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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / March 2007

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fats used to replace trans fats are dangerous

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Tunderbar - 19 Mar 2007 17:12 GMT
http://www.everybody.co.nz/page-c194bc1b-010f-421d-921f-bccab7baf68c.aspx

Trans fats have gained a bad name because of their detrimental effects
on cardiovascular health and have been in the news because of the
actions of New York City and other US cities, which are banning them
from restaurant foods.

An industry response has been the development of so-called inter-
esterified fats (since you can't fry or make pastry without fat). Such
fats are typically made by first rearranging the location of fatty
acids on a natural fat (usually soybean oil) with enzymes, then
blending with naturally occurring saturated and unsaturated fats to
produce the desired consistency. One such a product is called
Novolipid®.

These fats are devoid of trans-fatty acids, which are so common in
hydrogenated ("hardened") fats. But studies performed over a mere four
weeks have found that use of such replacement fats by 30 healthy
adults produced a reduction in HDL "good" cholesterol levels and,
worse, a 20% rise in blood glucose level. The glucose effect was
traced to a fall in insulin action. The fats compared were palm oil
(saturated), partially hydrogenated soybean oil (containing trans-
fats), or inter-esterified soybean oil.

It appears it may be necessary to think again about this technological
fix. A buch better solution might be to change the food formulation so
natural fats can be used.

***

TC
Tunderbar - 19 Mar 2007 17:14 GMT
> http://www.everybody.co.nz/page-c194bc1b-010f-421d-921f-bccab7baf68c....
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> TC

http://www.stop-trans-fat.com/interesterified-fat.html

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-01/bu-nfs011607.php
Juhana Harju - 19 Mar 2007 17:18 GMT
: Trans fats have gained a bad name because of their detrimental effects
: on cardiovascular health and have been in the news because of the
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
: fix. A buch better solution might be to change the food formulation so
: natural fats can be used.

Related abstract:

Nutr Metab (Lond). 2007 Jan 15;4:3.
Stearic acid-rich interesterified fat and trans-rich fat raise the LDL/HDL
ratio and plasma glucose relative to palm olein in humans.
Sundram K, Karupaiah T, Hayes K.
Food Technology & Nutrition Research Unit, Malaysian Palm Oil Board, Kuala
Lumpur, Malaysia.

ABSTRACT: BACKGROUND: Dietary trans-rich and interesterified fats were
compared to an unmodified saturated fat for their relative impact on blood
lipids and plasma glucose. Each fat had melting characteristics, plasticity
and solids fat content suitable for use as hardstock in margarine and other
solid fat formulations. METHODS: Thirty human volunteers were fed complete,
whole food diets during 4 wk periods, where total fat (~31% daily energy,
>70% from the test fats) and fatty acid composition were tightly controlled.
A crossover design was used with 3 randomly-assigned diet rotations and
repeated-measures analysis. One test fat rotation was based on palm olein
(POL) and provided 12.0 percent of energy (%en) as palmitic acid (16:0); a
second contained trans-rich partially hydrogenated soybean oil (PHSO) and
provided 3.2 %en as trans fatty acids plus 6.5 %en as 16:0, while the third
used an interesterified fat (IE) and provided 12.5 %en as stearic acid
(18:0). After 4 wk the plasma lipoproteins, fatty acid profile, as well as
fasting glucose and insulin were assessed. In addition, after 2 wk into each
period an 8 h postprandial challenge was initiated in a subset of 19
subjects who consumed a meal containing 53 g of test fat. RESULTS: After 4
wk, both PHSO and IE fats significantly elevated both the LDL/HDL ratio and
fasting blood glucose, the latter almost 20% in the IE group relative to
POL. Fasting 4 wk insulin was 10% lower after PHSO (p > 0.05) and 22% lower
after IE (p < 0.001) compared to POL. For the postprandial study the glucose
incremental area under the curve (IAUC) following the IE meal was 40%
greater than after either other meal (p < 0.001), and was linked to
relatively depressed insulin and C-peptide (p < 0.05). CONCLUSION: Both PHSO
and IE fats altered the metabolism of lipoproteins and glucose relative to
an unmodified saturated fat when fed to humans under identical
circumstances. PMID: 17224066

