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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / March 2008Calcium supplements: with or without vitamin D?
We take calcium supplements because we don't drink milk. My wife says we should buy only the ones that include vitamin D because it _must_ be taken along with the calcium for optimal absorption. I say: not necessary, because we have vitamin D in our multivitamin and from sunlight exposure, and as long as we have this background level in our systems, that's good enough. I found one thread from a several years ago where a self-described nutritionist took my point of view. We need something more authoritative. Can anybody point me to a relevant medical Web site? I gave up pursuing the matter in these newsgroups because I discovered you really go down the rabbit hole tracking discussions of calcium metabolism. -- Charles Packer http://cpacker.org/whatnews mailboxATcpacker.org > We take calcium supplements because we don't drink milk. > My wife says we should buy only the ones that include [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sunlight exposure, and as long as we have this background > level in our systems, that's good enough. See http://thevitamindcure.com/ -- the author was on the People's Pharmacy talk show the other week and seemed convincing but a little over enthusiastic. Vitamin D doesn't need to be taken at the same time as the calcium. In addition, the amount of vitamin D included in multivitamins and calcium supplements may be inadequate. You can get enough vitamin D from sun exposure in the summer time, but that increases your risk for skin cancer. The supplements are inexpensive and safe, so just take one of those. My SO and I take 2400 IU/day. Vitamin K is also important for preventing osteoporosis, but it's not clear how much of what type is enough. > I found one thread from a several years ago where a > self-described nutritionist took my point of view. We need [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > down the rabbit hole tracking discussions of calcium > metabolism. http://photomed.de/fileadmin/download/Werbemittel/holick-review.pdf is a start. You can Google other papers, but be sure to used advanced search and use Google Scholar. -- Ron > We take calcium supplements because we don't drink milk. > My wife says we should buy only the ones that include [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > http://cpacker.org/whatnews > mailboxATcpacker.org There are concerns nowadays that the DV for vitamin D may not be high enough (considering that taking 1,000 IU a day seems to have cancer-preventive value), but as for taking it concurrently with calcium, the very fact that it's a fat-soluble vitamin implies that (unlike many water-soluble vitamins) it can be accumulated in the body and therefore need not be taken very often. Charlie Rose has been hosting a series of specials in which very highly respected scientists come together to discuss the state of their arts, including medicine, and recently they discussed the hypothesis that both folic acid and vitamin D help prevent cancer (one by repairing chromosome damage, if I recall correctly), and that the DVs of both ought to be increased.  SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > > We take calcium supplements because we don't drink milk. > > My wife says we should buy only the ones that include [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > (unlike many water-soluble vitamins) it can be accumulated in the body > and therefore need not be taken very often. It depends. The off repeated saw about fat soluble vitamin and long term s is a deeply flawed generalization. In the case of vitamin D, as it comes in two forms D2 and D3 and most people only take tiny doses at most. Anyway the plant sterol form when given in large oral bolus doses will raise the serum 25 OH vit D levels for a couple of weeks and then the levels will tned to drop below preadminsteration levels. Only regular doses of D2 can maintain increases to 25 OH vit D levels. Whereas, vitamin D3 bolus doses are more effective in maintaining increases in vitamin D. There is evidence that the the RDA in the fall and winter should be 4000 IU for adults and 6000 for lacating women. As to folic acid it may take a full milligram to attain optimal serum quality and .7 or .8 milligrams to maintain genomic stability. I would suggest additional cobalamin in the context of increased folic acid levels. Moreover, additional betaine may also have its mertis alone and with the folic acid and B-12. > Charlie Rose has been hosting a series of specials in which very highly > respected scientists come together to discuss the state of their arts, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Marshall Price of Miami > Known to Yahoo as d021317c >>> We take calcium supplements because we don't drink milk. >>> My wife says we should buy only the ones that include [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >> chromosome damage, if I recall correctly), and that the DVs of both >> ought to be increased. I never took betaine seriously. Can you point me to some reliable information on it? SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > On Mar 22, 11:19 am, Marshall Price <d0213...@yahoo.com> wrote: > I never took betaine seriously. Can you point me to some reliable [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Marshall Price of Miami > Known to Yahoo as d021317c The folder on the topic primarily has the bulky PDF files so instead I'll suggest some PUBMED searches with the following search words in combination with betaine or trimethylglycine: homocysteine, s-adenosylmethionine, methyl, alcohol, steatosis, SAMe, methylation, equimolar, redox status, thiol, glutathione, nuclear factor-kb, aging, niacin. There are many lines of evidence for it value. Personally I pretty wedded to betaine HCL as a digestive aid which I find to be profoundly helpful. Therefore, I getting a multi-gram dose of the betaine base. >> On Mar 22, 11:19 am, Marshall Price <d0213...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> I never took betaine seriously. Can you point me to some reliable [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > aid which I find to be profoundly helpful. Therefore, I getting > a multi-gram dose of the betaine base. Okay. Thanks. I'm already into SAM for spermine and spermidine synthesis. (I had digestive trouble before I fasted, but no trace of it afterwards. Certainly no steatosis. Before, when I slapped my belly, I could often tell there was gas inside. That's one of the many things that disappeared completely. I just wonder whether fasting is as helpful for skinny people as it is for chubby ones. As I've said before, I'm going to try it again sometime soon, though my weight now is 120 lbs and my waist is 30 inches.) SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote: > >> On Mar 22, 11:19 am, Marshall Price <d0213...@yahoo.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Marshall Price of Miami > Known to Yahoo as d021317c Hopefully, you aren't six feet tall as at 120 pounds you'd be underweight. I think on first blush that the cubby, the obese, an the overweight would most benefit from fasting. Though on the other hand, a person who is melting off the fat, will likely be faced with the release of a heavy load of stored fat soluble toxins such as DDE and so on. What folic acid is good for, so is betaine. And betaine can work by way of a separate biochemical pathway. Soda pop drinkers are said to often have a fatty liver...steatosis of the liver. >> trigonometry1...@gmail.com | wrote: >>>> On Mar 22, 11:19 am, Marshall Price <d0213...@yahoo.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Hopefully, you aren't six feet tall as at 120 pounds you'd be > underweight. No, five seven and a half, and not muscular. I've still got fat to burn. :-) > I think on first blush that the cubby, the obese, an the > overweight would most benefit from fasting. Though on the other hand, > a person who is melting off the fat, will likely be faced with the > release > of a heavy load of stored fat soluble toxins such as DDE > and so on. I was concerned about that, and did take vitamins and occasionally, a few supplements. But I figured if there were toxins in my adipose tissue, it was high time I came to grips with them! That's one of the reasons I want to fast again, along with a hunch that I might be able to shrink my colon, veins, and skin. > What folic acid is good for, so is betaine. And betaine can work by > way > of a separate biochemical pathway. Apparently, it plays a role in converting methionine-derived homocysteine back into methionine, and in a couple reactions of lesser importance. But I suspect I can make all I need from folic acid. > Soda pop drinkers are said to often have a fatty liver...steatosis of > the liver. I doubt I have that problem, especially after having burned off so much body fat. When I saw the word, I was thinking of intestinal steatosis and suspected you might have meant steatorrhea, but they, too, don't concern me. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c
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