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Medical Forum / General / Pharmacy / November 2004Trazodone and Abilify.
Hi, My situation is complex. I'll sum up quickly and ask a few questions and leave a more detailed post for later. Last week I went to see a psychiatrist. I am recovering from a situation where health problems overwhelmed me and the recession hit at the same time. Now I live on the generosity of my family and the state medical facilities. My recovery seems to be two steps forward, one and a half step back. I basically had three complaints. 1) I had no trouble falling asleep, but I had trouble *going* to sleep. It seemed like I am always saying "I'll go to bed in five minutes", till it is 5am. As a result sometimes I went to bed at 11:pm other times I went to bed at 2am other times 5am etc. I also suffer from sleep apnea ( mild, only on my back ). The doctors decided to put CPAP on hold until I reset my schedule. 2) I have trouble thinking. It seems like problems that I could solve in five minutes before, take me hours or even days now. For example, I started the original of this post a week ago, 3) I have trouble completing tasks. For example, I used to program for a living. I have problems taking parts of a program and stringing them together to make a single program. At some point I just put it aside and don't get back to it. During the session, the doctor prescribed a couple of medications for me. One was Abilify, another was Trazodone. At this point I haven't started taking them, because I want my doc to clear them. He sent me an email, but there was some confusion. So I sent him a request for clarification. In the meantime... When I got home, I realized that she didn't give me a diagnosis. I have virtually no idea why I am taking the drugs. ( She did briefly mention the Trazodone was for sleep. ) Now I have several questions about these drugs. The first question is the most important. Are their effects reversible? I am not going to make money with my body ie physical labor. I am not going to make money with my personality ie sales. Whatever I am going to do for a living, it is going to be with my mind. My mind is the best part of me. It is responsible for the good things that happened to me. It is responsible for the bad things. That makes me want to be very, very careful of what I do to it. The second question is: what kind of effect will they have on me. In terms of what I do, I am not good at routine tasks ( like an accountant adding columns of figures before calculators/computers ), what I excel at is doing intricate tasks that others often don't even know how to tackle. This involves thoughts that sort of arrange themselves in intricate webs, with some sort of gestalt perspective on the thought structures. I am nervous that the drugs may topple that all over. The third question is probably silly but I think I have to ask. If the trazodone is for sleep, is it possible that I have an apnea event and the drug keeps me asleep, killing me ( I can't wake up to breathe. ) Hey, I have to be careful. The shrink didn't take a history. Finally, what are these drugs supposed to treat. Thanks. I accidentally sent the original draft, I was to late stopping it, but did immediately cancel it. It looks like it worked, but in case it didn't please ignore it. ( The original has many, many footnotes ). Those are both sort of antipsychotics/anticonvulsants/sedatives. Sorry I don't know those well. Basically for bipolar/schitzophrenia it's some kind of overfocusing going on in your head so those meds tune down the volume to calm down an overimaginative brain & yes I think they probably would dull your thinking some. Then you could get some ADD meds to turn the volume up again when the voices go away. From what I understand you've always been kind of ADHD but losing your job got you depressed, now you can't even think straight & things being so chaotic, you are going a bit nutty now. Stimulants for ADHD can definitely make those nutty symptoms worse and you might need something like those meds in combination with the ritalin or whatever. It's kind of scary but suicide isn't a good option either, I'd rather be a bit drugged than dead any day! You were OK before so you ought to be able to get back there with some help. Your doc is wrong that ADD folks can't get advanced degrees. Try searching then posting at this site: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/#post I think you'll get the best advice on the psych meds there. > I accidentally sent the original draft, I was to late stopping it, but > did immediately cancel it. It looks like it worked, but in case it > didn't please ignore it. ( The original has many, many footnotes ). In sci.med.pharmacy paul <paul@not.net> wrote: : Those are both sort of antipsychotics/anticonvulsants/sedatives. Sorry I : don't know those well. Basically for bipolar/schitzophrenia it's some : kind of overfocusing going on in your head so those meds tune down the : volume to calm down an overimaginative brain & yes I think they probably : would dull your thinking some. Then you could get some ADD meds to turn : the volume up again when the voices go away. : From what I understand you've always been kind of ADHD but losing your : job got you depressed, now you can't even think straight & things being [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : get back there with some help. Your doc is wrong that ADD folks can't : get advanced degrees. Tell that to Dr. Hallowell and Dr. Ratey at Harvard. They have ADD. Some doctors are so misinformed, it is not funny. Emma >In sci.med.pharmacy paul <paul@not.net> wrote: >: Those are both sort of antipsychotics/anticonvulsants/sedatives. Sorry I [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Emma Paul, I know a little from personal experience: --Trazadone is a tricyclic antidepressant. Today I understand it is often prescribed as, essentially, a sleeping pill. I too have trouble going to sleep, and 50 mg of it a night it has helped me a lot to do so. --My trouble going to sleep is in large part because I don't WANT to go to sleep. I know each night that when I wake up, I have nothing to look forward to but going to a boring, low-paying job that is the best I can get, given my depression and anxiety problems. I am much smarter than the job requires, but, not, alas, more functional, so every day is a day of acute boredom. The way you described how you keep putting off going to bed sounds very familiar, and is understandable since your day-time life doesn't sound any more inviting than mine. --Abilify is one of the "new" drugs for