Got AA in your cells - be afraid of Poison Ivy!

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Taka - 22 Apr 2008 02:49 GMT

Without AA in the body there are no blisters and overreactive
inflammatory responses like this one:

What's worse that poison ivy? Nothing.

A few hours to a couple of days after you touch any part of a poison
ivy plant, your skin will start to itch and turn red, then break out
in blisters and develop crusty yellow scabs. The leaves contain so
much oil that you can break out after you pat a dog that has brushed
against the leaves. You can break out just from being near burning
poison ivy leaves.

If you think that you may have touched any part of a poison ivy plant,
wash it off with soap and water as soon as possible. You can remove
the oil only for the first few minutes after you touch it. After that,
the oil is bound to the skin and cannot be removed. Then, it cannot be
spread from you to other people or to other parts of your body. You
also should wash clothes that have touched the oil because they can
cause a rash for many months.

The rash becomes more severe for up to five days and then starts to
clear, but if you have several spots or you continue to touch objects
that have the oil, you can continue to break out for months. Since
poison ivy is caused by your own immunity trying to kill your own
skin, the only effective treatments are those that shut down your
immunity. Antihistamines are ineffective. The standard treatment is
cortisone type injections or pills, but some doctors do not prescribe
them because they are afraid of a rare and unusual complication in
which the hip joint is damaged. Frequent bathing helps to prevent
infection.

SOURCE: http://www.drmirkin.com/archive/6883.html

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_ivy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urushiol-induced_contact_dermatitis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urushiol

Taka

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Bolaleman - 23 Apr 2008 14:49 GMT

> Without AA in the body there are no blisters and overreactive
> inflammatory responses like this one:
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> Taka

"Without AA in the body there are no blisters and overreactive
inflammatory responses like this one:"

If you refer to AA as Arachidonic Acid, this is an essential (omega-6)
fatty acid that is present in the phospholipids (especially
phosphatidylethanolamine, phosphatidylcholine and
phosphatidylinositides) of membranes of the body's cells, and is
abundant in the brain. I understand you introducing statement as
hypothetic, right?

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Marshall Price - 28 Apr 2008 22:45 GMT

> Without AA in the body there are no blisters and overreactive
> inflammatory responses like this one:
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Taka

The Wikipedia article on Urushiol-induced contact dermatitis (in the
"Mechanism" section) says that the inflammatory reaction is an "induced
autoimmune response," but then it goes on to state that urushiol
"changes the shape of cell surface proteins ... initiating a T-cell
mediated immune response."

To me, that's a contradiction. Autoimmunity doesn't consist of
immune reactions against unfamiliar cell surface proteins, but familiar
ones. Though it might be an unpleasant and unproductive immune
response, and some healthy people do not react to urushiol that way, it
appears more likely to be an ordinary, run-of-the-mill allergic
reaction, not an autoimmune one.

Dr. Mirkin's statement regarding hydrocortisone pills and injections,
that "some doctors do not prescribe them because they are afraid of a
rare and unusual complication in which the hip joint is damaged," is
also puzzling -- not that doctors shouldn't avoid the risk of damaging
hip joints, but the contraindications, precautions, and adverse effects
of hydrocortisone fill several pages of small type in the PDR.

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Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

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Taka - 29 Apr 2008 15:27 GMT

> > Without AA in the body there are no blisters and overreactive
> > inflammatory responses like this one:
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> "changes the shape of cell surface proteins ... initiating a T-cell
> mediated immune response."

There are 2 mechanisms of preventing autoimmunity. First is a
selective killing of immune cells producing Ig reacting with own body
antigens - this seems to take place mostly during fetal development.
The second is the localized production of prostaglandins such as PGE2
which causes immune tolerance - this is also used by the fetus and
cancer cells to evade the immune system.

> To me, that's a contradiction. Autoimmunity doesn't consist of
> immune reactions against unfamiliar cell surface proteins, but familiar
> ones. Though it might be an unpleasant and unproductive immune
> response, and some healthy people do not react to urushiol that way, it
> appears more likely to be an ordinary, run-of-the-mill allergic
> reaction, not an autoimmune one.

Partially, I would say the people not reacting to urushiol may have
less AA in their cells or the reactivity is determined by their HLA
genotype. Allergic reactions are driven by AA metabolites -
leukotrienes such as LTC - some of which may be formed even by non-
enzymatic oxidation. Urushiol may induce both AA release and its
oxidation, it is an unsaturated lipid-like prooxidant molecule:

QUOTE: The allergic reaction is dependent on the degree of
unsaturation of the alkyl chain. Less than half of the general
population reacts with the saturated urushiol alone, but over 90%
react with urushiol containing at least two degrees of unsaturation
(double bonds). UNQUOTE
SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urushiol

Here you have the double bonds again - they are so reactive!

> Dr. Mirkin's statement regarding hydrocortisone pills and injections,
> that "some doctors do not prescribe them because they are afraid of a
> rare and unusual complication in which the hip joint is damaged," is
> also puzzling -- not that doctors shouldn't avoid the risk of damaging
> hip joints, but the contraindications, precautions, and adverse effects
> of hydrocortisone fill several pages of small type in the PDR.

Corticosteroids are suppressing prostaglandin production and
prostaglandins are needed for tissue repair and maintenance. See e.g.
my old post entitled "Inflammation for connective tissue repair" (this
doesn't mean I am advocating AA here, the eicosanoids with similar
effects could be produced from Mead acid as well).

Taka

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Marshall Price - 03 May 2008 22:45 GMT

>>> Without AA in the body there are no blisters and overreactive
>>> inflammatory responses like this one:
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
>
> Taka

Sorry, but I'm getting too confused. You speak of arachidonic acid
"release," but don't say where. Let's forget about cancer and the fetus
and focus on "the localized production of prostaglandins such as PGE2
which causes immune tolerance." I've never heard of this, but how does
it affect *auto-immunity*?

Do you agree with me that immune reactions to urushiol-altered cell
surface proteins are not auto-immune reactions?

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Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

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