Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / May 2007

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

State climatologist not jumping on global warming bandwagon

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Tunderbar - 16 May 2007 20:57 GMT
http://www.cdispatch.com/articles/2007/05/16/local_news/area_news/area01.txt

State climatologist not jumping on global warming bandwagon

By Joey Vaughan
jvaughan@cdispatch.com
Wednesday, May 16, 2007 11:10 AM CDT

>From left, state climatologist Dr. Charles Wax speaks with Rotary Club
members Bob Gilbert and Jennings Cox. (Photo: Vaughan) Photo Gallery

Many people who saw "An Inconvenient Truth," a global warming
documentary featuring Al Gore, immediately became very concerned about
global climate change and impending weather disasters.

Don't count state climatologist Dr. Charles Wax of Mississippi State
University as one of them.

"First off, there isn't a consensus among scientists," Wax told the
Columbus Rotary Club Tuesday. "Don't let anybody tell you there is."

Wax spent much of his presentation telling the audience how the global
climate is cyclical. It's always gone through periods of warming and
cooling. As for cries of impending doom, Wax says there's tons of data
on both sides - and man's ever-changing weather monitoring capability
further clouds the picture.

"I wouldn't want to be called a skeptic," Wax said. "I have been
called non-reputable (by people who believe differently)."

The climate is changing, Wax admits - but it's always changing and
always has.

"I don't know if it's going to rain Thursday or not. Certainly I don't
know what the temperature is going to be in 2050," he said.

Wax said political and policy confusion have fueled the debate over
global warming, and changes in the way weather is tracked have added
to the confusion.

"In 1957, all the thermometers (the government uses to track
temperatures) were moved from fields onto airports," Wax said. "It
went from the Weather Bureau, which supported agriculture, to the
Department of Commerce. Cities are hotter. (If you look at the
numbers) you'll see a major climate change in 1957 alone."

Wax showed Rotarians graphs of climate trends over 11,000 years,
pointing out the cycles global temperatures have gone through. He said
the rise of civilization coincided with a warming period.

"There was a little ice age from 1400 to 1800," Wax said. "We're
warming back up, but it's not nearly as warm as it was 2,000 or 7,000
years ago."

In "An Inconvenient Truth" Gore suggests the hurricane season in 2005
that produced Katrina and Rita was directly attributable to man's
effect on the global environment.

Wax believes that's an oversimplification.

"It's not magic and it's not anything that's never happened before,"
he said.

Wax said the 2005 hurricane season was the result of a decades-long
natural cycle coming around at the same time that all six weather
variables needed for hurricanes to form were above normal levels.

Then, when forecasters called for another terrible hurricane season in
2006, all was quiet.

"The vertical wind shear blasted everything off," Wax said. "There
wasn't a single hurricane. It's become known as the 'Year of Shear'."

That 2005 hurricane season set a record for named tropical cyclone
activity. The previous worst year was 1933.

"Are totally different things happening now? I think probably not -
we're just seeing more," Wax said.

"I think 1933 was worse. In '06, we had satellites, radar and people
flying around looking at storms," he continued. "In 1933, we had
people on ships and people on land waiting for the storms to hit. When
you're on a ship, if you see a storm you head the other way. We still
managed to find 25."
GMCarter - 17 May 2007 11:22 GMT
>http://www.cdispatch.com/articles/2007/05/16/local_news/area_news/area01.txt
snip
>Don't count state climatologist Dr. Charles Wax of Mississippi State
>University as one of them.

Meanwhile, glaciers are melting all over and a huge melt down has
occurred in Antarctica.

No, gosh, there's no global warming. Listen to this a.shole and buy
more gas! Not to worry!!

I wonder if he's one of those a.sholes that says HIV doesn't cause
AIDS too.

        George M. Carter
TC - 18 May 2007 15:39 GMT
> >http://www.cdispatch.com/articles/2007/05/16/local_news/area_news/are...
> snip
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>                 George M. Carter

The climate has been changing forever. From around 900 to around 1400
we had a warming period that was warmer than todays temperatures. Then
we went thru the Little Ice Age from around 1400 to around 1750 when
the global temperatures were significantly lower than today.

http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/1000-yrs.gif

This temperature record has been compiled from many different datasets
of data from different sources. Most climate related scientists agree
that that chart accurately represents the temperature record.

1) Global warming is real.