schizophrenia. I was given it experimentally while I was disabled for depression and anxiety and the side-effects of fatigue, confusion, and internal tremulousness were awful. I forgot whether you already started it. If you have, be diligent in reporting side effects to your doctor. --Americans are trained to work until we drop. Compared to Europeans, even Japanese, we work many more days a year. While you're unemployed, therefore, I suspect you are going to have self-esteem problems that will affect you in numerous unexpected ways. I noticed the low self-esteem at the very beginning of your first post, when you spoke deprecatingly of your living arrangement. When you start to think ill of yourself for being unemployed, I suggest you try to remember that it is not your fault, and, even if it were, you are not valuable merely to the extent that you are an economic success. If such self-talk is to have any effect, you will have to remember to repeat it to yourself often. --You seem (judging from the tone of your post) to be a somewhat obsessive thinker, like me. I have been helped to combat the adverse effects of that tendency by cognitive-behavioral therapy. I recommend it. Good luck, Leonard  Signature"Everything that rises must converge" --Flannery O'Connor > I don't WANT to go > to sleep. I know each night that when I wake up, I have nothing to look > forward to but going to a boring, low-paying job that is the best I can > get, given my depression and anxiety problems. You must be a Pharmacist... Ruben Safir RPh >--Trazadone is a tricyclic antidepressant. Today I understand it is >often prescribed as, essentially, a sleeping pill. I too have trouble >going to sleep, and 50 mg of it a night it has helped me a lot to do so. I'm sorry. It wasn't Paul that asked the original question, it was me. I guess citations etc have caused some confusion. My questions are mainly about about Abilify and those about Trazadone are almost the same as those about Abilify. The two main ones that aren't are the same: 1) I have apnea but am not yet on CPAP. Put simply, if I stop breathing in the middle of the night, will I stay asleep because of the Trazadone? 2) I ( generally ) don't have trouble falling asleep. I have trouble going to bed. Do I really need Trazadone? 3) Overall, the antidepressant effects might be good for me. But I an concerned with the way they might affect my thinking. If I stop taking it will whatever effects it has wearoff. To me this is important, my intellect is the best part of me and I don't want people messing with it if they are unable to do whatever they've done. >--My trouble going to sleep is in large part because I don't WANT to go >to sleep. I know each night that when I wake up, I have nothing to look [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >to bed sounds very familiar, and is understandable since your day-time >life doesn't sound any more inviting than mine. Hmm. My situation is different. I cannot do physical work, and I will never be able to do that sort of thing. So I'm left with jobs that require me to use my intellect. Unfortunately with my brains scrambled that isn't possible. >--Abilify is one of the "new" drugs for schizophrenia. I was given it >experimentally while I was disabled for depression and anxiety and the >side-effects of fatigue, confusion, and internal tremulousness were >awful. I forgot whether you already started it. If you have, be diligent >in reporting side effects to your doctor. To me that is very strange. I have a long list of things that I think are wrong with me. Very mild schizophrenia was on that list, but I only put it on because occasional I get disoriented in a weird way which may be a sign of schizophrenia ( but probably not ). But I didn't get a chance to mention the disorientation to the doctor. Again are it's effects reversible? >--Americans are trained to work until we drop. Compared to Europeans, >even Japanese, we work many more days a year. While you're unemployed, >therefore, I suspect you are going to have self-esteem problems that >will affect you in numerous unexpected ways. I'm a programmer by trade. I enjoy the programming part, but there are a lot of things I have to put up with as a programmer. It's a proffesion which used to be considered desirable. So it attracted a lot of people who would rather lie and cheat than work for a living. ( If I had a dollar for everytime some manager or programmer has said to me "Who cares what the user wants." ...) When I am unemployed it's because I insisted on doing a good job. In the past, while I was unemployed, I simply programmed for myself. I knew there were other jobs I could get. Now, with outsourcing. Let me explain. Fifteen years ago there was a small but vocal minority of programmers who were screaming that outsourcing was going to hurt programming badly. Most people poo-pooed them ( including me, not because I didn't think they had a point, but because I thought they were too rabid about it ). Now the programming industry is in tatters, and the rest of the country is starting to go through what we went through the last fifteen years. I don't know if there are other jobs. I don't know if I can retrain to do something else. I don't know that by the time I finish retraining that something else wont be outsourced, the things that I would be good at are the most likely condidates for outsourcing. >I noticed the low >self-esteem at the very beginning of your first post, when you spoke >deprecatingly of your living arrangement. I don't think I have low-self esteem. My present living arrangements, well they suck, that's not an opinion thats a fact, but I'm even bothered so much by that. I am however heavily despondent over the fact that my present living arrangements ( or worse ) will be the rest of my life. >When you start to think ill of >yourself for being unemployed, I suggest you try to remember that it is >not your fault, and, even if it were, you are not valuable merely to the >extent that you are an economic success. No, but being an economic failure means I can't enjoy myself all that much. When my economic woes started, I had four walkmans. I liked to go for walks listening to "talk radio" ( sometimes politcal, but often things like "what were your favorite candy"), music ( less often now, I don't like modern rock ), or sports. Now I'm down to my last walkman, and that one is breaking. Takes the fun out of going for a walk. >If such self-talk is to have >any effect, you will have to remember to repeat it to yourself often. >--You seem (judging from the tone of your post) to be a somewhat >obsessive thinker, like