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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / January 2007

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Cancer Death Rates

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GMCarter - 28 Jan 2007 16:01 GMT
This underscores the point that an effect may appear to be
statistically significant (though come to think of it, I'm not sure
whether the mortality decline in cancer deaths is stat sig) but
clinically meaningless.

        George M. Carter

**
http://www.cancerdecisions.com/012807.html
CANCER DEATH RATE DRAMA

The US cancer death rate declined by one-half of one percent between
2003 and 2004...and the world went wild. In fact, on January 17, 2007,
President Bush paid a rare visit to the National Institutes of Health
(NIH) in Bethesda, MD, to bask in the reflected glory of this alleged
turning point in the war on cancer.

"Progress is being made," Bush claimed, after attending a roundtable
discussion with cancer scientists. "We're spending about $28.6 billion
here at the NIH, which was doubled from 15 years ago." However, the
President failed to mention the equally significant fact that his
administration has cut the National Cancer Institute's (NCI) budget by
approximately $72 million between fiscal years 2005 and 2007.

Bush called the decline in cancer deaths "the steepest drop ever
recorded." While technically true, this statement gives the
unmistakable - and misleading - impression that the decline in the
number of deaths was both dramatic and precipitous. This is not the
case at all. As the respected weekly Cancer Letter trenchantly pointed
out, the number of cancer deaths had either risen or remained the
same, on a year by year basis, for over 70 years since record-keeping
began. Meanwhile, the widely trumpeted decline in US cancer deaths
amounted to only a few thousand - a fraction of a percentage point of
the overall toll taken by cancer in 2004. And in 2003 the fall was
even smaller, amounting to less than four hundred fewer deaths. Yet on
the announcement of that minuscule drop, also, scientists made a
self-congratulatory mountain out of a statistical molehill.

This year, the leaders of the cancer war, accompanied by legions of
enablers in the mainstream media, seemed to lose all sense of
proportion. This was "big news," they intoned, "very exciting;" we've
"finally turned the corner," it is "highly gratifying," "no fluke,"
and so on. John R. Seffrin, PhD, chief executive officer of the
American Cancer Society (ACS), said, "The hard work towards preventing
cancer, catching it early, and making treatment more effective is
paying dramatic, lifesaving dividends." Wow! That's a heavy burden of
unwarranted assumptions to place on the shoulders of such a small
change in mortality statistics.

Dr. Ahmedin Jemal, the epidemiologist who prepared the report for the
ACS, declared that the decline "is not only continuing, but the
decrease [in 2004] is much larger" [than that recorded for the
previous year, 2003].

But "much larger" is a relative term. According to the figures
released by the American Cancer Society (ACS) there were 553,888 US
deaths from cancer in 2004. This compared somewhat favorably to the
556,902 cancer deaths in 2003. 2004's figure thus represented a
decline of 3,014 deaths, just over half of one percentage point. In
2003, by comparison, there were 557,271 deaths, just 369 fewer than
2002's total.

While any drop in cancer mortality is certainly good news, we have to
ask whether the small declines recorded in these two successive years
represent some decisive turning point in the war on cancer (as nearly
everyone has unquestioningly assumed) or whether it may simply be a
statistical glitch in an otherwise unremittingly grim picture. Are we
seeing "light at the end of the tunnel," as Larry Norton, MD, of
Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, New York, told Public
Broadcasting System's Jim Lehrer or could it be the headlight of an
approaching train?

Of course, politicians of all stripes were quick to seize the
opportunity and exploit it to the full. However, it remains to be seen
whether this tentative two-year trend (spanning the years 2002-2004)
will be sustained into the present day. While I join in appreciating
each and every extra life that is not lost to cancer, there are good
reasons for skepticism about the self-congratulatory mood that has
overtaken the oncology profession in the light of this news.

For example, one need look no further than the American Cancer
Society's own recently-released publication, 2007 Cancer Facts &
Figures, an annual review that gives a good statistical projection for
cancer incidence and mortality in the current year. For 2007, the ACS
projects a cancer death figure of 559,650. But wait a minute. Isn't
this actually 5,762 more deaths than those recorded for the year 2004,
the year that triggered the recent Presidential celebration?

