http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/health/1500AP_Diet_Obesity_Microbes.html
Wednesday, December 20, 2006 · Last updated 10:13 a.m. PT
Weight may be linked to type of bacteria
By SETH BORENSTEIN
AP SCIENCE WRITER
WASHINGTON -- The size of your gut may be partly shaped by which
microbes call it home, according to new research linking obesity to
types of digestive bacteria.
Both obese mice - and people - had more of one type of bacteria and
less of another kind, according to two studies published Thursday in
the journal Nature.
A "microbial component" appears to contribute to obesity, said study
lead author Jeffrey Gordon, director of Washington University's Center
for Genome Sciences.
Obese humans and mice had a lower percentage of a family of bacteria
called Bacteroidetes and more of a type of bacteria called Firmicutes,
Gordon and his colleagues found.
The researchers aren't sure if more Firmicutes makes you fat or if
people who are obese grow more of that type of bacteria.
But growing evidence of this link gives scientists a potentially new
and still distant way of fighting obesity: Change the bacteria in the
intestines and stomach. It also may lead to a way of fighting
malnutrition in the developing world.
Nikhil Dhurandhar, a professor of infection and obesity at Louisiana
State University's Pennington Biomedical Research Center, wasn't part
of the research, but said it may change the way obesity is treated
eventually.
"We are getting more and more evidence to show that obesity isn't what
we thought it used to be," Dhurandhar said. "It isn't just (that)
you're eating too much and you're lazy."
He said the field of "infectobesity" looks at obesity with multiple
causes, including viruses and microbes. In another decade or so, the
different causes of obesity could have different treatments. The
current regimen of diet and exercise "is like treating all fevers with
one aspirin," Dhurandhar said.
In one study, Gordon and colleagues looked at what happened in mice
with changes in bacteria level. When lean mice with no germs in their
guts had larger ratios of Firmicutes transplanted, they got "twice as
fat" and took in more calories from the same amount of food than mice
with the more normal bacteria ratio, said Washington University
microbiology instructor Ruth Ley, a study co-author.
It was as if one group got far more calories from the same bowl of
Cheerios than the other, Gordon said.
In a study of dozen dieting people, the results also were dramatic.
Before dieting, about 3 percent of the gut bacteria in the obese
participants was Bacteroidetes. But after dieting, the now normal-sized
people had much higher levels of Bacteroidetes - close to 15 percent,
Gordon said.
"I think that gut bacteria affects body weight," said Virginia
Commonwealth University pathology professor Richard Atkinson, who
wasn't part of the research team and is president of Obetech Obesity
Research Center in Richmond. "I don't think there's any doubt about
that and they showed that."
The growing field of research puts more importance in the trillions of
microbes that live in our guts and elsewhere, crediting it with
everything from generations of people getting taller to increases in
diabetes and asthma.
People are born germ-free, but within days they have a gut blooming
with microbes. The microbes come from first foods - either breast milk
or formula - the exterior environment, and the way the babies are born,
said Stanford University medicine and microbiology professor David
Relman, who was not part of the study.
For decades, doctors have treated bacteria in a "warlike" manner, yet
recent research shows that "most encounters we have with microbes are
very beneficial," Gordon said.
"Much of who we are and what we can do and can't do as human beings is
directly related to microbial inhabitants," Relman said.
---
I guess it never occurred to these advanced degree pinheads that a diet
high in grains, refined carbs and sugars, will tend to cause a
different gut flora than, let's say, a diet with more real food.
Do we treat the marker, ie. gut flora, or do we alter the diet to
correct the gut flora?
Soon some pharmaceutical company will come up with gut flora reseedeers
and reconditioners that will make you thin, only $299.99 for three
months worth and four pages of small print side effects.
TC
coonskin@amestwp.com - 21 Dec 2006 00:36 GMT
Having an intrest in the topic for another reason, I looked at the full
online original 2 articles, there were two overlapping themes. We can
answer the below now:
"I guess it never occurred to these advanced degree pinheads that a diet
high in grains, refined carbs and sugars, will tend to cause a different
gut flora than, let's say, a diet with more real food."
Actually it occur to them, in the human subjects they had either a high
fat low carb diet or high carb low fat diet. Does one detect envy in
this question?
"Do we treat the marker, ie. gut flora, or do we alter the diet to
correct the gut flora?"
Neither because the two diets had the same results in bacteria ratios
over time with loss of weight.
"Soon some pharmaceutical company will come up with gut flora reseedeers
and reconditioners that will make you thin, only $299.99 for three
months worth and four pages of small print side effects."
Why pay, just lose weight and achieve the same effect. Because they
introduced the low or high weight bacteria into newborn bacteria free
rodents and they gained weight or had normal weight accordingly, it does
suggest that external introduction and maintainance of the right
bacteria might have a positive effect.
The difference in the bacteria was how efficient they were in converting
otherwise unusable calories into a form humans can absorb. The fat
related bacteria were much more efficient in doing the conversion.
In times of low food supply the human body has adaptations which kick in
to conserve and/or store calories more efficiently, or maybe get fat if
the body is faked into thinking food is short. I wonder if there is a
feedback loop to the gut to signal for greater "fat" bacteria increase
and less "lean" bacteria as another of these adaptations?
spamfree@spam.heaven - 09 Jan 2007 04:25 GMT
>In times of low food supply the human body has adaptations which kick in
>to conserve and/or store calories more efficiently, or maybe get fat if
>the body is faked into thinking food is short. I wonder if there is a
>feedback loop to the gut to signal for greater "fat" bacteria increase
>and less "lean" bacteria as another of these adaptations?