me. It's not clear to me what you mean by obsessive thinker. I think we have a lot in common. We are both smart and both have something preventing us from using our intelligence. But I also think there are differences. You suffer from depression and anxiety, whereas the most likely things I may be suffering from are depression and receeding manic-depression ( where I adjusted to it well and used it to my advantage, and now I am having trouble achieving and maintaining a manic state ). > I have been helped to combat the adverse >effects of that tendency by cognitive-behavioral therapy. I recommend it. >Your doc is wrong that ADD folks can't >: get advanced degrees. > >Tell that to Dr. Hallowell and Dr. Ratey at Harvard. They have ADD. > >Some doctors are so misinformed, it is not funny. Can you provide more details. My doctor claims that because I earned an advanced degree and have never been diagnosed as having ADD ( though I don't think anyone ever looked ), I don't have ADD. Were they diagnosed before University or after? Can one succeed in an intellectual enterprise, despite having ADD and not knowing it? Your post has had me up in the air. On the one hand it says some things that give me some insight. On the other instead of replying to my original post, you reply to a post I tell you I sent by accident, that I thought I had cancelled successfully. One that was essentially a rough first draft poorly formated, with poor grammar, with poor spelling and not conveying what I wanted to say very well. Despite that, I thought it did convey some things well enough ( like the "I hear voices part" ) but it seems you didn't bother to read it carefully enough to understand those parts, since you seem to have gotten some things very wrong. I'll start off by saying I tend to be ... extremely anal. Or pedantic. For example a conversation I had with a doctor ( taking a history ) a long time ago: Doctor: Did you ever have diarrhea? Me: Yes. Doctor: How bad? When? Me: I don't know. Doctor: But you did have diarrhea? Me: Yeah. Hasn't everyone? At some point I figure out that the doctor is talking about about some sort of serious problem with diarrhea, but when he asked I took the question literally. When I spoke to the attending, she kept tuning out a third of the way through my answers. Sometimes she cut me off. Which I believe gave her a bad perspective, because many times an answer had several components. For example, there were three periods of my life which caused me to become overweight. Each had it's own effect. I only got to describe the first event, which was the least significant. She asked if I heard voices. I said "yes". I've asked other people about this. I hear something for a second every few months. It's memorable because for a moment I wonder if I'm not going wonky. I've asked friends who are perfectly normal, the same thing happens to them. It's when it happens a lot that you need to worry. She only heard the "yes". She asked if I wanted to hurt people. I said yes. Every person feels like they want to hurt someone at one time or another. Examples would be: the stupid bitches that stand behind me in checkout lines and ram their shopping carts into the back of my legs, cars that make right turns around busses, people that cut through several lanes of traffic in one fell swoop to exit from the fast lane. Trucks with loose things ( paper, glass, garbage) on their trucks on a highway. Fat old ladies who get on the escalator, stand side by side so you can't pass, during rush hour, when your train is coming. At intersections I see a guy making a right turn, but waiting for pedestrians to pass. I also see the guy behind him wailing oh his horn because the guy is waiting. I pray that God sets aside a special place in hell for those guys. Think the Milkado's "little list". But she didn't hear the circumstances, only that I want to hurt people. It seems like much of the time she didn't listen, which concerns me. Especially since she never gave me a diagnosis just a prescription. Especially when it seems like she is prescribing something for schizophrenia when I don't think the information she had justified that diagnosis. >Those are both sort of antipsychotics/anticonvulsants/sedatives. Sorry I >don't know those well. Basically for bipolar/schitzophrenia it's some >kind of overfocusing going on in your head so those meds tune down the >volume to calm down an overimaginative brain & yes I think they probably >would dull your thinking some. Then you could get some ADD meds to turn >the volume up again when the voices go away OK. The part where the meds dull my thinking worries me a lot. Unless they can guarantee that whatever happens can be undone I don't want any part of it. I've lost enough intelligence as it is. You seem to be suggesting that the doctors game plan is to treat me as if I was bipolar, then afterwards bring me back with ADD meds. Sounds kind of scary, expecially since she hasn't given me a diagnosis. It seems that I should know what her game plan is before I start meds. I had mild manic/depression on my list, but it was close to the bottom. Several years ago I was talking to a friend who a background in psychiatry, he said I was "hyper" which he descibed as a mild form of mainc-depressive ( he said it was a neurosis not a psychosis ). He also said that most creative people were neurotic in this way. > From what I understand you've always been kind of ADHD No. I've never been diagnosed as ADHD. What I said was that a previous psychiatrist threw it out briefly in our last meeting. That got me to thinking, and it might be possible that I had ADHD without knowing it. I was doing things ( like meditating ) which could be interpreted as non pharmecutical self-treatment ( OTOH, it might not have been ). I also have not lived up to my potential. When i look back at my life it seems that things have been happening which have derailed me and set me back. For example, I failed my qualifying exams by one half point on the written part ( out of 100 pts ) and by one half point on the oral part ( out of 10 ). The summer before, a proffessor asked me to write him a program and I got hooked on that, instead of studying ( despite the fact that I finished and had two more months to study ). So I got set back a year. >but losing your >job got you depressed, Huh. If I'm depressed, it's not because I lost my job. When I lose my job, it's usually because I told someone to f.ck off. ( Sorry for the language. ) [3] >now you can't even think straight & things being >so chaotic, you are going a bit nutty now. I won't deny being nutty. I trained