According to statistics given in consecutive editions of Cancer Facts
& Figures, which are available online, US cancer deaths for the last
five years were as follows:

2002 557,650
2003 556,902 (a decline of 369 over previous year)
2004 553,888 (a decline of 3,014 over previous year)
2005 570,280 (an estimated increase of 16,392 over previous year)
2006 564,830 (an estimated decline of 5,450 over previous year)
2007 559,650 (an estimated decline of 5,180 over previous year)

Perhaps there is some logical explanation for the steep increase in
2005, although I have yet to see one. One is hard pressed to find
anyone who has even noticed this less than encouraging projection,
although such statistics are easily available at the ACS Web site
(www.cancer.org). I came across only one publication that pointed out
this discrepancy: the SeniorJournal.com, which tracks trends of
interest to Baby Boomers (see below). The SeniorJounal's headline
read: "Cancer Society Predicts Cancer Deaths to Increase in 2007
Despite Long Rate of Decline." This seems to me to be a more accurate
and newsworthy way of reporting the story. Yes, the absolute number of
US cancer deaths did decline a little between 2002 and 2004; however,
this year's projected death toll is already more than it was at the
end of 2003. Unfortunately, this inconvenient fact does not fit the
propaganda needs of those who are committed to the notion that we are
making slow but steady progress in the war on cancer. By and large,
the media latched uncritically onto the ACS and NCI press releases,
and ignored any inconvenient truth that might disturb the rosy picture
that these organizations systematically project.

(The issue may be further clouded by the fact that in 2006, ACS
statisticians modified their method of tallying cancer mortality. They
claim that they now utilize a new and more accurate method of
projecting mortality figures, including a larger sample that includes
86 percent of the population. One can only be thankful for improved
scientific record keeping. But I read no analyses claiming this new
method affected estimates of the overall cancer death rate.)

If the projected 2007 figures prove accurate, as those for previous
years generally have, then the alleged "turnaround" in the cancer
mortality figures between 2002 and 2004 will turn out to have been a
temporary phenomenon, a statistical hiccup that, absent the political
agendas of the various key players, would normally have passed without
notice outside of a narrow circle of biostatisticians.
Enter the Baby Boomers

There are also other reasons for skepticism. It is no secret that
cancer is primarily a disease of one's later years. According to
government (SEER) data, the median age of US cancer patients at death
is 73 years. Of course, this varies by tumor type as well as other
factors: for example, the average age at death is 69 years for breast
cancer, 71 for lung cancer, 75 for cancers of the colon and rectum,
etc. Ethnicity is also relevant: for example, African-Americans in
general die of cancer at a younger age than so-called Caucasians.

All other things being equal, however, a nation's death tally from
cancer largely depends on the age of its population. Put another way,
the larger the senior citizen segment of the population, the more
cancer deaths there will be overall.

As is well known, a great many people alive today were born in the
post-World War II era, between 1946 and 1958. They are collectively
known as the Baby Boom generation. (Some experts now contend that the
definition of this postwar generation should be expanded to include
people born through 1964.) This cohort began when GIs returned from
the War and the US economy expanded rapidly. The birth rate during
this period was more than 50 percent greater than for the preceding
generation, which was born during the Depression years. In fact, there
were over 79 million babies born into the Baby Boom generation.

In the next few years, as these Baby Boomers enter their senior years,
cancer incidence will also tend to increase. In about ten to fifteen
years, the Baby Boomers will start to die of the diseases of old age,
including, of course, cancer. The impact of such demographics will
then be solidly felt on national mortality figures for cancer, as well
as other diseases. Thus, unless something changes radically in the
sphere of cancer treatment or prevention, we can expect that there
will be a steady upturn in the overall cancer death statistics,
coinciding with the aging of the Boomer generation, and that this will
continue for a decade or longer.

The reality of rising cancer mortality figures in an aging population
will hit us hard, and it is something for which our leaders appear
unprepared, both intellectually and practically. It is likely to make
all the current talk about the decline in cancer mortality, and the
conquest of cancer, sound increasingly hollow.

Signature
--Ralph W. Moss, Ph.D.
monty1945@lycos.com - 28 Jan 2007 21:24 GMT
It's more about the "issue business," apparently.  Those in power want
to talk about the great job they are doing on an issue (such as cancer
mortality), and then the media plays it up, but then there is a more
close examination, and then there are articles like this one.  
Obviously, a "much ado about nothing" situation, but how much
intellectual energy is used up by the process?

As an aside, Mr. Carter, why don't you quote "AIDS deaths" statistics
in those same years, and also tell us who is generating and keeping
those statistics?
monty1945@lycos.com - 28 Jan 2007 22:40 GMT
Just to be clear, I am talking about "AIDS deaths" in the USA only.
GMCarter - 29 Jan 2007 00:00 GMT
>Just to be clear, I am talking about "AIDS deaths" in the USA only.