It is well known that global temps are going up at about .6 degrees
celsius per 100 years since the end of the Little Ice Age, and nothing
has happened to show that this is increasing or decreasing. There is
no real evidence that this has accelerated in the 30 years or the last
10 years.

2) Does CO2 cause global warming?

The argument is that greenhouse gases cause the greenhouse effect that
causes global warming.

http://mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

Water vapor constitutes Earth's most significant greenhouse gas,
accounting for about 95% of Earth's greenhouse effect

http://mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

TABLE 1.

The Important Greenhouse Gases (except water vapor)
U.S. Department of Energy, (October, 2000) (1) (all concentrations
expressed in parts per billion)

Carbon Dioxide (CO2)
Pre-industrial baseline        288,000
Natural additions                68,520
Man-made additions           11,880
Total (ppb) Concentration     368,400
Percent of Total                  99.438%

So of the 5% of the total hreenhouse gases that is not ascribable to
water vapor, most of the 5% is from CO2. Of that total CO2, 368,400
ppb, the man-made component is only 0.04125% (11,880 ppb). In fact the
naturally occurring fluctuation is 6 times the amount of the man-made
CO2.

So, even if CO2 did drive climate warming, the amounts being
contributed by man are miniscule compared to naturally occurring
fluctuation and is minute compared to the impact of water vapor.

3) There is no science that definitively shows that CO2 in fact causes
global warming. Most science points to CO2 as actually increasing as a
recult of global warming and not the other way around.

4) Computer models can't even predict weather a week down the road,
how can we rely on them to predict climate 10 or 20 years down the
road.

-------

It is claimed that (a) CO2 causes global warming and (b) CO2 levels
are at their highest in recorded history therefore temperatures will
skyrocket as many as 7 degrees in the next decade or two.

If that is the case that (a) CO2 cause global warming and (b) CO2 is
at an all time high, why are todays temperatures not the highest in
recorded history? Looking at the fudged and cherry-picked hockey stick
graph that, indeed, *appears* to be the case but if you look at the
actual real data, you will see that the Medieval Warming period was in
fact much warmer than todays temperatures. And that was just 500 years
ago.

-------

The IPCC is a committee of politicians from the UN. In 1997, they
showed the above reakl temperature graph in their report. But that was
an inconvenient truth so in 1998, they omitted that graph. They showed
this graph, the infamous hockey stick graph:

http://meteo.lcd.lu/globalwarming/hockey_stick/hockeystick01.html

This is what the IPCC hangs it hat on with regards to global warming.
Complete scientific revisionism at its worse.

Suddenly, the temperature record omits the Medieval Warm Spell and the
Little Ice Age. Michael Mann, a "scientist", on behalf of the UNs
IPCC, took two different sets of cherry picked data that would give
him the results he wanted and tacked them together. He also shifted
some of the data and arbitrarily shifted it by 87 years. This chart is
a complete fraud. No climateologist worth his salt would agree that
the hocky stick graph is an accurate representation of global
temperatures in the past 2000 years.

The IPCC created its latest reports by drafting the statement first,
then they call on "scientists" to provide data to support it. That is
not how science works. Many real scientists have walked away from the
process because of this. Some are still listed as contributors to the
report even after they have walked away.

The IPCC gathers this cherry picked data to support their politics,
then they publish it and announces a consensus. The consensus only
exists amongst themselves, the politicians on the IPCC. Few of the
scientists tapped by the IPCC agree that:

CO2 is the main force behind accelerated global warming. Sunspot
activity nas a stronger correlation that CO2. Water vapor is 95% of
the greenhouse effect.

There is no wide consensus that supports the IPCCs report. Fewer than
a few hundred scientists took part in writing the report. The final
content was determined by politicians. Many scientists who took part
in the report process strongly objected to the methodology and the
final content. Few real scientists agree with its temperature
forecasts. Over 17,000 scientists have signed a petition against the
IPCCs report, its position and its forecasts.

http://www.oism.org/oism/s32p31.htm

The pro-global warming advocates attempt to stifle discussion and
debate on the topic, not by presenting the science, but by political
browbeating. They insist that there is a consensus where there is
none. By insisting that there is a consensus, they then can attack
scientists as being "deniers" and "denialists" as if they had a
consensus and the mainstream is now on the outside looking in. Long
respected climatologists who express doubt about the IPCCs reports
find themselves attacked personally and professionally and sometimes
find themsleves losing funding and status.

There cannot be a consensus because there never was a debate or
discussion. The IPCC said it was so and the world better accept it,
regardless of the science.