Of course, bacteria will follow the substrate they are supplied with.
So any signalling will need to change the substrate. jack
NoOption5L@aol.com - 21 Dec 2006 03:11 GMT
> I guess it never occurred to these advanced degree pinheads that a diet
> high in grains, refined carbs and sugars, will tend to cause a
> different gut flora than, let's say, a diet with more real food.
Like whole grains, fruits, nuts, meat, spices, dairy, veggies, seeds
and eggs.
> Do we treat the marker, ie. gut flora, or do we alter the diet to
> correct the gut flora?
> Soon some pharmaceutical company will come up with gut flora reseedeers
> and reconditioners that will make you thin, only $299.99 for three
> months worth and four pages of small print side effects.
Eating a little yogurt ocassionally is always a good start and I'll bet
a little bit cheaper than the flora reseeder pills. Or any of these
magical weight-loss potions:
Anyone seen this commercial? It's a gem! The first time I saw it I
thought it was a comedy skit, that is until they started asking for a
credit card.
http://www.lipozene.com/
http://lipozene.dietpilladvisor.com/
Yep, no need to exercise, control your portion sizes or eat healthy
foods. Just pop a pill and you'll soon look like an athlete and/or
model.
Patrick
TC - 21 Dec 2006 14:40 GMT
> > I guess it never occurred to these advanced degree pinheads that a diet
> > high in grains, refined carbs and sugars, will tend to cause a
> > different gut flora than, let's say, a diet with more real food.
>
> Like whole grains, fruits, nuts, meat, spices, dairy, veggies, seeds
> and eggs.
And meats and bone broth soupd and lots of healthy animal fats.
> > Do we treat the marker, ie. gut flora, or do we alter the diet to
> > correct the gut flora?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> a little bit cheaper than the flora reseeder pills. Or any of these
> magical weight-loss potions:
So you think that treating the gut flora will correct the bad diet that
caused it?
> Anyone seen this commercial? It's a gem! The first time I saw it I
> thought it was a comedy skit, that is until they started asking for a
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Patrick
NoOption5L@aol.com - 06 Jan 2007 02:11 GMT
> > > I guess it never occurred to these advanced degree pinheads that a diet
> > > high in grains, refined carbs and sugars, will tend to cause a
> > > different gut flora than, let's say, a diet with more real food.
> > Like whole grains, fruits, nuts, meat, spices, dairy, veggies, seeds
> > and eggs.
> And meats and bone broth soupd and lots of healthy animal fats.
I already wrote meats.
I would never recommend lots of animals fats. As I noted in the past,
wild game is very lean -- much leaner than our farm animals. And I
doubt early humans were very sucessful big game hunters, with most
"meat" coming from small rodents, reptiles, birds, and eggs.
> > > Do we treat the marker, ie. gut flora, or do we alter the diet to
> > > correct the gut flora?
> > > Soon some pharmaceutical company will come up with gut flora reseedeers
> > > and reconditioners that will make you thin, only $299.99 for three
> > > months worth and four pages of small print side effects.
> > Eating a little yogurt ocassionally is always a good start and I'll bet
> > a little bit cheaper than the flora reseeder pills. Or any of these
> > magical weight-loss potions:
> So you think that treating the gut flora will correct the bad diet that
> caused it?
Prevention is worth a pound of cure.
> > Anyone seen this commercial? It's a gem! The first time I saw it I
> > thought it was a comedy skit, that is until they started asking for a
> > credit card.
> > http://www.lipozene.com/
> > http://lipozene.dietpilladvisor.com/
> > Yep, no need to exercise, control your portion sizes or eat healthy
> > foods. Just pop a pill and you'll soon look like an athlete and/or
> > model.
Patrick
AWilliamson - 24 Dec 2006 14:24 GMT
>Both obese mice - and people - had more of one type of bacteria and
>less of another kind, according to two studies published Thursday in
>the journal Nature.
Very interesting news report. Saw it on the TV.
Amy
email:williamson@shaklee.net
Nature and Science in Harmony
http://www.shaklee.net/williamson/
spamfree@spam.heaven - 09 Jan 2007 04:04 GMT
>I guess it never occurred to these advanced degree pinheads
You really have a problem with science, don't you.
> that a diet
>high in grains, refined carbs and sugars,
That is a strange combination to pick on?
The first is excellent food, and the latter two are empty calories
that should be strongly limited in affluent communities.
>will tend to cause a
>different gut flora than, let's say, a diet with more real food.
Of course, different substrates wil support diferent flora. One is not
bad, and one good, just different.
Strange to classify a good wholefood and two refined carbs as "not
real food" The refined carbs will not contribute anything to the gut
flora, as it will all be absorbed in the small intestine.
>Do we treat the marker, ie. gut flora, or do we alter the diet to
>correct the gut flora?
How do you mean "correct the gut flora"? What's wrong with it?
>Soon some pharmaceutical company will come up with gut flora reseedeers
>and reconditioners that will make you thin, only $299.99 for three
>months worth and four pages of small print side effects.
They do that now with "probiotic mixtures". You don't have to buy it,
though. I personally breathe in and swallow perfectly adequate gut
flora reseeders from the atmosphere, whenever I grossly upset them
with a necessary course of anti-biotics. jack