LOL....fine! There are ample data from the US and Europe showing that
mortality related to AIDS has dropped steadily over the past decade.
Largely because people have access to new antiretroviral drugs.

They are not a cure. They have side effects--sometimes pretty horrible
ones. The pharmaceutical industry as usual rapes every last dime out
of people for those drugs (that very often NIH FUNDED the R&D for).

So I'm not sure what your point is...but it doesn't much matter.

        George M. Carter
monty1945@lycos.com - 29 Jan 2007 01:08 GMT
Mr. Carter:  Can you answer simple questions?  What are the statistics
and who is generating them and publishing them?  Surely if you can't
provide this much, you don't expect anyone to take what you have to
say about this subject seriously.  I already know - I want you to
answer these questions.  I will not explain my motivations, aside from
the obvious.
GMCarter - 29 Jan 2007 12:54 GMT
>Mr. Carter:  Can you answer simple questions?  What are the statistics
>and who is generating them and publishing them?

Mr. Monty, these aren't simple questions--they're loaded with
bullshit.

If I provide you statistics from CDC or WHO, you'll simply say they're
making them up. So what's the point?

You'll believe whatever psychotic fantasies suit you.

Meanwhile, I don't rely on statistics alone. I work with actual human
beings living with HIV disease. In many places in the world.

        George M. Carter
monty1945@lycos.com - 30 Jan 2007 01:11 GMT
You can assume what you like, Mr. Carter.  I am willing to test my
claims (if someone wants to fund them) in a way that adheres to the
scientific method, so if you that that is a "psychotic" notion, so be
it.

I asked a simiple question about US "AIDS deaths."  It sounds like you
are saying that the CDC is doing the research that they then have
published as annual "AIDS deaths."  Is this so?  I don't think you are
claiming that people from the WHO are doing anything more than
publishing what they are given, but again, my question is what agency
is actually compiling the numbers?
spamfree@spam.heaven - 30 Jan 2007 03:35 GMT
>You can assume what you like, Mr. Carter.  I am willing to test my
>claims (if someone wants to fund them) in a way that adheres to the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>publishing what they are given, but again, my question is what agency
>is actually compiling the numbers?

Questions here are to elicit information, not to test people. You are
not our teacher. If you know, say so and make your point. Making
spurious points around people not being willing to play your game are
surely invalid.

jack
monty1945@lycos.com - 30 Jan 2007 05:50 GMT
Jack:

I have encountered "Mr. Carter" on this and other newsgroups, and he
usually refuses to answer basic questions, yet clearly acts like an
"expert."  He often uses obscentities, and thinks that he can brow
beat everyone into believing his non-scientific notions.  Even if he
were correct in everything he claimed, this would be an inappropriate
way to respond.  I wanted to see if he knew, and if not, what he would
say.

As to the question at hand, see: http://www.kff.org/hivaids/us.cfm

Ask yourself two basic questions:  what interests are represented by
"The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation," and why are they generating
the statistics?

In any case, I'm not disputing that what gets classified as "AIDS
deaths" in the USA differs from what they say.  The key point is this:
people like Mr. Carter claim that "AIDS deaths" have declined
dramatically because of the "miracle drugs."  Yet, for example, in
newspaper articles about the so-called "new strain" of "HIV" in New
York City (over a year ago), the point was made that a large majority
of people "infected with HIV" in the USA do not even know that they
are, and also that the "miracle drugs" extend life by about 18 months
to 2 years.  Now if we can all at least agree that there is a huge
number of people "infected with HIV," and that most don't know it, and
that even if they do, and take the drugs (which often have terrible
side effects, leading many to stop taking them), they are only going
to live another 2 years or so, there should be a lot more deaths each
year in the USA from "HIV/AIDS," probably at least ten times the
amount, if not more.  Add up the numbers yourself, Jack, and you will
see that this is simple mathematics.  People like Mr. Carter will not
address such points, but instead resort to using obscentities.

However, if he or any other supporter or the "HIV/AIDS" notion is
willing to be forthcoming, as you, Jack, demand of me, then let us get
to the heart of the issue:

1.  Are the "experts" incorrect when they claim that most "HIV
infected people" in the USA do not know that they are?

2.  Are the "experts" incorrect when they claim that with the "miracle
drugs" people will live about 2 years longer?

3.  If the "experts" are correct, then how is it possible for there to
be so few "AIDS deaths" in the USA over the last few years?

Before I made these points, I wanted to establish that "Mr. Carter"
either does not know the most basic of "HIV/AIDS" information, or that
he will not disclose this information, even though he acts as if he is
a foremost "AIDS expert" in many if not most of his newsgroup posts on
this issue.