http://tinyurl.com/382zl4

Free full text:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=17224066

Signature

Juhana

monty1945@lycos.com - 19 Mar 2007 21:45 GMT
Yes, I've mentioned that the new "non-trans fat" stuff may be worse
than the "trans fat."  However, keep in mind that "trans fat" is "bad"
only in terms of "markers."  If you give lab animals a diet rich in a
typical margarinem (rich in "trans fat"), they will live longer than
giving them a diet rich in rancid fish oil, and also cod liver oil.
In fact, it's likely that they would live longer than animals fed the
same amount of fat in the form of typical fish oil supplements, as
well as something like chicken fat cooked while exposed to air.
However, unlike decades ago, there are few studies these days that
determine how long the animals live.  Instead, they determine if the
cholesterol levels of a rabbit are raised a bit on certain diets.
Utterly ridiculous !
monty1945@lycos.com - 19 Mar 2007 21:53 GMT
I'll add that my general rule of thumb for baked goods is that it has
to be fat free or nearly so (and with very little or no cholesterol),
or else the fat has to be at least 75% saturated.  If it is, I don't
care about "trans fat" - that is not an issue.  The unsaturated bonds
make such foods unhealthy, not the type of bonds.  The old nutritional
textbooks make this point, but it's been ignored because the people in
charge have an ideological committment to the notion that "saturated
fat" causes this or that "disease."  In fact, the are not even willing
to define "saturated fat" in a way that would allow for
experimentation.  Lard, now about 40% saturated, is called a
"saturated fat," which makes no sense whatsoever.  Most such studies
really show that those who eat more pork products are less healthy
than those who do not, which does make sense (saturated fatty acids
have nothing to do with it).  On my site, I quote recent molecular-
level evidence that explains exactly why such food (pork, "red" meat,
and "processed" meat) is so unhealthy.  There is also evidence showing
that steamed salmon and leftover skinned chicken are very unhealthy.

My free site is at:

http://groups.msn.com/TheScientificDebateForum-
monty1945@lycos.com - 19 Mar 2007 22:02 GMT
Also, palm oil is about half saturated fatty acids, so why not call it
a "half saturated fat?"  Don't common sense and basic logic come
first, before you begin any scientific investigation?
Ron Peterson - 20 Mar 2007 00:14 GMT
On Mar 19, 4:02 pm, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
> Also, palm oil is about half saturated fatty acids, so why not call it
> a "half saturated fat?"  Don't common sense and basic logic come
> first, before you begin any scientific investigation?

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17277466 indicates that
palm oil is more likely to cause a MI than soybean oil.

"These data suggest that as currently used in Costa Rica, and most
likely in many other developing countries, the replacement of palm oil
with a polyunsaturated nonhydrogenated vegetable oil would reduce the
risk of Ml."

--
  Ron
monty1945@lycos.com - 20 Mar 2007 03:33 GMT
Ron:

1.  Why don't you tell us, since you think this is an important study,
how many MI's there were in the palm vs. the soybean groups?

2.  What about all the studies that suggest the opposite?  Should a
person add them up, and whichever category has more, that is what one
should follow?  Or should a person begin by a molecular-level
understanding, and then work up to the tissue/organ level, and finally
to "epidemiological studies?"  Or do you propose something else?

3.  The study you cite does not control for antioxidant content, which
is important, because both oils are rich in unsaturated oils.  I could
do the same experiment and get the same results.  How?  By using the
best quallity soybean oil and the worst quality palm oil.

4.  If saturated fatty acids are to blame, how are the millions of
Asians consuming large amounts of coconut oil (which is 92% saturated
fatty acids) not dropping dead like flies from MI?

5.  Have you ever even considered the possibility that highly
unsaturated fat sources (including palm and lard) are potentially very
dangerous, whereas something like coconut oil is not?  Or is this a
thought that you cannot tolerate on any level?
monty1945@lycos.com - 20 Mar 2007 06:22 GMT
Note to number 4:  If, on the other hand, I use the best quality palm
oil and the cheapest soybean oil I can buy in a local supermarket,
would you be willing to put your own money up, along with mine?  We
will use several dozen rats, divide them into two equal groups, and
see which group lives long on a diet of 30% fat, either the quality
palm oil or the cheap soybean oil.  If the palm oil doesn't live as
long, on average, I will pay for all expenses.  Otherwise, you pay for
all expenses.  Sounds like an easy way to demonstrate that I am
incorrect, right?  How soon can I expect you to be ready to put your
money up for this experiment?  It will be held in escrow by our
attorneys until the experiment is completed.
Ron Peterson - 21 Mar 2007 05:59 GMT
On Mar 19, 9:33 pm, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:

> 1.  Why don't you tell us, since you think this is an important study,
> how many MI's there were in the palm vs. the soybean groups?