as a physicist and work as a programmer, that inself is a double shot of nutty. But I doubt that's what you mean. As for thinking straight, there are times when I get confused and can't think of the things I want to do or which one I want to do next. That might be a problem, but that is a minor consideration compared to my main one which is not "not thinking straight", but rather not thinking long. Since I made my first post, I have come up with a better description. It seems like when I try to solve subproblems I have lost 20-30 points off my IQ ( this is a characterization, not something based on explicit tests ), and have a hard time focus ing on the problem. When I solve the subproblems, I have trouble stringing their solutions together into a solution of the whole problem. > Stimulants for ADHD can >definitely make those nutty symptoms worse and you might need something >like those meds in combination with the ritalin or whatever. Since I'm not taking anything for ADHD, it seems irrelevant. > It's kind >of scary but suicide isn't a good option either, I'd rather be a bit >drugged than dead any day! A little drugged? Not counting the Abilify and the Trazodone, I take 12 pills a day. I have to worry about things like amputation or dialysis or blindness, not as some abstract things that might happen in a few years, but as something that might happen next month. I can't read the books that I used to ( no longer smart enough ). Many of the ways I have of enjoying myself are cut off because I don't have any money [1], others I don't have because I am not physically able to have them [2]. The fact is that I live in two worlds. One foot is in the world I used to live in. Where I made a good but not great living, and could do things like eating out and going to movies and buying a book or CD. Living in relative mental and physical health and modest comfort. The other foot is in a world where I live off the generousity of others, I live in pain and rapidly degenerating health. Where I can't get out or do most of the things that I used to enjoy. I don't expect to get back to where I was before. Age means that I will have lost a step. But it would be nice to get close to my old form. I have many old debts and it I were to get back on my feet tomorrow I would only have 20 years before retirement. Just barely enough time to make myself comfortable in old age. In other words, I am digging myself a hole that is very very hard to get out of. I've given myself untill January 2006. That's more than a year. If I can not show significant progress getting back to the world I used to live in by then, then I don't think I ever will. I'm too old to expect to make a recovery if it takes longer than that. If at that point, I am living through the day so that I can live the next day, just sinker deeper and deeper into the abyss, then I will kill myself. I don't see it as suicide, I see it as an extended DNR. >You were OK before so you ought to be able to >get back there with some help. Yes, but can I get there with the help that is open to me? >Your doc is wrong that ADD folks can't >get advanced degrees. > >Try searching then posting at this site: >http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/#post I think you'll get the best advice on >the psych meds there. I checked it out, I'll check it out some more. >> I accidentally sent the original draft, I was to late stopping it, but >> did immediately cancel it. It looks like it worked, but in case it >> didn't please ignore it. ( The original has many, many footnotes ). [1] For example, when I worked, I used to go out Friday evenings. I would go to a "middle level" restaurant ( ie Benegan's, Giordano's Chilli's, Outback Steak House something where you pay $15-$25 per person ). Then I would walk through some nearby stores/malls. Then I would go to a bookstore ( Borders type ) and spend a couple hours perusing the shelf. Now I can't afford the restaurant. I can't afford the bus fare to get to the mall/bookstores. There is one of the smaller branches within walking distance for most people. I get tired quickly and don't often walk there. [2] In the past I would go to various places, forest preserves, beaches to bike. Nowadays I'm physically exhausted when I get there. [3] In one case, I was convinced to go to work at a place because two friends I worked with before would work there. We would once again "ride together". The place was a dotcom and TPTB needed to be made aware of somethings. I struggled hard to get my friends to join me in telling them, but they wouldn't. Instead they worked hard to milk the company for all it had. In the end I worked very hard to make the company a success, while my friends left me holding the bag. The company went under. TPTB didn't blame me but I felt guilty and very depresses that people I felt I could rely on had laid down on the job. I took off a few months to get over it. By that time the job market had crashed. Twenty pages of want ads shrunk to one column. Then 9/11 when the job market was starting to recover. Hey Thad, there is plenty of hope for you. I didn'r know you were on a bazillion pills and suffering physical ailments. I would definitely try some psych meds along with talk therapy, it can really help. You be the judge though, if it feels wrong, no need to continue & I don't think the side effects are permanent. It just doesn't make sense to opt out when there are possibilities out there. It sounds you ar a smart son of a bitch and will not be turned into a moron from a few psych meds permanently. I doubt it could get worse than what you describe now, given some effort. I don't see you as particularly psychotic. I'm not suicidal either but I've had involuntary thoughts about cutting myself which were pretty suprising, in retrospect. It all happens for a reason I think and that reason is to get your a.s in gear to overcome one way or another. Best regards PS I was listening to some Cat Stevens & he had a song about being afraid to go to sleep & never wake up & thought of you. > Hi, > My situation is complex. I'll sum up quickly and ask a few questions [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > single program. At some point I just put it aside and > don't get back to it. I'm not an MD and I don't have answers re the drugs for you. But what struck me is that your cognitive and motivational problems might well be a result of a lack of sleep. Since you say you can fall asleep easily, can you work really hard on motivating yourself to go to bed at a reasonable hour? Say, by putting yourself on a schedule, maybe even setting alarms or timers to