Can we have an intelligent discussion on this topic, Jack?
monty1945@lycos.com - 30 Jan 2007 06:40 GMT
If you want to consider the actual numbers, go to: http://www.kff.org/
hivaids/upload/3029-071.pdf

Now they are saying there are about 1.2 million "infected with HIV,"
with 400,000 in full-blown "AIDS," and 40,000 newly "infected" each
year.  Their numbers are that up to 59% are not being "cared for," and
that 25% don't know.  Yet there are 17,011 "AIDS deaths" in 2005.

This foundation made the following statement for their June 1999
publication:

QUOTE: Due primarily to advances in treatment for HIV, the
number of AIDS-related deaths in the US in 1997 (the
most recent year for which data are available) was only
about half that of 1996 (16,685 compared to 31,130, a
decline of 46%).  UNQUOTE.

In the same publication, they say that 1 in 300 Americans,
approximately, are "living with HIV," as well as that: "The estimated
number of new HIV infections occurring
each year in the US has stabilized in recent years at approximately
41,000."

What, exactly, is the amount of time it takes to "die of AIDS?"  In
the mid 1980s, they claimed it took a couple of years, give or take a
bit, depending upon who was making the claim and exactly when it was
made.  After that, it was said to take a year or so to "die of AIDS."  
If this is the same "pathogen," how could this period of time change
significantly?  Since, according to this foundation, between about a
third and a quarter of those "infected with HIV" don't know, and many
are not willing to take the drugs as prescribed, the numbers do not
make sense.  Even if we assume that the period to "progression to
AIDS" takes about a decade, which is roughly the new claim, how can
these statistics be possible?  There is no claim that only a few
hundred people were "infected with HIV" in the early 1990s, but rather
that tens of thousands were, and so they should be dying now, and the
number of deaths should be at least the same amount said to be
"infected" each year, since the "epidemic" has been ongoing since the
early 1980s.  In fact, a very high percentage of the "AIDS deaths" are
due to the side effects from the drugs (such as liver failure), so
where are all the deaths from that large percentage of those who don't
know that they are "infected with HIV?"

So what do we have to consider, number-wise?  About 40,000 new
"infections" each year, for the last several years, though there is a
claim that those numbers were conisderably higher previously, due to
the incredible "miracle drugs" that few take as prescribed, many might
try, but don't because they don't know that they are "infected," and
that a handful of true believers take as prescribed.  It is said to
take a bit more than a decade to succumb to this "retrovirus," and
that the "miracle drugs" somehow extend life a couple of years
(apparently, their mechanism is by doing things like destroying livers
- go figure).  Obviously, there should be a lot more "deaths from
AIDS" by now, if these statistics are remotely close to being
accurate.  But try to get an "expert" to explain these impossible
numbers and you will get more ludicrious claims and/or obscentities
(if you are able to get any response at all).
GMCarter - 30 Jan 2007 12:47 GMT
>If you want to consider the actual numbers, go to: http://www.kff.org/hivaids/upload/3029-071.pdf

And then you spew out your deranged, misinformed nonsense.

So at least you did the work to find some data that you could "refute"
in your very imitable fashion.

And sadly, it leaves you just being a kook.

I hope you find some funding for your research. But really, just get
"infected" and you will see what happens to your "CD4 cells" and how
long it takes you in particular to develop "opportunistic infections"
and "die" if you don't take the "drugs."

        George M. Carter
GMCarter - 30 Jan 2007 12:44 GMT
>You can assume what you like, Mr. Carter.  I am willing to test my
>claims (if someone wants to fund them)

LOL.
Jim Chinnis - 30 Jan 2007 16:44 GMT
GMCarter <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in part:

>>You can assume what you like, Mr. Carter.  I am willing to test my
>>claims (if someone wants to fund them)
>
>LOL.

Someone would be happy to fund him to do that if he were competent to do the
research and write a proposal. That's how it works.
--
Jim Chinnis  Warrenton, Virginia, USA  jchinnis@alum.mit.edu
GMCarter - 31 Jan 2007 11:40 GMT
>GMCarter <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in part:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Someone would be happy to fund him to do that if he were competent to do the
>research and write a proposal. That's how it works.

Partly, yes. Partly though, research funding happens when one is lucky
enough to get well-disposed reviewers who are having a good day and
don't have a bug up their a.s.

It's a bit like peer review: a lot more arbitrary than folks would
like to admit. Given the Congressional (and Bush: f.ck him very much)
flat funding of NIH, competition is even more fierce, while money is
squandered on big ticket projects.