I never made a judgement on the importance of the study because I
don't have the full text. The abstract indicated that there were
significantly mor MI's in the palm oil group.

> 2.  What about all the studies that suggest the opposite?  Should a
> person add them up, and whichever category has more, that is what one
> should follow?  Or should a person begin by a molecular-level
> understanding, and then work up to the tissue/organ level, and finally
> to "epidemiological studies?"  Or do you propose something else?

The saturated fats have disadvantages on physical properties because
of their higher melting point causing them to accumulate in the
abdominal cavity.

Saturated fats are not metabolized as well as unsaturated fats, giving
rise to additional fat deposits.

The phospholipid layers on cells when dominated by satured fatty acids
reduce the ability of the cells to function.

> 3.  The study you cite does not control for antioxidant content, which
> is important, because both oils are rich in unsaturated oils.  I could
> do the same experiment and get the same results.  How?  By using the
> best quallity soybean oil and the worst quality palm oil.

The supply of vegetables is good in most warmer climates resulting in
high levels of antioxidents.

> 4.  If saturated fatty acids are to blame, how are the millions of
> Asians consuming large amounts of coconut oil (which is 92% saturated
> fatty acids) not dropping dead like flies from MI?

I have pointed out in previous posts that Malaysia suffers from higher
CVD despite their high consumption of coconut oil.

> 5.  Have you ever even considered the possibility that highly
> unsaturated fat sources (including palm and lard) are potentially very
> dangerous, whereas something like coconut oil is not?  Or is this a
> thought that you cannot tolerate on any level?

Palm oil is high in saturated fats, lard is lower, but beef fat is
high in saturated fat. Palm kernel oil is very high in saturated fatty
acids.

There isn't anyway for consumers to know if coconut oil has been
prepared in a safe manner, so people are better off avoiding it.

--
  Ron
Juhana Harju - 21 Mar 2007 08:29 GMT
: On Mar 19, 9:33 pm, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:

:: If saturated fatty acids are to blame, how are the millions of
:: Asians consuming large amounts of coconut oil (which is 92% saturated
:: fatty acids) not dropping dead like flies from MI?
:
: I have pointed out in previous posts that Malaysia suffers from higher
: CVD despite their high consumption of coconut oil.

I don't doubt it but do you have any reference for this?

Signature

Juhana

Ron Peterson - 22 Mar 2007 02:56 GMT
On Mar 21, 2:29 am, "Juhana Harju"
<spamshantigiriorama.removes...@gmail.com> wrote:

> : I have pointed out in previous posts that Malaysia suffers from higher
> : CVD despite their high consumption of coconut oil.

> I don't doubt it but do you have any reference for this?

I can't find the original data on which I based my conclusion.
However, http://www.foodmarketexchange.com/datacenter/product/fruit/coconut/dc_pi_ft_coco
nut09.htm

shows that the Philipines is the leading coconut oil producer. And,
http://www.os-connect.com/pop/p1.asp?whichpage=9&pagesize=20&sort=Country
shows that the combined life (M&F) is 67.48, which is quite low.

--
  Ron
monty1945@lycos.com - 22 Mar 2007 03:52 GMT
"I don't doubt it but do you have any reference for this?"

What does it matter?  If one can find a nation (Sri Lanka) with a
population of millions, widespread use of coconut oil, and very low
rates of heart disease, that is a direct refutation of the claim that
"saturated fat causes heart disease."  There is no need to worry about
how Malaysians are eating these days, with all the "modernization"
occurring there.  And of course, you can find low mortality from all
causes, because in some of these countries, there is much higher
infant mortality, which brings the statistics down signifcantly.
There also tends to be more workplace deaths as well.  What does this
have to do with death from heart disease?  The reason that so much
attention is paid to it in nations like the USA is because people
(especially men) die of it in their 40s, 50s, and early 60s.  Thus, if
a nation has a mortality in the late 60s, the statistics are useful in
this context, provided that they are still eating a lot of coconut,
and not eating the highly refined, highly unsaturated oils (corn,
canola, safflower, etc.).

