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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / February 2007a different view on inoculations
http://www.geocities.com/harpub/pitcairn.htm Images Of Poliomyelitis *** TC > http://www.geocities.com/harpub/pitcairn.htm This is from 1911. Not many people who were able to read back then are still able to read now. But while this article has great historical value (e.g., anti-vaccine bungholes were around back then, too), it has basically no scientific value or anything to add for parents who are deciding whether or not their kids should be vaccinated. The CDC provides much better information: http://www.cdc.gov/ (click on Vaccines and Immunizations). Have a lovely day, Jeff > >http://www.geocities.com/harpub/pitcairn.htm > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Jeff I thought that it was interesting in that vaccines are basically re- circulated and injected pus. TC >> >http://www.geocities.com/harpub/pitcairn.htm >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I thought that it was interesting in that vaccines are basically re- > circulated and injected pus. Vaccines are not "recirculated and injected pus." You need to join the 21st century. Vaccines sold in the US are made to FDA standards and have been proven to be safe and effective. The FDA did not even exist when the article was written. Have a lovely day, Jeff > TC > >> "TC" <tunder...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Jeff The concept is the same. Take pathogens (ie. pus) from a diseased animal. It could be from a pig, a cow, a chicken or a monkey, or even possibly from a human. Take an animal sourced medium to grow the pathogens in, could be from animal organs, animal serum or blood, or chicken eggs. Inoculate the medium and let the pathogens grow over time. Then weaken or kill them with some "chemical treatment". Then add any of the following as needed: adjuvants: Aluminium Squalene Freund's (FCA) MF59 preservatives: Alcohols Neomycin 2-phenoxyethanol (2-PE) Streptomycin Polymyxin B Mercury Formaldehyde Stabiliser/solvent: Tween 80 Since we get the original pathogens and the growth medium from animal sources, what other pathogens or organisms or organic matter end up in the final product? I don't think anyone knows. And what is the short- term and the long-term impacts of injecting foreign-species live and dead organic matter into our infants and the rest of the vaccinated population? They have not been proven to be safe or effective. not by a long shot. In order to prove effectiveness and safety, you would have to follow and document all people who were vaccinated for a long period of time and pro-actively document any and all adverse effects over the short and the long-term as well of any incidence of the disease vaccinated against. This has never, ever, been done. Anywhere. In the US or outside the US. The gov't and medical people who advocate for vaccines seem to be very adverse towards establishing a proper review mechanism. I wonder why? The only thing that has been done, is the general tracking of incidences of the disease being vaccinated against, and the data gathering and subsequent analysis has been very, very, suspect. Tracking of adverse effects has been pathetic at best and non-existent at worse. The oddest thing is that official diagnoses and names of diseases seem to change often in close co-incidence with mass vaccination campaigns. Poliomyelitis is apparently "eradicated", then we start seeing incidences of a new disease called meningococcal disease with very similar or identical symptoms to poliomyelitis. And oddly enough at the same frequency as we used to get polio. Vaccination is a crock, and a dangerous one at that. TC > The concept is the same. Concepts are different than implementations. <most of garbage deleted> > Vaccination is a crock, and a dangerous one at that. Vaccination has eliminated smallpox from the world. It has nearly eliminated polio, too. It has almost eliminated measles from most Western countries, although measles does show up in some communities with low vaccination rates. It has nearly eliminated Hib menigitis from the Western world in infants and kids. It has nearly ended rubella-related birth defects in the Western World. It has saved thousands of lives today, many from measles in thrid world countries. Jeff > TC > > The concept is the same. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Jeff You have great faith. faith being the operational word here because there is no real scientific evidence that supports what you just wrote. TC >> > The concept is the same. >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > TC This from a person who thinks a 96-year old article is relevent. Provide evidnece that smallpox is still going around. Explain why measles has disappeared from areas where there is high MMR vaccine coverage rates, but still is seen in areas where there is low coverage, including in developed nations. Explain why Hib menigitis rates suddenly went down after the vaccine was introduced. Explain why polio has all but disappeared from the western world. Back your claims. http://www.hhs.gov/nvpo/concepts/intro6.htm Jeff > >> "TC" <tunder...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > This from a person who thinks a 96-year old article is relevent. Why would it not be relevant? Even if to simply be educated as to the state of the science of vaccinations in those days or to be educated as to attitudes of those forcing pus vaccinations on everyone despite the poor state of the science at the time. And drawing direct comparisons between those pushing the piss-poor science of vaccinations on everyone then and now. There are very important similarities to be seen. Those who are ignorant of the past are condemned to make the same mistakes. That you feel that the history of medicine and their failures, and their very few successes, are irrelevant, shows just how short-sighted and naive you are about the world. There are many lessons we can learn about medicine from the history. Every thing that is new is not necessarily better or worse. Making assumptions either way is naive to the extreme. > Provide evidnece that smallpox is still going around. Prove that smallpox was irradicated solely due to vaccinations. It hasn't been proved, not by a long shot. You have faith that it has because you were taught that in school. But it was never proven. > Explain why measles > has disappeared from areas where there is high MMR vaccine coverage rates, Faith is why you believe that. Not science. > but still is seen in areas where there is low coverage, including in > developed nations. Explain why Hib menigitis rates suddenly went down after [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Polio has dissapeared and meningitis has appeared to take its place. The nomencalture was changed, but not the disease. TC <...