People consume less food as they age, but their protein needs remain
the same, so they need a higher percentage of protein in the diet.

It's well known that dogs, in particular, need a higher percentage of
protein as they age.

--
  Ron

It is impossible for vegans to get the *optimal* amounts of the
following:

vitamin B-12
vitamin D

Iodine
Iron
Zinc
Potassium
Sodium
(minerals deficiencies may be due to malabsorption, not necessarily
due to the lack in the diet, therefore supplementing will be useless)

cobalamin
omega-3 EFAs

There are more, especially the essential fatty acids and esential
proteins that are only found in enough quantity and quality from
animal sourced foods.

Eliminating animal sourced foods is by definition and nutrient
deficient diet.

On May 21, 11:15 am, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com>
wrote:
B-12 comes down to Earth from above in raindrops .. How is it we seem
to so low on B-12 .. ? <<

" A farmer chewing on wheat in the field, or sampling some alfalfa
leaves during harvest would likely be taking in  B12."

Protein and Vitamin B 12 for Vegans
Institute For Plant Based Nutrition

http://www.plantbased.org/html/b12.html

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

Monograph Number One

Dear James and Dorothy Oswald:  I am a student in Bethesda, Maryland.
For my  science project this year, I am doing a survey on protein and
Vitamin B12 in relation to vegetarian diets.  Since you are involved
in vegetarianism, I would appreciate it if you could send me some
information on this topic  Thank you.

R.. A., Potomac, Maryland.

November 30, 1997

Dear R. A.:

We are pleased to respond to your letter of November seventh which
inquired  regarding "protein and Vitamin B12 in relation to vegetarian
diets."  You are perceptive to note that there is not just one pattern
of vegetarian nutrition.  As  vegans and vegan education advocates, we
will respond to your questions from a vegan perspective.

As for protein, we vegans obtain it only from plant sources and
attempt  to avoid excessive quantities.  It seems that around 12 grams
of protein per day can be sufficient. (When we were your age, over 60
grams were typically advocated.  Researchers discovered that too much
protein - from any source - stresses the kidneys and is one modern
cause of osteoporosis.)  Every vegetable contains protein, legumes and
grains are protein rich and fruits provide small quantities of
protein.  Pretty much anything you eat will contain protein, so the
issue  is:  how much and what kind of food is appropriate and
desirable for the particular person?  These questions should be
discussed by every family and each  individual should consult with a
physician and nutritionist or dietitian to ascertain proper protein
quality and quantity.  Young people such as yourself need adequate
protein to encourage and sustain growth.  Athletes, depending on sport
and physique, and others who are physically active, likely require
more protein than others who are sedentary.  It could be that 24, 36,
48 or 60 and even more grams of protein per day might be required for
a young person at a particular time and  situation.  And protein needs
surely vary at different stages of life.  So each of us ought to
listen to our body, watch our muscular development and seriously
honor the counsel of professionals who advise individuals on nutrition
based on scientific studies and extensive experience.  There's no
single or magic number in  terms of daily protein needs which would
serve everyone well at all times.  The literature seems clear,
however, in suggesting that individuals in our American society are
often consuming excessive protein and this is causing some significant
negative effects on health.

According to Dr. John A. McDougall, M.D., "Eating  excessive amounts
of proteins can seriously damage our health.  When our diet contains
more proteins than we need, the excess is broken down in the liver and
excreted through the kidneys as urea.  This protein breakdown is
called BUN, or blood urea nitrogen.  Urea has a diuretic action, which
causes the kidneys to work harder  and excrete more water, and one of
the most important minerals lost in this manner is calcium…."  (John
A. McDougall, M.D. and Mary A. McDougall. The McDougall Plan.
Piscataway, New Jersey:  New Century Publishers, Inc., 1983, Page
100.)

We hope you will contact the  associations and individual institutes
of the National Institute for Health which are concerned with cancer,
diabetes, kidney and heart disease, and osteoporosis.  These are
listed in the Washington, D.C. and Bethesda telephone directories and
will provide brochures and research reports invaluable to your science
project study.  Also, you may wish to visit the U.S. Department of
Agriculture Library in Beltsville, MD, near your home in Potomac.
Nutritionists on staff  there will provide bibliographies on
vegetarianism you'll find of interest.  From USDA you can obtain
extensive documentation relating to plants, human and animal nutrition
and the school lunch program..

