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Medical Forum / General / Pharmacy / February 2005

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patient counseling

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Paul Trusten - 11 Feb 2005 17:50 GMT
Back in the 1990s, the Massachusetts Board of Pharmacy conducted a sting
operation on patient counseling. It sent people out, each with two new,
valid prescriptions: one for Nardil (an MAO inhibitor) and another for a
product containing pseudoephedrine. Of the pharmacies visited, only 35%
intervened in any way.

Counseling patients on MAO inhibitor cautions is a classic call for
pharmacist action. We didn't need OBRA90, patient counseling laws, or the
concept of pharmaceutical care to move  us do this in the days prior to that
philsophy. We just did it because, as pharmacists, we knew it needed to be
done. This was also true of a number of other matters, such as warning
patients of the staining properties of Pyridium (phenazopyridine) or the
interaction between alcohol and Flagyl (Flagyl can act like Antabuse and
make one sick if alcohol is taken along with it).  In my days as a community
pharmacist, I would never let a patient (or the patient's relative or
friend) leave without getting this information personally from me. Yes,
there's time to do it. It takes seconds.

In my experience as a prescription patient myself, I have, since the
inception of counseling requirements in January 1993, been counseled only
two or three times on new prescriptions.  In fact, for the past ten years, I
have almost never spoken to the pharmacist. He or she is super-glued to the
cathode ray tube. I just don't think counseling is being done, so I wonder
how effective the rules are. But, as I predicted, they are not being
enforced by boards of pharmacy as effectively as they are being enforced by
judges and juries.
Bob G. - 11 Feb 2005 20:49 GMT
. I just don't think counseling is being done, so I wonder
>how effective the rules are. But, as I predicted, they are not being
>enforced by boards of pharmacy as effectively as they are being enforced by
>judges and juries.

==================
I am a retired Pharmacist....and I may be wrong (nothing new) BUT I
believe the only "rule" is that someone in the Pharamcy has to ask the
patient IF they wish to recieve it....  

Bob G.
halo2 guy - 12 Feb 2005 07:15 GMT
In Washington State I am pretty sure that a counsel has to be available.
For example many times I deliver new medications and there is no counsel at
the time of delivery and if the patient wants one they have to call the
pharmacy to get one.

>. I just don't think counseling is being done, so I wonder
>>how effective the rules are. But, as I predicted, they are not being
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Bob G.
warenda@email.com - 14 Feb 2005 13:43 GMT
I just demand that every new prescription in our pharmacy gets counselling.
We have a semiprivate booth and it works great.
Any pharmacist that does not counsel on at least every new rx is not
performing up to the standards.
Yes our pharmacy is busy.
Yes but that's what techs are for...to do the busy work so we can counsel.
jp rpj
Bob G. - 14 Feb 2005 15:00 GMT
>I just demand that every new prescription in our pharmacy gets counselling.
>We have a semiprivate booth and it works great.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Yes but that's what techs are for...to do the busy work so we can counsel.
>jp rpj
===============
While I do feel that this is a great practice I honestly have to say
that I think you are kidding yourself.....  

Enon 101 taugh me a few things ...

Just my "jaded" opinion    

Bob G.
Gregory Poon - 14 Feb 2005 16:31 GMT
Things are probably different in different jurisdiction, but at least here
in Ontario, counselling on new prescriptions is mandated, and must be
documented.  It's quite "doable", and if done well, can be very good for
business.  I'm sure Canada isn't be the only place where this is done.

> >I just demand that every new prescription in our pharmacy gets counselling.
> >We have a semiprivate booth and it works great.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Bob G.
warenda@email.com - 14 Feb 2005 21:13 GMT
I agree!
I can be done and is being done.  It is just how we practice at my pharmacy
and I demand it of every pharmacist that works for me.
Maybe that's why the new CVS right down the street hasn't affected my RX
business at all.
jp rph
Pumbaa - 15 Feb 2005 14:03 GMT
"Documented" in the State of Mississippi means I initial a little sticker
and the pharmacist sticks it into a notebook!  What does documentation
involved in Ontario?

> Things are probably different in different jurisdiction, but at least here
> in Ontario, counselling on new prescriptions is mandated, and must be
> documented.  It's quite "doable", and if done well, can be very good for
> business.  I'm sure Canada isn't be the only place where this is done.
Gregory Poon - 15 Feb 2005 18:15 GMT
Well the bare minimum isn't much more than what you are doing, but if you're
giving out a prescription for Biaxin and the patient is taking warfarin
it'll probably be in your interest to do something more than just checking a
box.

> "Documented" in the State of Mississippi means I initial a little sticker
> and the pharmacist sticks it into a notebook!  What does documentation
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> > documented.  It's quite "doable", and if done well, can be very good for
> > business.  I'm sure Canada isn't be the only place where this is done.
 
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