><Snip> >> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 14:34:02 -0500, "Pumbaa" <pinkertonjames@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Where did I state that 180 mcg is equal to 180 mg? RWP and Tazzy_Gal were >the people that mentioned that reference. You're right - I apologize. It was RWP. Usually I check to see who originally posted a reference but I missed it this time. Ora Ora, I thought this bit of information was interesting: BTW, looking on the internet it seems that Armour Thyroid has a following among people who want "natural" drugs. Some people believe it may be better than Synthroid? The company even has a database of doctors that prescribe it so a person can go to a doctor that is on their approved list. "From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris) Subject: Re: Armour Thyroid Therapy: Detoxifying properties? Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative In <876724103.37402@wagasa.cts.com> nexus@king.cts.com (Alan Pollock) writes: >Is Armour thyroid what Proloid used to be before its production was >stopped (due to insufficient demand, I believe)? Nex Dunno, but I doubt it. Armour thyroid extract has been around for a LONG time. It's one of the originals. It's the same Armour that makes hotdogs, you know. Trimming pork is an art, and if you don't get the thyroid out of the neck muscle trimmings, people who eat them get VERY sick (there have been epidemics of hyperthyroidism caused by incompetent butchers making thyroid-containing hamburger). Armour ends up with a lot of thyroid tissue as a byproduct of meatpacking, and it turns it into extract, and has for a long time. There's nothing wrong with the product, but it's sort of outdated by now and a little bit silly. Why subject your body to fixed doses of the two thyroid hormones T4 and T3? They almost certainly are not going to be what your body would make on its own-- for if you get one right, the other is going to be wrong. Better to supply only T4 and let your bod decide how much T3 to make. That's what you do with the synthetics, which are T4. (There's a synthetic T3, but it's used for other purposes). Steve Harris, M.D."My wife and I raised two pigs a couple of years ago. My butcher must have known what he was doingas the bacon and sausage was delcious and I did not suffer from hyperthyroidism. >Ora, I thought this bit of information was interesting: BTW, looking on >the internet it seems that Armour Thyroid has a following among people who >want "natural" drugs. Some people believe it may be better than Synthroid? >The company even has a database of doctors that prescribe it so a person can >go to a doctor that is on their approved list. Interesting? It is rather strange in that the author talks about trimming pork then speeds to hamburger which is not made from pork. I wonder if the author is a shill for the synthroid industry. I have been using Armour thyroid for decades and it is still my choice even after trying the others for a period of time. Ora >"From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris) >Subject: Re: Armour Thyroid Therapy: Detoxifying properties? [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >was doingas the bacon and sausage was delcious and I did not suffer from >hyperthyroidism. > Interesting? It is rather strange in that the author talks about trimming pork > then speeds to hamburger which is not made from pork. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Ora I have often wondered exactly what is in the hamburger that is prepackaged since I can't see them grind up the meat. Perhaps the butcher had some left over pork and he added it to the beef. Deer meat in my area is often mixed with some pork to make a better (fattier) sausage. Plain deer meat is so low in natural fat that is tends to be very dry. If Armour thyroid works for you then I would not switch either. >> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 16:22:19 -0500, "Pumbaa" <pinkertonjames@hotmail.com> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >in natural fat that is tends to be very dry. If Armour thyroid works for you >then I would not switch either. Pork is not to be mixed with beef. Pork needs to be thoroughly cooked before eating it and cannot legally be used in hamburger. However we don't know really what else is in hamburger. But I feel confident that there is no pork mixed in. On the other hand, perhaps it is legal to mix other stuff with pork sausage because since it definitely contains pork, it would be cooked properly hopefully. Many people mix sausage with their turkey stuffing but I could never understand why. My stuffing is safe to eat without cooking it and I taste it copiously while preparing it. Ora Sixteen Posts and not ONE DEALT with my original question!!! Don't worry, I'm not suing the pharmacy, I just wanted to know if any harm could have been done to me by this medication. Thanks for not answering, except to chat to each other about the differences between countries medical systems, speculation if I had posted the amount correctly, etc. ad nauseum. I'm SO GLAD I could provide a forum for you!!! >Sixteen Posts and not ONE DEALT with my original question!!! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >correctly, etc. ad nauseum. I'm SO GLAD I could provide a forum for >you!!! Obviously no one knows the answer to your question. Sorry about that. I take Armour thyroid 180 mg. daily and it has never caused me to have any of your symptoms. I am not going to double the dose to see what happens. Maybe your symptoms were the combination result of not taking phenobarbitol and instead taking the thyroid. Armour thyroid does not give immediate results - it takes several days for it to kick in. You should ask those questions from a pharmacist who is more likely to know the answer. Ora Sixteen Posts and not ONE DEALT with my original question!!! Don't worry, I'm not suing the pharmacy, I just wanted to know if any harm could have been done to me by this medication. Thanks for not answering, except to chat to each other about the differences between countries medical systems, speculation if I had posted the amount correctly, etc. ad nauseum. I'm SO GLAD I could provide a forum for you!!! > Sixteen Posts and not ONE DEALT with my original question!!! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > correctly, etc. ad nauseum. I'm SO GLAD I could provide a forum for > you!!! I am a Pharmacist, not a physician. I don't know the general state of your health and your medical conditions. I would say, for what it is worth, that if your health is generally OK that you probably suffered no lasting harm from the short term exposure to the thyroid. If you still feel sick or the symptoms reoccur, then see your doctor for an exam. If it was me that it happened to, I would not spend much time worrying about it. You do have a point about us not answering your question. Your personal pharmacist would be in a better position to answer your question as he may know more about you. >><Snip> >>> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 14:34:02 -0500, "Pumbaa" [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>> >>> Ora Yes, that was me. I was aware, from some 1950s textbooks, that Thyroid was used from natural sources. I was not aware that these preparations were still available. Frankly I iwas amazed, apologies. >> > Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > take the time needed to do a good job then management will discipline you. > They want the work done and they are not too concerned how it gets done. My Pharmacist here in the UK is absolutely fantastic. He verbally double checks all the meds before the customer gets their hands on them. I joke with him that he suffers with OCD! Never made a mistake with me though they did manage to get my fathers tegretol retrard confused with ordinary tegretol. Manafactures fault though same coloured box. I tell you I wouldn't want the responsiblity of packaging up hundreds of medicines each day knowing that just one mistake is taken very seriously indeed. Perhaps the patient / customer should have read the package insert before taking their meds, they have a responsibility to themselves too. Andy. I would also say THANK GOD that you are OK and did not have a seizure. . That pharmacist should have double checked especially after you questioned it. In our store we always compare the NDC number, which identifies the drug (on the patient's prescription label), with the NDC number from the container from which the medication is dispensed. I would also recommend that if any medication looks different from previous fill look up the identity on the internet (such as www.drugs.com ) You can look up the identification of the tablet or capsule by the color, shape, numbers or letters which appear on the medication. Mistakes can and do happen, so I would not take anything that looks different until you double check the identity. ok so they gave you the wrong medication. No harm no foul. I feel you should be compensated a fair amount for your week of inconvenience but you should also not be unjustly enriched by the pharmacy mistake. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > would not sue or something. What I want to know is how much harm may > have come to my body? I was on 180 mgs of armour thyroid!!! My personal experience is that unless you are well-heeled and your family can afford an specialty lawyer, you might count yourself lucky that there has not been any more serious harm. I had a serious, almost lethal drug mishap a couple of months ago. I did my duty and reported it to all parties concerned - doctor, government ADR files, and pharmacies. Nobody made a fuss about it; infact some may not even have believed it. That reaction to ADRs is significant. It means that if you create a fuss without legal, family and medical support, you will lose even more than you already have. Sorry to sound cynical, but that is just my opinion. It is best to educate yourself and encourage the cooperation of your doctor. Caveat emptor. Squiggles > My personal experience is that unless you are > well-heeled and your family can afford an [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Squiggles Hello, A lawyer once told me that most of the lawyers in that line of work will not file a medical lawsuit unless the client had a major injury that kept him or her from working for many years. If there is only minor damage--the lawyer would not take the case to court. In other words--they want to make lots of money from each case they take to court. Jason  SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. Tazzy Gal, I am sorry to hear about your experience. As a pharmaceutical scientist, I realize these unfortunate things happen. I wonder why you did not question the color of the phenobarbital vs. the color of Armour thyroid tablets. Phenobarbital is almost always a white tablet, whereas Armour thyroid is colored by the thyroid extract. In the future, always check all new prescriptions and renewals. Lots of mistakes occur, and you always need to "expect the unexpected." Good luck. Best wishes, fountainhead22 > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > would not sue or something. What I want to know is how much harm may > have come to my body? I was on 180 mgs of armour thyroid!!! |
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