 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / September 2007Hi fat, low carb diet protective against cancers
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1662484,00.html "To the two researchers in Wurzburg, the theoretical debate about what is now known as the Warburg effect — whether it is the primary cause of cancer or a mere metabolic side effect — is irrelevant. What they believe is that it can be therapeutically exploited. The theory is simple: If most aggressive cancers rely on the fermentation of sugar for growing and dividing, then take away the sugar and they should stop spreading. Meanwhile, normal body and brain cells should be able to handle the sugar starvation; they can switch to generating energy from fatty molecules called ketone bodies — the body's main source of energy on a fat-rich diet — an ability that some or most fast-growing and invasive cancers seem to lack." Susan > Susan I am relying on your abstract but it seems that the researchers removed sugars as distinct from all carbohydrates from the diets. This does not mean that high fat diets are good. This is going back to the Atkins argument which is now dead as he is. Cormac. >> Susan > > I am relying on your abstract but it seems that the researchers > removed sugars as distinct from all carbohydrates from the diets. This > does not mean that high fat diets are good. Nor can you conclude that high fat diets are bad. This is going back to the > Atkins argument which is now dead as he is. > > Cormac. Low carb has many benefits. High modern carb has many detriments. Pramesh > x-no-archive: yes > > http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1662484,00.html "... have been enrolling cancer patients in a Phase I clinical study of a most unexpected medication: fat. Their trial puts patients on a so-called ketogenic diet, which eliminates almost all carbohydrates, including sugar, and provides energy only from high-quality plant oils, such as hempseed and linseed oil, and protein from soy and animal products. .... In 1924, the German Nobel laureate Otto Warburg first published his observations of a common feature he saw in fast-growing tumors: unlike healthy cells, which generate energy by metabolizing sugar in their mitochondria, cancer cells appeared to fuel themselves exclusively through glycolysis, a less-efficient means of creating energy through the fermentation of sugar in the cytoplasm. Warburg believed that this metabolic switch was the primary cause of cancer, a theory that he strove, unsuccessfully, to establish until his death in 1970." It is important to know if the German Nobel would recomend "energy only from high-quality plant oils, such as hempseed and linseed oil,". Who invented plant oils as eatable fats? They were always used as the biofuel for lamps. S* > Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Susan This is opposed to the very well respected china study by colin campbell. He showed that cancer increased as animal protein consumption increased. Populations who eat a primarily plant based diet have less cancer, heart disease, diabetes etc. Dolores > This is opposed to the very well respected china study by colin > campbell. He showed that cancer increased as animal protein > consumption increased. Populations who eat a primarily plant based > diet have less cancer, heart disease, diabetes etc. Dolores Not true. Vegetarians have just as high mortality, except for ischemic heart disease. Cancers are fueled by glucose, and insulin like growth factor. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Susan Vegetarians can eat a very bad diet. I stopped at a vegetarian restaurant in the New Hope area years ago and ended up eating food I would not normally eat at home. They used butter, cheese, eggs. So although a vegetarian does not eat meat, he can still be consuming a lot of animal protein. I prefer a plant based diet, but add two or three ounces of wild salmon a couple of times a week and two ounces of clams twice a month. I do this, not for the animal protein but for the vitamin B12. Pritikin is the only high carb diet guru that recommends small amounts of lean meat a couple of times a week. McDougall and Campbell (of the China Study) do not. They recommend taking a B12 pill. But my opinion is that your diet is not complete if you have to be prescribed a pill. Ornish allows skim milk and egg whites so I suppose one gets some vitamin B12 from these. Campbell shows the connection between cancer and animal protein consumption and between animal protein consumption and other degenerative diseases in The China Study. The most interesting thing in his book is the lower rates of liver cancer in poor filipino children who consume aflatoxin but do not have the resources to buy animal protein. It is the children from wealthier families who get the most liver cancer. Dolores > Vegetarians can eat a very bad diet. I stopped at a vegetarian > restaurant in the New Hope area years ago and ended up eating food I > would not normally eat at home. They used butter, cheese, eggs. So > although a vegetarian does not eat meat, he can still be consuming a > lot of animal protein. When I say animal protein, I mean meat. Butter eggs and cheese cause no health problems, it's the grains and the starchy veggies. I prefer a plant based diet, but add two or > three ounces of wild salmon a couple of times a week and two ounces of > clams twice a month. I do this, not for the animal protein but for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > if you have to be prescribed a pill. Ornish allows skim milk and egg > whites so I suppose one gets some vitamin B12 from these. I developed PCOS midlife with no prior hx on Ornish. > Campbell shows the connection between cancer and animal protein > consumption and between animal protein consumption and other [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > animal protein. It is the children from wealthier families who get > the most liver cancer. There is no credible scientific literature finding a causal link of any sort between animal protein, degenerative diseases and cancers, save for a possible link between cured meats and cancer. You're talking epidemiology, not health science. In a lot of studies claiming damage from meat, it's just a marker for soda, buns and french fries, frex. Glucose fuels cancer, as does IGF 1, not protein metabolism. Susan "dorsy1943" > This is opposed to the very well respected china study by colin > campbell. He showed that cancer increased as animal protein > consumption increased. "they can switch to generating energy from fatty molecules called ketone bodies - the body's main source of energy on a fat-rich diet" The Authors recommend to increase fats consumption not protein. S* >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >consumption increased. Populations who eat a primarily plant based >diet have less cancer, heart disease, diabetes etc. Dolores I have no doubt Campbell's findings *for*China* were correct. Orientals have been eating rice as a staple food for thousands of years. This doesn't mean all the rest of the world would be well served by that much grain-based carb or low animal protein & fat. As an indicator, Orientals haven't traditionally consumed dairy, and most are lactose intolerant in adulthood; the same applies to most native populations of the world, and so is probably the dominant condition in worldwide population numbers. They've never had dairy as a source of fat & protein. Europeans, and by extension most Caucasian Americans, however, are mostly lactose tolerant (producing lactase through adulthood), likely because they've been using dairy and the animals that produce it (high animal fat & protein) as food for thousands of years. Thus I would suggest that studies on Europeans and Caucasian Americans would indicate higher fat and protein is best, while studies on others would indicate the opposite. Yet we rarely if ever see such genetic separation noted in general nutritional studies. Just finished _The Making Of The Fittest_ by Sean B. Carroll. The basic genetic concepts he explains (mutation and natural selection) would seem to be relevant here. It's not as heavy as it looks. Carol -- First, eliminate the poison. <mzlindyone@earthlink.net> > I have no doubt Campbell's findings *for*China* were correct. > Orientals have been eating rice as a staple food for thousands of > years. It is not truth. People who eat grains and are healthy eat grains after fermentation. The Orientals too. See: http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/koji.html . Try uderstand. Hen eat grains and next we eat eggs and hen. The same is when yeast "eat" grains and next we eat yeast. Yeast contain the animal starch and proteins more similar to.animal protein than to plant proteins. >This doesn't mean all the rest of the world would be well > served by that much grain-based carb or low animal protein & fat. Europe in almost all XX centuary was on such diet. But people eated grains as leavened bread. S* > <mzlindyone@earthlink.net> >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >fermentation. The Orientals too. See: >http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/koji.html . I knew about the soy, but is ALL rice fermented? Or just eaten always with other fermented products? I guess traditionally without refrigeration or some product to inhibit mold, all grain ferments naturally, doesn't it. And fairly quickly, even in normal atmospheric humidity, if my experience with horse feed is any indicator. >Try uderstand. Hen eat grains and next we eat eggs and hen. The same is when >yeast "eat" grains and next we eat yeast. Yeast contain the animal starch [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Europe in almost all XX centuary was on such diet. But people eated grains >as leavened bread. And this bread in modern terms would be most similar to a sourdough whole wheat or rye? Obviously without preservatives and so not found on the average "sterile food" American grocery shelf. Carol >> <mzlindyone@earthlink.net> >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > atmospheric humidity, if my experience with horse feed is any > indicator. Yes. Grains are eadible as green, sprouted or fermented. In nature no dry grains. The elevators are rather modern invention. >>Try uderstand. Hen eat grains and next we eat eggs and hen. The same is >>when [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > And this bread in modern terms would be most similar to a sourdough > whole wheat or rye? The "whole" grains are also the modern invention. The time will show if it is a good idea. People in the last centuries used flour. > Obviously without preservatives and so not found on the average "sterile > food" American grocery shelf. It is important to know that leavened bread (and leavened buns, flapjacks, knedlicheks and so on) are better than cereals and that the best are the animal products. S* |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.