> >> This from a person who thinks a 96-year old article is relevent. > > Why would it not be relevant? There article has nothing to do with avialble vaccines today. > Even if to simply be educated as to the state of the science of > vaccinations in those days or to be educated as to attitudes of those > forcing pus vaccinations on everyone despite the poor state of the > science at the time. And drawing direct comparisons between those > pushing the piss-poor science of vaccinations on everyone then and > now. There are very important similarities to be seen. The article doesn't deal with the science vaccines today. > Those who are ignorant of the past are condemned to make the same > mistakes. That you feel that the history of medicine and their > failures, and their very few successes, are irrelevant, shows just how > short-sighted and naive you are about the world. There are many > lessons we can learn about medicine from the history. Not with an article out of context. > Every thing that is new is not necessarily better or worse. Making > assumptions either way is naive to the extreme. I didn't make any assumptions about something being better or worse. >> Provide evidnece that smallpox is still going around. > > Prove that smallpox was irradicated solely due to vaccinations. When did I claim that is the case? > It > hasn't been proved, not by a long shot. You have faith that it has > because you were taught that in school. But it was never proven. Let's see: Smallpox vaccine causes antibodies to be formed. Those antibodies prevent transmission of smallpox. >> Explain why measles >> has disappeared from areas where there is high MMR vaccine coverage >> rates, > > Faith is why you believe that. Not science. Actually, science alone. Measles vaccine causes the production of protective antibodies. Measles is not seen in areas that are properly vaccinated. However, areas in the developed world where there is not adequate vaccination rates do have outbreaks, but not areas that have proper protection. >> but still is seen in areas where there is low coverage, including in >> developed nations. Explain why Hib menigitis rates suddenly went down [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Polio has dissapeared and meningitis has appeared to take its place. > The nomencalture was changed, but not the disease. Nice try. Polio is a disease caused by a particular group of viruses. Those viruses do not cause dieseae in the US and most other developed countries, because the virus is no longer present in those countries. Menigitis did not take the place of polio. Menigitis was there all along. When you get a clue, please let me know. Until then, I will not waste my time replying to your ignorant comments in this thread. Jeff > TC > <...> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > There article has nothing to do with avialble vaccines today. But it illustrates the mindset of those wanting to make money from it. > > Even if to simply be educated as to the state of the science of > > vaccinations in those days or to be educated as to attitudes of those [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The article doesn't deal with the science vaccines today. The language is the same, the intent is the same, the paternalistic know-it-all attitude of the medical people are the same. the faith in their state of the science pus-inoculation is the same. And the follow up to mass vaccinations is the same. there are a lot of common threads here. > > Those who are ignorant of the past are condemned to make the same > > mistakes. That you feel that the history of medicine and their [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Not with an article out of context. The context was that they were vacinnating everybody they could get their hands on, regardless of any possibility of adverse effects or any questions of safety and efficacy. They were mandating, by law, universal vaccinations. That is the context. Sound familiar? > > Every thing that is new is not necessarily better or worse. Making > > assumptions either way is naive to the extreme. > > I didn't make any assumptions about something being better or worse. You said "This from a person who thinks a 96-year old article is relevent.". What the f.ck is that if it is not making a blanket assumption that a 96 year old article is irrelvant and newer articles are better or that old observations are irrelevant and new observations are better by virtue of when they were observed. Quit trying to backpedal your way out of that one. > >> Provide evidnece that smallpox is still going around. > > > Prove that smallpox was irradicated solely due to vaccinations. > > When did I claim that is the case? You implied it. > > It > > hasn't been proved, not by a long shot. You have faith that it has > > because you were taught that in school. But it was never proven. > > Let's see: Smallpox vaccine causes antibodies to be formed. Those antibodies > prevent transmission of smallpox. Have you ever considered that smallpox antibodies indicate immunity, while HIV antibodies indicate infection? Can you reconcile that little fact? > >> Explain why measles > >> has disappeared from areas where there is high MMR vaccine coverage [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > vaccination rates do have outbreaks, but not areas that have proper > protection. Bullshit. Proof? > >> but still is seen in areas where there is low coverage, including in > >> developed nations. Explain why Hib menigitis rates suddenly went down [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Jeff Check the two disease side by side. Same symptoms, stated with slightly different language. Same long-term effects too. Did you know that when immunized people get the disease, the vaccination is termed "unsuccessful", so they immunize again. In some statistics a single vaccination was often counted as un-vaccinated because it was then determined to be "unsuccessful". That fudged the numbers pretty good. And in many cases, when a vaccinated victim reported that they got the disease, they were not believed because they were assumed to be immune. They weren't counted because, by logic, they could not have gotten the disease. They were either ignored in the stats or they were diagnosed with a different but similar disease. And in some cases, many cases, the vaccination determined the name of the disease. if they were vaccinated for polio and got symptoms, they were called meningitis. it they were not vaccinated for polio and got the symptoms, they were called polio. Hence, vaccines always work. By definition. Not a single attempt at mass vaccination were ever publicly seen to fail. Even Pasteur's first vaccination of livestock for rabies that killed 1/3 of the flocks vaccinated were declared a success. And that continues today. TC |
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