Now if someone like Ron would like to find statistics for all of these
factors, then I would take a look at them, but again, I cite studies
that simply should not be possible if the "saturated fat causes heart
disease" is true, though I don't consider palm oil or lard a
"saturated fat" - one can call them an "approximately half saturated
fat" perhaps, but calling them "saturated fats" is simply a
demonstration of gross ignorance or a lack of basic human reasoning
skills.  How can people who eat huge amounts of coconut (and animalds
fed coconut) and who also have "high cholesterol" not have any heart
attacks?  The only way is if their life expectancy is about 50 or
less, which is not the case for the poeples in question (e.g., the
Pukapukans).  If you look at people like Malaysians, the only
intelligent thing to do is to study the rural people and the urban
people seperately, and eliminate deaths in infancy, as well as
workplace deaths and any other "un-natural deaths."  One can then do
this for USA statistics, of course.  Think of the USA, where African-
American males have a significantly lower life expectancy, yet they
eat the same food that "white" males from similar socio-economic
backgrounds do.  You should know, Ron, that in science, such factors
need to be controlled for, or else you do not have science.
monty1945@lycos.com - 22 Mar 2007 04:59 GMT
Did all of you see the new report, which contains the following
passage:

QUOTE:  ...The researchers couldn't explain why eating more animal fat
was associated with breast cancer risk. It may be that factors other
than fat are involved. For instance, grilling red meat can create
cancer-causing chemicals, and high-fat dairy products contain growth
factors that could affect breast cancer risk.

Earlier studies had suggested one reason for the increased cancer
risk, relating this to the heterocyclic amines (HCAs) that form when
red meat is cooked at high temperatures (like frying and grilling),
especially well-done. In laboratory studies, HCAs bond to estrogen
receptors and create estrogen-like effects. In earlier research with
women past menopause, those who consistently ate hamburger, beef steak
and bacon very well done thus getting high levels of HCAs -had more
than four times the breast cancer risk in comparism with women who
consumed these meats raw or medium done.

New research suggests that HCAs may pose more danger to some people
than others. Like many carcinogens, HCAs have to be activated to be
able to damage our DNA and pose cancer risk...  UNQUOTE.

I explained this on my site quite a while ago, and I also cited
evidence showing how important a role PUFAs play in this process.  The
evidence is so clear that the question that most intrigues me is how
people like Ron refuse to even consider it.

Source of the quoted passage:  http://www.tribune.com.ng/22032007/hlt2.html
monty1945@lycos.com - 22 Mar 2007 06:21 GMT
On my web site, you can go to the page:
http://groups.msn.com/TheScientificDebateForum-/oddsandendspart2.msnw

and you will see how I integrate some of  the relevant studies into a
coherent framework (it's a short essay).
MattLB - 23 Mar 2007 19:25 GMT
On Mar 22, 5:21 am, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
> On my web site, you can go to the page:http://groups.msn.com/TheScientificDebateForum-/oddsandendspart2.msnw>
> and you will see how I integrate some of  the relevant studies into a
> coherent framework (it's a short essay).

Coherent? It's a rambling assortment of clippings. Just to pick out
two...

>And here's a passage from a recent study supporting the point made above about
>how PUFAs cause damage: "Arachidonic acid epoxides, previously suggested to
> be involved in apoptosis, oncogenesis and cell proliferation, are generated by
>cytochrome P450 epoxygenases..."

That quote doesn't support your point and doesn't say PUFA cause
damage. It says that epoxygenase enzymes create epoxides.

>Finally, here is Lancet study that has received almost no attention:

It's a bit of a non-story, that's why.

>QUOTE:  How long-term dietary intake of essential fatty acids affects the
>fatty-acid content of aortic plaques is not clear. We compared the fatty-acid
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> and also between adipose tissue and plaque omega 6 polyunsaturated fatty
> acids (r = 0.89).

So to summarise: the pattern of PUFA in plaques in the artery walls
matches the pattern of PUFA in the blood flowing through those
arteries and in adipose tissue. That's what you'd expect if they were
both neutral dumping grounds.

MattLB
MattLB - 23 Mar 2007 19:15 GMT
On Mar 22, 3:59 am, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
> Did all of you see the new report, which contains the following
> passage:

Funnily enough, no, since Nigerian newspapers aren't where I go to
look for scientific information.

> QUOTE:  ...The researchers couldn't explain why eating more animal fat
> was associated with breast cancer risk.

It's an epidemiological study. I thought those were worthless non-
science as far as you were concerned.