remind yourself to go to bed at 11 PM each night? Could you try it for a week to see what happens? I don't understand why the doctors are unwilling to try CPAP until you have a regular schedule, since having to use CPAP might help you regulate your schedule. JMO. FurPaw Signature"In a sense, we are hallucinating all the time. What we call normal vision is our selecting the hallucination that best fits reality." - V. S. Ramachandran To reply, unleash the dog > But what >struck me is that your cognitive and motivational problems might well be >a result of a lack of sleep. Yes, I suspect that plays at least a partial role. Certainly there are times when the fatigue causes my head to get foggy and I am not able to keep all the elements of a problem in my mind. >Since you say you can fall asleep easily, can you work really hard on >motivating yourself to go to bed at a reasonable hour? Been there done that for more than a year how. Doesn't work. I have two working hypothesis on what's causing the problem. 1) I have some form of OCD which causes me to obsessively stay awake. 2) My subconcious thinks it's better for me to not sleep than not breathe. So it puts off going to sleep. >I don't understand why the doctors are unwilling to try CPAP until you >have a regular schedule, >since having to use CPAP might help you >regulate your schedule. They think just the opposite. That CPAP will adversley affect my sleep because it addds distractions. I have to say that I find your suggestion... well dumb ( sorry ), if I procrastinate going to bed, having CPAP will not make me procrastinate less. Instead it will make me procrastinae putting on the CPAP. >>But what >>struck me is that your cognitive and motivational problems might well be [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > having CPAP will not make me procrastinate less. Instead it will make > me procrastinae putting on the CPAP. You know yourself far better than I do. Have you done anything to try to deal with the procrastination? Having the CPAP won't "make" you procrastinate; it merely gives you yet another opportunity to procrastinate. Have you considered trying cognitive therapy or cognitive behavioral therapy for this problem? (This advice is worth as much as that coming from a friendly stranger on the bus.) FurPaw Signature"In a sense, we are hallucinating all the time. What we call normal vision is our selecting the hallucination that best fits reality." - V. S. Ramachandran To reply, unleash the dog >You know yourself far better than I do. Have you done anything to try >to deal with the procrastination? Having the CPAP won't "make" you >procrastinate; it merely gives you yet another opportunity to procrastinate. I tried a lot of things including behaviour therapy. I suspect that the procrastination is one of two things: 1) because I don't want to go to sleep and stop breathing, 2) it's some form of OCD. In any case, it is not an easy thing to solve. A pill wont help because if I put off going to sleep, I will put off taking the pill until I go to sleep. I wasn't saying CPAP will make me procrastinate more, I was saying that the ritual of putting on CPAP is not going to help. Where I put off going to bed now I will put off putting on CPAP later. Trazadone is bad stuff. I took it for two years and it really messed me up. I gained 75 pounds and lost much of my short term memory. My mouth was always dry and felt like I was eating fiberglass insulation. When I went on a business trip and forgot to pack my meds, I literally could not sleep for three nights because I didn't have the Trazadone. Don't take that stuff. It is wicked. <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:qeslk0ts8ldr1qblcsmhc8rvchl8mg2p8p@4ax.com... > Hi, > My situation is complex. I'll sum up quickly and ask a few questions [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > Thanks. > Hi, > My situation is complex. I'll sum up quickly and ask a few questions [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > Thanks. You need a data sheet on every medicine you take. Reference: http://www.healthsq.com http://www.fda.gov/cder/abproval http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplusinfo/uspdi/20273.html Best wishes >You need a data sheet on every medicine you take. Reference: >http://www.healthsq.com >http://www.fda.gov/cder/abproval >http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplusinfo/uspdi/20273.html If it's actively promoted, you can usually type in: http://www.drug.com/ (where "drug" is the name of the drug) and it'll bring up the manufacturers' Web site. If that's not the case, the manufacturers' Web site usually has everything they make (you might have to go from generic name to brand name if it's a generic). > 1) I had no trouble falling asleep, but I had trouble > *going* to sleep. It seemed like I am always saying [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > apnea ( mild, only on my back ). The doctors decided > to put CPAP on hold until I reset my schedule. The trazadone is a tricyclic antidepressant, though I think its main use now is as a sleep inducer, since it is reliable and has no side effects for most people, and the interactions with SSRIs, beta blockers and many other common drugs are minimal. I remember something about uncontrollable erections for some men, but it was rare. I used to take it once in a while when I couldn't sleep and a family member had a prescription. Half of a 50mg pill always did the trick for me. As for your sleep problems, you might try taking a sleep aide (trazadone, benadryl, whatever) when you first think you are ready to go to bed, or even a bit before. That way the drug will kick in before long, and soon you'll feel a bit drowsy. I know what you're talking about and I've often had major sleep problems, stemming mainly from not feeling drowsy enough to physically lay down and attempt to sleep. Once I convince myself that I'm tired, whether with diphenhydramine, alcohol, melatonin (it does make some of us sleepy), trazadone, ambien, will power, TV, or whatever, I sleep fine. I'm just really good at staying busy late at night, and you might be, too. As for your problems with your attention and mental clarity, this is something a doctor should be able to address. I'm not one, but it sounds to me like you might have ADD. You are obviously intelligent and seem like you really want to solve your problems, so take a professional's advice, and take everything on usenet with a grain of salt. Chances are, with a bit of well-planned treatment you'll be fine. Rev. Sean >The trazadone is a tricyclic antidepressant, Trazodone