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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / August 2007

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Multivitamin and skin dryness and a heads up on Manganese

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No Spam - 23 Aug 2007 22:06 GMT
I am well aware that certain excesses, ratios, or forms of vitamins or
minerals are associated with dry skin, but I have yet to narrow it
down to a specific culprit.

Perhaps someone else can relate to this.  The dryness typically
occurred on the inner part of the eyebrow area of the eyebrows,
especially the right one.  A worsening of the dryness occur every week
or so as other additional dryness would develop in a few spots around
the mustache area.  A few days off the multivitamin--be it either Twin
Labs Daily One w/o Iron or Swanson's Century Formula w/o Iron--has
completely cleared up the problem.

I am a 39 year-old white male.  My diet is mostly whole grains and
vegetables, a little fatty fish every day such as canned jack
mackerel, and some pumpkin and sesame seeds.  The diet (w/o the multi)
meets most of the RDAs, with the notable exception of B5, which seems
to be relatively challenging to meet regularly w/o animal products.

Manganese and selenium RDAs are easily met, typically over 400% and
200%, respectively.  Manganese, in particular, has caught my eye,
since the multivitamins already well exceed the RDA on this, with 5mg
of manganese.  IMO, this is not particularly good.  E.g., from
http://www.online-vitamins-guide.com/minerals/manganese.htm:

Dosage

  Taking 4 mg or less of manganese supplements a day is unlikely to cause
  any harm. For older people, taking 0.5 mg or less of manganese
  supplements a day is unlikely to cause any harm. This is a lower amount
  because older people may be more sensitive to manganese.

While I am not ready to throw out the multis, I am considering taking
them much less frequently, perhaps taking them every other day or
during travel.  In the long run, I might take more specific nutrients
that might be less likely to be met on the diet and with a high upper
safe limit, such as B5.

Any comments are appreciated.  Thanks.
trigonometry1972@gmail.com - 24 Aug 2007 09:07 GMT
As memory serves excess manganese may increase
one chances of Parkinsons disease. The excess came
from well water in Greece. The dose as I recall was around
10 to 40 milligrams. Anyway that is where I'd start a search on
Pubmed. Having said that a chiro suggested 50 milligrams
of a Mn supplement for knee pain and that was back in
the mid to late 1980's and I think I was aware of this
research on this possible risk back then.

You may not need the extra Mn. I am much more conservative
with minerals than I am with vitamins and other nutrients.

> I am well aware that certain excesses, ratios, or forms of vitamins or
> minerals are associated with dry skin, but I have yet to narrow it
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> Any comments are appreciated.  Thanks.
Ron Peterson - 24 Aug 2007 14:28 GMT
> I am well aware that certain excesses, ratios, or forms of vitamins or
> minerals are associated with dry skin, but I have yet to narrow it
> down to a specific culprit.

You might have a shortage of omega 6 fatty acids. Try eating an ounce
of almonds or walnuts each day.

--
  Ron
No Spam - 24 Aug 2007 15:27 GMT
>> I am well aware that certain excesses, ratios, or forms of vitamins or
>> minerals are associated with dry skin, but I have yet to narrow it
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> --
>    Ron

Yes, I am sure that I used to have a omega 6 deficiency; I have
recently done what you advise, but in the form of seeds that are heavy
in omega 6.  My w3/w6 ratio varies from 1:2 to 1:4.  There seems to be
no consensus on the optimal ratio for everyone; I have seen everything
from 1:1 to 1:5.  It's a fascinating topic and an area that we all
should pay closer attention to.

I mainly rely on raw pumpkin seed kernels for the w6, because they are
good for the zinc that I find challenging to get on a mostly
vegetarian diet.  In the future, though, I will try raw unshelled
pumpkin seeds because they are a whole food: in this particular case,
higher nutrient density and less risk of chemical processing.

Thanks for your help.
Ron Peterson - 24 Aug 2007 16:36 GMT
> > You might have a shortage of omega 6 fatty acids. Try eating an ounce
> > of almonds or walnuts each day.

> Yes, I am sure that I used to have a omega 6 deficiency; I have
> recently done what you advise, but in the form of seeds that are heavy
> in omega 6.  My w3/w6 ratio varies from 1:2 to 1:4.  There seems to be
> no consensus on the optimal ratio for everyone; I have seen everything
> from 1:1 to 1:5.  It's a fascinating topic and an area that we all
> should pay closer attention to.

I think that the w3/w6 ratio should be at least 1:4 and maybe as high
as 1:10, but I don't think that the experimental evidence for the
ratio is in. It's probably just a matter of having a sufficient
amount. Omega 6 was the first essential fatty acid to be identified
particularly in regard to skin health. You might try applying a high
omega 6 oil directly to your skin.

> I mainly rely on raw pumpkin seed kernels for the w6, because they are
> good for the zinc that I find challenging to get on a mostly
> vegetarian diet.  In the future, though, I will try raw unshelled
> pumpkin seeds because they are a whole food: in this particular case,
> higher nutrient density and less risk of chemical processing.

Pumpkin seeds are great. I mainly get the raw unshelled pepitas and
roast them at 340? F for 20 minutes. I think that the shell only adds
fiber reducing the absorbtion of the other nutrients.

I was suggesting almonds and walnuts as a way of getting a little
variety in your omega 6 intake.

--
  Ron
No Spam - 24 Aug 2007 21:25 GMT
> Pumpkin seeds are great. I mainly get the raw unshelled pepitas and
> roast them at 340° F for 20 minutes. I think that the shell only adds
> fiber reducing the absorbtion of the other nutrients.
>
> I was suggesting almonds and walnuts as a way of getting a little
> variety in your omega 6 intake.

That's a good point, Ron.  To meet my Zn goal while not getting too much w6
from those nuts, I realized that I had overlooked an interesting
veggie: napa cabbage.  Shiitake mushrooms are also good but
uneconomical.

I encourage any vegetarian types out there to check into napa (aka
Chinese) cabbage.  It has a favorable Zn to Cu (a Zn antagonist) ratio
and relatively few oxalates, in addition to being relatively rich in
Zn.  It also gives a good excuse to try out some tasty Asian dishes.

Bake
Ron Peterson - 25 Aug 2007 05:27 GMT
> I encourage any vegetarian types out there to check into napa (aka
> Chinese) cabbage.  

Also check into bok choy, which is also high in calcium. See:
http://sacfoodcoop.com/PDFs/brassicas.pdf

--
  Ron
 
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