> New research suggests that HCAs may pose more danger to some people
> than others. Like many carcinogens, HCAs have to be activated to be
> able to damage our DNA and pose cancer risk...  UNQUOTE.
>
> I explained this on my site quite a while ago, and I also cited
> evidence showing how important a role PUFAs play in this process.

None at all since it's heat that does it and PUFA don't contain
nitrogen.

MattLB
Juhana Harju - 22 Mar 2007 10:46 GMT
: On Mar 21, 2:29 am, "Juhana Harju"
: <spamshantigiriorama.removes...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
: I can't find the original data on which I based my conclusion.
: However,

http://www.foodmarketexchange.com/datacenter/product/fruit/coconut/dc_pi_ft_coco
nut09.htm

: shows that the Philipines is the leading coconut oil producer. And,
: http://www.os-connect.com/pop/p1.asp?whichpage=9&pagesize=20&sort=Country
: shows that the combined life (M&F) is 67.48, which is quite low.

Thanks anyway. If you happen to find the above mentioned Malaysia reference
later, please post it.

Signature

Juhana

monty1945@lycos.com - 22 Mar 2007 22:24 GMT
Here is my point made in 2002.  As I've said before, these points I am
making are not orginal, and are not being made by "alternative"
types.  Instead, they reflect the molecular-level evidence, as opposed
to the "epidemiological."  As any epidemiologist will tell you, if the
underlying assumptions used for an epidemiological study are
incorrect, the results can not only be inaccurate, but also misleading
in the extreme, which is why they are not really science, in that they
only deal with correlations, not causation.

Mutat Res. 2002 Sep 30;506-507:9-20.
"Comments on the history and importance of aromatic and heterocyclic
amines in public health."
Weisburger JH.
The carcinogenic risk of aromatic amines in humans was first
discovered when a physician related the occurrence of urinary bladder
cancer to the occupation of his patients. They were employed in the
dyestuff industry, chronically exposed to large amounts of
intermediate arylamines. Laboratory investigations disclosed that rats
and mice administered specific azo dyes arylamines or derivatives
developed cancer, primarily in the liver. Also, at that time, a
possible pesticide, 2-aminofluorene, was tested for chronic toxicity,
revealing that it rapidly induced cancers in several organs of
rodents. This led to investigations on the mode of action of this
class of chemicals, including their metabolic conversion. Biochemical
activation to more reactive N-hydroxy compounds was found to occur,
mostly in the liver, through what is now known as the cytochrome p450
enzyme systems, and also through prostaglandin synthetases. There were
species differences. Guinea pigs were resistant to carcinogenesis
because of the low titer of the necessary activating enzymes. In
target tissues, a second essential reaction was necessary, namely
acylation or sulfate ester formation. The reactive compounds produced
display attributes of genotoxicity in appropriate test systems.
Interest in this class of compounds increased when of Sugimura and
colleagues discovered the formation of mutagens at the surface of
cooked meat or fish, that were identified as heterocyclic amines
(HCAs). These compounds undergo the same type of activation reactions,
as do other arylamines. Epidemiological data suggest that meat eaters
may have a higher risk of breast and colon cancer. HCAs induced cancer
in rats in these organs and also in the prostate and the pancreas. In
addition, there is some evidence that they affect the vascular system.
The formation of HCAs during cooking can be decreased by natural and
synthetic antioxidants, by tryptophan or proline, or by removing the
essential creatine through brief microwave cooking prior to frying or
broiling. The amounts of HCAs in cooked foods are small, but other
components in diet such as omega-6-polyunsaturated oils have powerful
promoting effects in target organs of HCAs. On the other hand, the
action of HCAs may be decreased by foods containing antioxidants, such
as vegetables, soy, and tea. Some constituents in foods also induce
phase II enzymes that detoxify reactive HCA metabolites. Additional
mechanisms involved decreased growth of neoplasms by intake of
protective foods. Possibly, the carcinogenic effect of HCAs is
accompanied by the presence of reactive oxygen species (ROS), which
are also inhibited by antioxidants. World-wide, there have been many
contributors to knowledge in this field. Adequate information may
permit now to adjust lifestyle and lower the risk of human disease
stemming from this entire class of aryl and HCA.
MattLB - 23 Mar 2007 19:32 GMT
On Mar 22, 9:24 pm, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
> Here is my point made in 2002.

What point? You just pasted in an abstract. And why are you replying
to Juhana's post with something irrelevant to it?