has its own unique chemistry: "DESYREL (trazodone hydrochloride) is an antidepressant chemically unrelated to tricyclic, tetracyclic, or other known antidepressant agents." >I remember something about uncontrollable erections for >some men, but it was rare. It's a side effect worth knowing about because it can cause permanent impotence. I have taken Trazodone and had the long lasting erections, so I try not to take that. I never heard anything about the erections causing impotence. > >The trazadone is a tricyclic antidepressant, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > It's a side effect worth knowing about because it can cause permanent > impotence. > I have taken Trazodone and had the long lasting erections, so I try > not to take that. I never heard anything about the erections causing > impotence. It can cause you to stay erected for hours or days withut any stimulation. It's very painful and can do real damage. Ruben >> I have taken Trazodone and had the long lasting erections, so I try >> not to take that. I never heard anything about the erections causing [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Ruben It's called Priapism, and it's not funny. http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic486.htm SignatureSSS, Steve / Strathclyde / Scotland. ------------------------------- <snip> > >I remember something about uncontrollable erections for > >some men, but it was rare. > > It's a side effect worth knowing about because it can cause permanent > impotence. I'm not saying this to be flippiant about it, I'm asking this out of just plain curiousity; being a woman, I don't know a whole lot about erections!! <bg> In just what way are erections controllable? Can men decide when they get an erection and when they don't? Or how long it will last? I know to a point they can control how long, they 'hold back' from ejaculating, because most men, once they ejaculate, become flaccid. Hypothetically speaking though, could a man be having sex, and choose to make it go soft without ejaculating, and still involved in the sex act? If he cannot, why is that a bad thing? Wanda SignatureWoman was God's second mistake. Friedrich Nietzsche Yes he can, and no one said it's a bad thing ... at least not from the viewpoint of this man. ejaculation is not necessarily synonymous with flaccidity either. Some of us do have enough belly that even the most prominent boinger is not a problem. :) SignatureThe personal opinion of Gary G. Little > <snip> > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Wanda <snip> > Yes he can, and no one said it's a bad thing ... at least not from the > viewpoint of this man. ejaculation is not necessarily synonymous with > flaccidity either. Some of us do have enough belly that even the most > prominent boinger is not a problem. :) I don't understand that last sentence; what does the belly have to do with a hard-on being a problem? Wanda SignatureMy manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I care? Marquis de Sade Those of us with a belly do not "tent" since the belly provides shelter for our indiscretion. SignatureThe personal opinion of Gary G. Little > <snip> > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Wanda > Those of us with a belly do not "tent" since the belly provides shelter for > our indiscretion. ROTFL I always considered the belly as a way to keep the rain off a man's tools...... > > <snip> > > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > > Wanda >> >I remember something about uncontrollable erections for >> >some men, but it was rare. >> It's a side effect worth knowing about because it can cause permanent >> impotence. >In just what way are erections controllable? >Can men decide when they get an erection and when they don't? To a certain extent.... although, as I remember, adolescent boys tend to react to almost everything that way. :-) >Hypothetically speaking though, could a man be having sex, and >choose to make it go soft without ejaculating, and still involved in >the sex act? >If he cannot, why is that a bad thing? Well, the "uncontrollable" state is dangerous in that the underlying structures aren't designed to handle a prolonged (>4 hours) erection. > >> >I remember something about uncontrollable erections for > >> >some men, but it was rare. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Well, the "uncontrollable" state is dangerous in that the underlying > structures aren't designed to handle a prolonged (>4 hours) erection. So males who walk around proclaiming boastfully about their ability to "last for 8 hours without cumming!" (which I personally find a just a tad bit hard to believe) are actually doing themselves more harm than good if they somehow are able to last like that..... What kind of physical damage can an erection like that do? (to *him*, not her!!! <bg>) Wanda SignatureThe only true wisdom is in knowing that you know nothing. Socrates >What kind of physical damage can an erection like that do? (to *him*, not >her!!! <bg>) Well, for one thing, you can't pee with an erection. Maybe young guys can go eight hours without peeing, but us old farts would bust a bladder after about an hour and a half. Dick Evans >>What kind of physical damage can an erection like that do? (to *him*, not >>her!!! <bg>) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Dick Evans I can pee with an erection, but then I have enlarged prostate. I really hate having to wash the wall late at night! Michael >In just what way are erections controllable? Can men decide when they get an >erection and when they don't? They most definitely can. To create one, a man has to not want one. To nake one go away, a man has to want one. <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:f0jhl0p2naqht84921jisd9go2eof3caff@4ax.com... > >In just what way are erections controllable? Can men decide when they get an > >erection and when they don't? > They most definitely can. > To create one, a man has to not want one. > To nake one go away, a man has to want one. ROTFL!!! <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:f0jhl0p2naqht84921jisd9go2eof3caff@4ax.com... >>In just what way are erections controllable? Can men decide when they get >>an >>erection and when they don't? > They most definitely can. > To create one, a man has to not want one. > To nake one go away, a man has to want one. Don't forget that when the wife walks in, it usually disappears quickly. >Don't forget that when the wife walks in, it usually disappears quickly. Unless your mother walks in the room at the same time. <wink > <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Wanda