By contast, even in the best of worlds with lots of money and a higher
rate of success for applications, I suspect Monty would still find a
tough row to hoe for his inchoate ideas. Maybe if he'd been able to
ask Mengele, he'd've had a better chance.

        George M. Carter
Roman Bystrianyk - 30 Jan 2007 17:57 GMT
What might be found interesting from 1900 to 1990 the cancer mortality
rate more than tripled from approximately 60 per 100,000 to 200 per
100,000.

http://www.healthsentinel.com/graphs.php?
id=22&event=graphs_print_list_item

> This underscores the point that an effect may appear to be
> statistically significant (though come to think of it, I'm not sure
[quoted text clipped - 172 lines]
> Signature
> --Ralph W. Moss, Ph.D.
monty1945@lycos.com - 30 Jan 2007 21:19 GMT
I will simply address one point in this post, and that is that either
the "HIV/AIDS experts'" claims cannot be correct, or else the
statistics are wrong by a wide margin.  If you add up all the people
who have been "infected with HIV" since about 1980, and then use an
average "latency period" that the "experts" would agree with, there
should be a lot more "AIDS deaths" than the statistics presented claim
to be the case, even if you take all kinds of other factors into
account, which is certainly reasonable.   1 in 300 Americans are
supposedly "infected with HIV" now, and this statistic has been
similar for several years now, and going back more than a decade, what
could the number have been, 1 in 500, 1 in 1000?  It does not matter,
because by now, there should be a lot more than 17,000 or so "AIDS
deaths" per year.  By now, a minimum of around 150,000 deaths a year
would be a reasonable number to expect, and that is taking into
account the "miracle" of the "AIDS cocktail."  If others wish to be
unreasonable, or to simply ignore this glaring inconsistency, so be
it.  But there is stands, and it cannot be erased from the historical
record.  Rebecca Culshaw has a Ph.D. in using statistics to create
medical/biological models, and she was led by her research to conclude
that the "HIV/AIDS" claims are a stasticial impossibility.  Note that
I did not read her new book, and I don't know exactly what she
studied; rather, I decided to examine the numbers for myself.  I am
more interested in understanding health and "disease" at the molecular
level, but I was curious, and decided to take a look at the numbers
that are presented to the public about "HIV/AIDS" in the USA.
spamfree@spam.heaven - 31 Jan 2007 06:47 GMT
>I will simply address one point in this post, and that is that either
>the "HIV/AIDS experts'" claims cannot be correct, or else the
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>level, but I was curious, and decided to take a look at the numbers
>that are presented to the public about "HIV/AIDS" in the USA.

So you reckon there are not enough AIDS deaths to reconcile with the
stats of people who have, and those who don't know they have?

How many families put pneumonia, cancer, or leukemia on the death
certificate? I know of two such examples of prominent people who have
died of "leukemia". Their lifestyles were not widely known and their
familes wanted it kept that way. I know one prominent person who died
very publicly of aids after a 20 year battle. He was a hemophilliac.
Then there are the folk who don't know they have the virus, and never
sero convert, so they would only know if they were tested.
There are so many inaccuracies in statistics like this. I guess that
there might be some stats that are massaged for some agenda, but not
ALL of them IMHO.

jack
spamfree@spam.heaven - 31 Jan 2007 07:29 GMT
>What might be found interesting from 1900 to 1990 the cancer mortality
>rate more than tripled from approximately 60 per 100,000 to 200 per
>100,000.

And what is the average age of onset of these cancers?
What are the average ages of adult deaths in these two groups?

jack
Roman Bystrianyk - 31 Jan 2007 13:44 GMT
On Jan 31, 2:29 am, spamf...@spam.heaven wrote:
> On 30 Jan 2007 09:57:05 -0800, "Roman Bystrianyk"
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> jack

That's a very good point.  I don't have those statistics at this
time.  I will look into finding the death rate per age group for
cancer.  If, for example, deaths in 20-30, 30-40 year olds had greatly
increased then it would be reasonable to assume that external factors
are involved in increased cancer deaths.  If not, then we can be more
confident that an aging population would be more of a factor.
However, discounting child mortality in the first part of the 1900s
there hasn't been a huge gain in life expectancy as if often assumed.
For example if you reached 20 years of age in 1950 you could expect to
live to be about 71 years old and in 1998 (50 years later) about 76 -
not a massive increase at all.

http://www.healthsentinel.com/graphs.php?id=41&event=graphs_print_list_item
 
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