>  Instead, they reflect the molecular-level evidence, as opposed
> to the "epidemiological."

Ahem. From the abstract you quoted: "Epidemiological data suggest that
meat eaters may have a higher risk of breast and colon cancer."

They seem to have no problem with epidemiological data so why are you
posting their abstract in an anti-epidemiology rant? Once again you
shoot yourself in the foot.

MattLB
Tom - 21 Mar 2007 18:37 GMT
Trans fats were used primarily because restauranters can maintain their
fried foods crispy longest among most fats.  A cooking fat widely used in
India and Japan (and maybe elsewhere in Asia) is rice bran oil.  It has a
high smoking point oil that is suitable for frying.  Besides, at least for
rats, it lowers cholesterol.   See

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050512110703.htm

I use it in lieu of canola oil, and my palate does not taste any difference.

Tom

http://www.everybody.co.nz/page-c194bc1b-010f-421d-921f-bccab7baf68c.aspx

Trans fats have gained a bad name because of their detrimental effects
on cardiovascular health and have been in the news because of the
actions of New York City and other US cities, which are banning them
from restaurant foods.

An industry response has been the development of so-called inter-
esterified fats (since you can't fry or make pastry without fat). Such
fats are typically made by first rearranging the location of fatty
acids on a natural fat (usually soybean oil) with enzymes, then
blending with naturally occurring saturated and unsaturated fats to
produce the desired consistency. One such a product is called
Novolipid®.

These fats are devoid of trans-fatty acids, which are so common in
hydrogenated ("hardened") fats. But studies performed over a mere four
weeks have found that use of such replacement fats by 30 healthy
adults produced a reduction in HDL "good" cholesterol levels and,
worse, a 20% rise in blood glucose level. The glucose effect was
traced to a fall in insulin action. The fats compared were palm oil
(saturated), partially hydrogenated soybean oil (containing trans-
fats), or inter-esterified soybean oil.

It appears it may be necessary to think again about this technological
fix. A buch better solution might be to change the food formulation so
natural fats can be used.

***

TC
Tunderbar - 21 Mar 2007 20:58 GMT
I use the real deal. Lard and tallow and evoo. Man, does it make food
taste good.

Pork fat rules.

TC

> Trans fats were used primarily because restauranters can maintain their
> fried foods crispy longest among most fats.  A cooking fat widely used in
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> TC
monty1945@lycos.com - 22 Mar 2007 01:02 GMT
"There isn't anyway for consumers to know if coconut oil has been
prepared in a safe manner, so people are better off avoiding it. "

That's what's great about coconut oil - you can tell by taste and
smell if it is okay, unlike the highly refined and highly unsaturated
oils.  In fact, there have been scandals in which the best and worst
quality olive oils have been blended together and sold as first cold
pressed, extra virgin.

"I have pointed out in previous posts that Malaysia suffers from
higher
CVD despite their high consumption of coconut oil."

One thing we've probably all seen are studies showing that when people
eat such "traditional" diets, then eat a Western diet, they do have
much higher rates of heart disease.  I have cited and quoted some of
these studies on my site.  Here is something worthy of note in this
context, from a study entitled "The Modernization of Asia:"

"...This region is undergoing unprecedented economic growth, rapid
technological changes, urbanization, and major changes in lifestyle.
The very high CHD death rates in Singapore (the most economically
developed country in the region), which are similar to those of the
United States and Australia, provide a warning that Asia may expect a
surge in CHD..."

Thus, if one just looks at epidemiological evidence, one can find
support for just about any position, in terms of "correlations" or
"associations."  In any case, usually what happens is that the people
eat diets much richer in highly refined, highly unsaturated oils when
switching over the the Western diet.  If you, Ron, disagree, then why
don't you take me up on my experimental offer?  Do you want this to be
an issue settled by the scientific method or do you just want to
adhere to your beliefs, without doing direct, on-point experiments?

Source:  Circulation. 1996;94:2671-2673.
© 1996 American Heart Association, Inc.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/94/11/2671

Note: Did you know, Ron, that Dr. Richard Stein, a spokesman for the
AHA, pointed out well over a year ago, that only oxidized LDL can
cause heart disease, and saturated fatty acids cannot oxidize anything
in a human biochemical context?  LDL that contains PUFAs, however, are
most easily oxidized.  Could you please simply acknowledge here that
you understand the implications of this (or that you do not)?
 
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