Wanda, come on over and I would be happy to demonstrate how it all works. > > <snip> > >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > plain curiousity; being a woman, I don't know a whole lot about > > erections!! I think we have a winner for our straight line of the year award!!!!! (having ceased to roll about helpless with mirth he continues with his mail reading....) I think the stuff on this site helps: http://www.deepmeds.com/store hope this helps. ted > > > <snip> > > >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > (having ceased to roll about helpless with mirth he continues with his mail > reading....) > > <snip> > >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Wanda, come on over and I would be happy to demonstrate how it all works. LOL Don't tempt me, I haven't seen an erection, controlled or otherwise, in 4 months!! Wanda SignatureMonogamy is not natural..it goes against men's nature, but I also believe it's a gift that a man consciously gives a woman. Alyssa Milano >> > <snip> >> >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Wanda I haven't had one for 4 months! Are you taking Trazadone? That will cause priapism. I'd rather take an overnight sleeplab study to get to the root of the sleep problem, than take that godawful stuff to sleep. :X Get a good investigation and diagnosis at a sleep clinic. > Are you taking Trazadone? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Get a good investigation and diagnosis at a sleep clinic. Is there any serious side effect like that in women from Trazadone? wanda In sci.med.pharmacy Wanda <w-jackson@worldnet.att.net> wrote: : > Are you taking Trazadone? : > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] : > : > Get a good investigation and diagnosis at a sleep clinic. : Is there any serious side effect like that in women from Trazadone? : wanda An erection of the clitoris, you mean? > In sci.med.pharmacy Wanda <w-jackson@worldnet.att.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > An erection of the clitoris, you mean? Could happen! > In sci.med.pharmacy Wanda <w-jackson@worldnet.att.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > An erection of the clitoris, you mean? Just lick it vigorously and it will go down... > > In sci.med.pharmacy Wanda <w-jackson@worldnet.att.net> wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Just lick it vigorously and it will go down... Let me know if you need a volunteer for the job. :-) Bob I don't know if I'd call this a serious side effect, but oddly enough, women on Trazodone have reported spontaneous orgasims when sneezing. This caused a few news reports etc. back when it was reported, about 12 years ago-not sure if there has been any more problems. > Are you taking Trazadone? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Get a good investigation and diagnosis at a sleep clinic. Cut your dick off. > Are you taking Trazadone? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Get a good investigation and diagnosis at a sleep clinic. Trazadone, huh? Will that work for men too? `Sounds better than Viagra. :-) Bob Someone actually died from taking Trazadone and having an erection that wouldn't go away. Just like the infamous penis injection of cocaine. >> Are you taking Trazadone? >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Bob I take Trazodone to sleep but it gives me delayed ejaculation and ejaculatory impotence, rather than priapism. There really must be something better. My community mental health center cannot discuss the problem in an adult manner. When I asked a doctor in their Emergency Service about alternatives, and explained that Trazodone was causing ejaculatory impotence, she twirled her hair with her finger and euphemised that "those... kind of problems... can be a problem for men." She couldn't even *say* "ejaculatory impotence". Not that being able to keep at sex until I and my partner are pleasantly exhausted isn't some kind of bonus, but really, they are in denial. They are prescribing the same Trazodone my urologist prescribes for his premature ejaculators. No, it is not the same as Viagra, and neither are recreational drugs. My urologist advises DC the Trazodone but I have nothing else and have been insomiac for more than a year. An erection that lasts more than four hours exhausts the oxygen supply in the penis, with necrosis. After, say, three hours, that leaves one hour for the trip to the emergency room, where response will be swift. I have no idea what they do. Ice? I experienced more erections on Serzone than I do Trazodone. They were not priapistic, either. I was just *everybody's* friend, feeling vital and horny, which is normal for me. The community mental health center is for kids and I am looking for a small practice on my insurance rather than this body-negative, sex-negative beauracracy. (spelling of beauracracy?) >>Emma Chase VanCott <7elc@qlink.queensu.ca> wrote in message >news:<ckt120$jqv$2@knot.queensu.ca>... >>> Are you taking Trazadone? >>> >>> That will cause priapism. It might, but you can't bet or bank on it. I tolerance everything and tolerate everyone. I love: Dona, Jeff, Kim, Kimmie, Mom, Neelix, Tasha, and Teri, alphabetically. I drive: A double-step Thunderbolt with 657% range. I fight terrorism by: Using less gasoline. > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Wanda Eurethera, I've found it! You forgot to ask why we absolutely have to pee after we ejaculate. That's because semen in the eurethera causes a great deal of irritation, and can lead to eurethritis if we are forced to cuddle often enough. As to controlled erections, when I was in my teens and early twenties, I could cause an erection to occur without physical stimulation, as well as make it flacid at will. Now I'm in my 50's, and I need a pill (nothing personal, it's all about blood pressure). Be well, Michael > You forgot to ask why we absolutely have to pee after we > ejaculate. (Thinks) No, I have no memroy of such a reaction. (thinks again) No, doesn't happen. > As to controlled erections, when I was in my teens and early > twenties, I could cause an erection to occur without physical > stimulation, as well as make it flacid at will. Probably by association rather than will, but a teenager can get an erection contemplating laundry detergent, as in: "Oxydol makes one think of laundry which makes one think of underwear which makes one think of panties, which suggests........and so on." Thus the notorious hanging about around the soap section: "soap is slippery which makes one think of .... and so on" > > You forgot to ask why we absolutely have to pee after we > > ejaculate. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > suggests........and so on." Thus the notorious hanging about around the > soap section: "soap is slippery which makes one think of .... and so on" It's more of a bloodflow thing. Erections are causes by pumping blood into the penis and then holding it there with internal body structures. Holding it there too long causes the blood to deoxygenate, and causes damage to the penis. If it gets bad, it gets real bad. Pope Pie (Sy Lehrman) wrote: >>You forgot to ask why we absolutely have to pee after we >>ejaculate. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > suggests........and so on." Thus the notorious hanging about around the > soap section: "soap is slippery which makes one think of .... and so on" When I was a kid, there was no such association - I did not need a fantasy to be associated with my erection, it was simply a function that I was able to control. Please explain the assumption of perversity, associated with an erection. I don't understand it although I see it expressed often enough. Is this some sort of learned behavior? What purpose does it have, relative to sexual desire or reproduction. Do lower animals also require this perversity? Explain or Cite please. Michael SignatureNo trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were highly agitated. >>The trazadone is a tricyclic antidepressant, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > It's a side effect worth knowing about because it can cause permanent > impotence. That isn't a side-effect, it's intentional. Michael SignatureNo trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were highly agitated. > The third question is probably silly but I think I have to ask. If > the trazodone is for sleep, is it possible that I have an apnea event > and the drug keeps me asleep, killing me ( I can't wake up to breathe. > ) Hey, I have to be careful. The shrink didn't take a history. My dad has sleep apnea and has used a CPap machine every night ofr a long time, and he has also been prescribed trazadone in the past. It is not a repiratory depressant, so I wouldn't worry about it stopping your breathing. It is an antidepressant but it just so happens that it is really effective at making people sleep. If your apnea caused you to stop breathing you'd still wake up just enough to remember to breath once your body realized that you needed air. Consult your doc. on this, as with any and all medication and condition interactions. Rev. Sean >My dad has sleep apnea and has used a CPap machine every night ofr a long >time, and he has also been prescribed trazadone in the past. It is not a >repiratory depressant, so I wouldn't worry about it stopping your >breathing. It is an antidepressant but it just so happens that it is really >effective at making people sleep. Given that I've never heard of anyone taking it as an antidepressant, I suspect the Bristol-Myers Squibb research department could have created a Phase III (FDA licensing) study to show that Desyrel is a great sleeping pill. >>My dad has sleep apnea and has used a CPap machine every night ofr a long >>time, and he has also been prescribed trazadone in the past. It is not a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > created a Phase III (FDA licensing) study to show that Desyrel is a > great sleeping pill. I've taken it as an anti-depressant. It works as an anti-depressant, but the worst thing is the dependency that it causes. After taking Trazadone for several months, sleep is impossible for several nights after stopping. Trazadone is dangerous stuff. Beware. >I've taken it as an anti-depressant. It works as an anti-depressant, but >the worst thing is the dependency that it causes. A number of drug classes have to be tapered on termination to avoid unpleasant or dangerous side effects: antidepressants, beta blockers, and corticosteroids are three. >After taking Trazadone for several months, sleep is impossible >for several nights after stopping. If your doctor didn't taper your dosage... tsk, tsk, tsk. >Trazadone is dangerous stuff. Beware. YMMV with CNS-active pharmaceuticals. >>>My dad has sleep apnea and has used a CPap machine every night ofr a long >>>time, and he has also been prescribed trazadone in the past. It is not a [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Trazadone is dangerous stuff. Beware. Trazadone is used as a *Control* in many government experiments, and I mean everything from medical to psychiatric experimentation. Do not use this stuff, it is not a toy. It is intentionally used as a form of sterilization, as are most psychotropic drugs. All of you, please, use organic drugs, and boycott all pharmaceuticals. Just don't use them. I'm 52, and I was one of the original hippies. I know what I'm talking about, and I also know you probably won't listen. Just remember what I said when the time comes. I'm not trying to preach to you old-timers, you already know. But the kids don't, and the government knows that, too. Speaking of old-timers, how many of you remember the sh.t-kickers with the cowboy boots, who used to hurt us so bad, and rape our girls? Guess what? The soldiers didn't like them any more than the hippies did. Know why? Those ignorant bastards weren't over there either. They sure showed their "support" though, didn't they? If anyone else remembers "Pal's Waffle Shop", in Dallas TX, 1968, please interject <here>. If you know about the menu, I'll know you're the real thing. Which brings me to another point. By 1981, when the present drug war began, about 40% of the "Hippies" were war veterans. Why should that surprise anyone? They were drafting us first! It's about time the sh.t-kickers paid for their crimes, isn't it? I say that because their children have taken their places, and are repeating (perpetuating?) those crimes. Michael SignatureNo trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were highly agitated. >Subject: Re: Trazodone and Abilify. >From: nobody nobody@localhost.localdomain >Date: 10/2/2004 11:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time >Message-id: <QhN7d.2010$Vm1.224@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net> >Trazadone is used as a *Control* in many government experiments, >and I mean everything from medical to psychiatric experimentation. >Do not use this stuff, it is not a toy. It is intentionally used >as a form of sterilization, as are most >psychotropic drugs. that's cute....NOT funny how so many females on the above manage to get pregnant... hawki..... |
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