So when a scientists expresses doubt about the IPCCs forecasts, they
are not bucking a consensus, they are questioning a politically
imposed "scientific" view.

Global warming is real, at .6 degrees celsius per 100 years. Not at
any grossly exagerated rate as the IPCC would have us believe.

It doesn't matter how loudly or how often the IPCC shouts out its
forecasts, most scientists do not consider global warming to be a
threat to anything.
TC - 18 May 2007 16:20 GMT
> > >http://www.cdispatch.com/articles/2007/05/16/local_news/area_news/are...
> > snip
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
> naturally occurring fluctuation is 6 times the amount of the man-made
> CO2.

This should read that the man-made component of CO2 is only 4.125% of
the baseline of the 5% of non-water-vapor greenhouse gases.

And it is in fact only 3.2247% of the total of the 5% of non-water
vapor greenhouse gases.

> So, even if CO2 did drive climate warming, the amounts being
> contributed by man are miniscule compared to naturally occurring
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
> activity nas a stronger correlation that CO2. Water vapor is 95% of
> the greenhouse effect.

This should read "CO2 is not proven to be the main force......"

> There is no wide consensus that supports the IPCCs report. Fewer than
> a few hundred scientists took part in writing the report. The final
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
GMCarter - 19 May 2007 11:15 GMT
>> >http://www.cdispatch.com/articles/2007/05/16/local_news/area_news/are...
>> snip
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>The climate has been changing forever.

Of course it has. And it will stop changing when the sun belches and
incinerates the inner planets.

The difference is that this time, our species is accelerating the
change and potentially creating the next great extinction.

It is little surprise that you embrace, though sad to see, this denial
of global warming and its anthropogenic sources, much in the same way
that you deny that HIV causes AIDS.

Sadly, it renders your more cogent criticisms of the pharmaceutical
industry less potent.

        George M. Carter
TC - 23 May 2007 22:19 GMT
> >> >http://www.cdispatch.com/articles/2007/05/16/local_news/area_news/are...
> >> snip
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Of course it has. And it will stop changing when the sun belches and
> incinerates the inner planets.

Or cools off and heats up again and keeps cycling like that for
another several million years.

> The difference is that this time, our species is accelerating the
> change and potentially creating the next great extinction.

CO2 does not drive the temperatures. Temperatures drive CO2. Water
Vapor is 95% of all the greenhouse gas effect.

TABLE 1.

The Important Greenhouse Gases (except water vapor)
U.S. Department of Energy, (October, 2000) (1) (all concentrations
expressed in parts per billion)

Carbon Dioxide (CO2)
Pre-industrial baseline        288,000
Natural additions                68,520
Man-made additions           11,880
Total (ppb) Concentration     368,400
Percent of Total                  99.438%

So of the 5% of the total hreenhouse gases that is not ascribable to
water vapor, most of the 5% is from CO2. Of that total CO2, 368,400
ppb, the the man-made component of CO2 is only 4.125% of
the baseline of the 5% of non-water-vapor greenhouse gases.

Naturally occurring fluctuations are 6 times more than the entire
globes man-made additions.

> It is little surprise that you embrace, though sad to see, this denial
> of global warming and its anthropogenic sources, much in the same way
> that you deny that HIV causes AIDS.

We are discussing CO2 causing catastrophic global warming. Man-made
CO2 cannot possibly drive temperatures.

CO2 is at its highest levels ever. Why are temperatures not at their
highest levels ever right now?

> Sadly, it renders your more cogent criticisms of the pharmaceutical
> industry less potent.
>
>                 George M. Carter

Actually it shows that I am independent minded and fair minded enough
to not rant and rave against a given industry just for the hell of it,
or for some prejudicial reasons or for reasons of ideology. I abhor
the fossil fuel industry and their global gouging of their products
end users, not to mention the damage to the environment, (remember the
Exxon Valdez), but I will not jump on the global warming bandwagon
just because I have antipathy towards the industry. I consider myself
an environementalist but I will not accept crap science as a way to
advance the cause. I actually look at the science and make my
determinations from that.

Global warming is an out and out fraud. It is a view held by a few
politicians, activists and weather "scientists" that have a vested
interest in perpetuating their industry.

Fewer than a few hundred people wrote and support the lie in the IPCCs
reports. It is all politics.

More than 17,000 scientists have signed a petition against the IPCC
and its predictions. Real scientists.

Wake up and smell the coffee. You've been had.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2332531355859226455&q=global+warming+swindle
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.