We are not medical doctors, nurses or dietitians, but educators.
Therefore, we have had a licensed doctor, a nurse  and a nutritionist
review this letter to ensure that we have not provided you with any
incorrect or misleading information.  Our role is service as
intermediaries, to facilitate access by individuals and organizations
to plant based nutrition related concepts, information and other
resources.  This is the function of the Institute  for Plant Based
Nutrition;  we are striving to serve as catalysts and connect people
with information which already exists but has not yet been secured or
realized.  Toward that end, we are enclosing publications of the
American Vegan Society, North American Vegetarian Society, Vegetarian
Resource Group, Physicians  Committee for Responsible Medicine, the
American Dietetic Association, EarthSave,  People for the Ethical
Treatment of Animals, Farm Sanctuary, The Vegetarian Society  of DC,
and the Institute for Plant Based Nutrition, and there are many other
organizations with publications which will be helpful as you pursue
the questions relating to protein (and Vitamin B 12) in human
nutrition.  Please, whatever else you read, obtain a copy of:
Nutritive Value of Foods, Human Nutrition  Information Service Home
and Garden Bulletin Number 72.  Washington, District of Columbia:
United States Department of Agriculture, 1991 [or most recent  date].
First published in 1960, and regularly updated since then, this is the
standard reference for nutritive values of foods.  Not only will this
be informative and helpful in your school work and personal dietary
planning, it is also easy to read and inexpensive.  Your nearest
United States Government Printing Office retail outlet will supply a
copy for a few dollars (around $2.75 as we remember).  Or, you can
order this publication through the Superintendent of Documents,
USGPO, Washington, District of Columbia 20402.  It's a valuable
resource.

As vegans, we secure more than enough protein from our daily diet of
legumes,  grains, vegetables, roots, tubers, fruits, seeds, nuts and
herbs.

To close discussion of protein, for the moment, let us conclude that
too much is being consumed by many and this is reflected in their
waistlines as well excessive calcium in their kidneys and urine.  The
art of proper nutrition is finding the balance between actual needs,
perceived wants and individual body tolerances.

You also inquired regarding Vitamin B12.  Presumably you have looked
it up in an encyclopedia and know that this is a compound of the
mineral cobalt, cobalamin, a product of microbes and ubiquitous around
the world.  Creatures, including humans, intake B12 through  inhaling,
licking and eating food which has been exposed to air and the
particulate matter it carries.  From air currents and soil, plants
pick up B12, though it is said that plants do not "contain" B12.
Rather like a yeast or nutritious dust, cobalamin is around the world
floating in the air, washing into the soil during rain and snow, being
produced by microbes -which have access to cobalt - all over the
place.  It is on, rather than in plants.  And it is normally in us,
recycling.

We've heard doctors and dietitians advocate, "Don't scrub the carrots
too much" and "Don't cover the cooking pot."  These are simple
reminders that we sometimes go overboard scouring and peeling, and
some good stuff is on as well as in plants.  Korean kimchi, Chinese
pickled cabbage, Japanese tofu, Indonesian tempeh, Ethiopian injera,
European sauerkraut and diverse other foods which are openly fermented
or manufactured outdoors, are likely to provide B12 as is an unpeeled
apple, pear, carrot or radish.  Tofu, to cite just one example,
prepared indoors in stainless steel vats with tightly sealed lids and
then aseptically packaged is unlikely to contain B12 unless it is
added during the process.  A farmer chewing on wheat in the field, or
sampling some alfalfa leaves during harvest would likely be taking in
B12.

Healthy individuals recycle B12 in their bodies.  Our review of
research indicates that it is passed through the digestive tract and
then reabsorbed by the colon so that a given supply may last many
years.  Some colons may not assimilate B12 well and a deficiency might
be determined through a blood  test.  Many so-called nutritional
deficiencies are results of assimilation problems rather than effects
of insufficient intake.  That is, a given person might be  consuming a
thousand times more B12 than needed, yet suffering a deficiency.   And
another individual might rarely intake B12 yet have enough in the
body.

The  problem is that no one knows how much cobalt rich microbial B12
may be in the wind, on a leaf or potato today.  So, to be sure, many
people take a daily  supplement.  You'll find B12 listed as an
ingredient on many multiple vitamin and food products.  We personally
have no fears of B12 inadequacy, yet take a little as supplementation
in our vitamin tablets every day.  This in addition to eating much of
our food raw and periodically making kimchi in our kitchen...

If you Like to read the rest of our letter, please contact Jim Oswald
or write to IPBN 333 Bryn Mawr Avenue, Bala Cynwyd, PA. USA 19004-2606

On May 21, 1:15 pm, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:

B-12 is a known essential nutrient for humans. Essential means that a
human cannot make its own and will die without it, therefore he must
get it directly from food. Vitamin C is an essential nutrient for
humans and guinea pigs because they cannot make their own but most all
other animal can make their own.

Now, is B-12 actually an essential nutrient for a gorilla or a chimp
or a marmoset or a fruit bat? Are they the same as humans, in that
they can't make their own b-12, they must get it from food, and they
will die without it?

Do you have any documentation to support that humans, in relation to
b-12, are equivalent to those animals?