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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / December 2006need some advie on my diet plan
I am trying to lose some fat and retain some muscle gains. Here is my "cutting" diet. Anyt houghts? Thanks! Here is a typical day. Due to my schedule I can only get three meals in a day instead of the more optimal 5 or 6. Breakfast 4 extra large eggs fried(I use cooking spray to minimize fat calories) 2 slices wheat bread 2 cups of 1% milk Lunch Roast beef sandwhich 2 slices wheat bread 4oz sliced roast beef 1oz reduced fat cheese Dinner Chicken 2 cups 1% milk All told this is about 1600 calories with about 150 grams of protein. I weigh, currently about 200 lbs. Looking to lose about 20 pounds. I am going to maintain my lifting routine(2 whole body workouts twice a week + 1 leg day) and work in cardio every day(either ride my bicycle or jog) for 30-45 minutes. How does this look? I figure this is roughly a 1000 calorie deficit each day(if I factor in the cardio) so I should be losing about 2 pounds/week. > How does this look? > I figure this is roughly a 1000 calorie deficit each day(if I factor in > the cardio) so I should be losing about 2 pounds/week. It looks like it's totally deficient in vegetables. Try swapping the milk and starch carbs for some colorful leafy veggies. Susan Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in part: >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >It looks like it's totally deficient in vegetables. Try swapping the >milk and starch carbs for some colorful leafy veggies. Yes. It looks like a disaster in terms of health. -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu > Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Yes. It looks like a disaster in terms of health. uhmm, ok. Well, when you are done with your handwaving could you elaborate a bit? Anyway, my main goal here is to maximize fat loss while maintaining lean body mass. Are you familiar with sports nutrition? Is there a better group to ask in that you can recommend where people know more of these subjects? TIA > uhmm, ok. Well, when you are done with your handwaving could you > elaborate a bit? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > know more of these subjects? > TIA This is a science newsgroup, a nutrition newsgroup, you know that, right? It helps if a person has read at least something about the subject before asking a wide open question such as yours. Have you researched targeted ketogenic dieting, or cyclic ketogenic dieting? Susan > uhmm, ok. Well, when you are done with your handwaving could you > elaborate a bit? > Anyway, my main goal here is to maximize fat loss while maintaining lean > body mass. Are you familiar with sports nutrition? > Is there a better group to ask in that you can recommend where people > know more of these subjects? Without fruits and vegetables in your diet, you are missing some vitamins, minerals, and fiber from your diet. You can take supplements to get those things, or add some fruit and vegetables. Sports nutritition needs are very similar to the needs of the general population, but you could go to a weight lifting group to get specific advice.  SignatureRon Ron Peterson wrote: " Without fruits and vegetables in your diet, you are missing some vitamins, minerals, and fiber from your diet. " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Like the healthy Ekimos? Personally, I just don't buy into the fruits and vegetables are always good for you argument. Thanks to some minor inflammatory problems, I can't tolerate them. In fact, I remain healthy by avoiding them. ===================================== Ron Peterson wrote: " You can take supplements to get those things, or add some fruit and vegetables. " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Like the healthy Eskimos don't? Supplements can be dangerous, if they supply something you don't need to begin with. It can lead to (or add to) a nutritional imbalance. " It looks like it's totally deficient in vegetables. Try swapping the milk and starch carbs for some colorful leafy veggies. " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Eskimos did/do pretty well without consuming colorful leafy veggies. To the OP, watch out for foods that cause a negative reaction. (usually called an allergic reaction) An itchy nose is a classic sign. And there are others to look for. Any reactive (inflammatory causing?) foods, will hamper your weight loss attempts. You might want to look into the blood-type diet as well, though I don't buy into it completely. There are certain things to do, involving diet and exercise, that will help you lose weight. YOU need to find out what they are. (it tends to vary from person to person) > " It looks like it's totally deficient in vegetables. Try swapping the > milk and starch carbs for some colorful leafy veggies. " > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Eskimos did/do pretty well without consuming colorful leafy veggies. They didn't eat them because they weren't available in certain seasons. When they are available they do eat them. I didn't say the OP would die without them, I said he'd made poor choices between what's available to him. Susan allr1@webtv.net wrote in part: >Eskimos did/do pretty well without consuming colorful leafy veggies. This is a legend. The people who live in the Northern ranges of Canada and Alaska that you are probably referring to, stored "colorful leafy vegetables" from the summer tundra for consumption during the winter. These are the same veggies that the caribou and other sources of meat feed on. -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu > allr1@webtv.net wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > -- > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu And how long did these stored "colorful leafy vegetables" last them. And how much were they able to gather and store and consume throut the year? It wasn't atypical for Inuits and Eskimos to eat pretty much entirely raw frozen fish with only small amounts of anything else for up to 8 months of the year. TC TC wrote: " And how long did these stored "colorful leafy vegetables" last them. And how much were they able to gather and store and consume throut the year? It wasn't atypical for Inuits and Eskimos to eat pretty much entirely raw frozen fish with only small amounts of anything else for up to 8 months of the year. " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is my understanding. Also, they ate seal and whale meat too, which was available year round. Jim Chinnis) allr1@webtv.net wrote in part: This is a legend. [that Eskimos did/do pretty well without consuming colorful leafy veggies] The people who live in the Northern ranges of Canada and Alaska that you are probably referring to, stored "colorful leafy vegetables" from the summer tundra for consumption during the winter. These are the same veggies that the caribou and other sources of meat feed on. " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Have any proof to back that up? (I'm open to it) >> How does this look? >> I figure this is roughly a 1000 calorie deficit each day(if I factor in >> the cardio) so I should be losing about 2 pounds/week. > > It looks like it's totally deficient in vegetables. Try swapping the milk > and starch carbs for some colorful leafy veggies. Do you recommend swapping all the milk and starch carbs? Probably not all. The diet of TheGist is low fat diet. If he swaps starch carbs for fat it would be LOW CARB diet. What do you recommend for him? S* >>>How does this look? >>>I figure this is roughly a 1000 calorie deficit each day(if I factor in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > S* I recommend that he not get his only carbs from fast acting starches that stimulate fat storage, but instead from colorful plant foods, slower to digest and rich in antioxidants. If his goal is mass gain with fat loss, I recommend he read about ketogenic dieting, cyclic and/or targeted. Susan Star by reading one of Dr Atkins' books. You are just guessing, and you do not seem to understand basic nutrition. TC > I am trying to lose some fat and retain some muscle gains. > Here is my "cutting" diet. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > I figure this is roughly a 1000 calorie deficit each day(if I factor in > the cardio) so I should be losing about 2 pounds/week. > Star by reading one of Dr Atkins' books. You are just guessing, and you > do not seem to understand basic nutrition. Whoa...slow down. You and some other people have made the (incorrect) assumption that I don't know anything about ketogenic diets or the "Dr. Atkins" version thereof. I am mainly trying to see if my diet provides sufficient protein for retaining lean body mass and providing sufficient caloric deficit. So, le me be more clear, for a 5'10" man that currently weighs about 200lbs does this look about right? Unfortunately I am unsure of my BF % at the moment. Probably in the high teens, I'd guess, based on the last time I had it done. TheGist <fake@nospam.net> wrote in part: >> Star by reading one of Dr Atkins' books. You are just guessing, and you >> do not seem to understand basic nutrition. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >at the moment. Probably in the high teens, I'd guess, based on the last >time I had it done. The only way to know is to weigh each day and adjust amounts accordingly. You will lose less muscle when losing weight if you keep protein relatively high. There are data showing less loss of muscle in low carb diets as compared to low fat diets, but this may be due to many low carbers consuming more protein--I don't recall. I believe the comments about adding vegetables and such apply if you will be on the diet more than a short time. Your diet is low in healthy fats, fiber, and a variety of phytochemicals. OK for short term but not for longer. -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu Jim Chinnis wrote: " You will lose less muscle when losing weight if you keep protein relatively high. There are data showing less loss of muscle in low carb diets as compared to low fat diets, but this may be due to many low carbers consuming more protein--I don't recall. " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Low carb diets work by lowering the insulin response. Insulin is implicated in the storing of fat. >> Star by reading one of Dr Atkins' books. You are just guessing, and you >> do not seem to understand basic nutrition. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > don't > know anything about ketogenic diets or the "Dr. Atkins" version thereof. LOW CARB is not ketogenic diet. Your leaf of bread contain poor quality protein and starch which your body rework into poor quality fat. The natural animal fat would be better. > I am mainly trying to see if my diet provides sufficient protein > for retaining lean body mass and providing sufficient caloric deficit. The diet should be also complete. For people the best complete are eggs and cream. S*. > I am trying to lose some fat and retain some muscle gains. > Here is my "cutting" diet. > Anyt houghts? > All told this is about 1600 calories with about 150 grams of protein. I > weigh, currently about 200 lbs. Looking to lose about 20 pounds. It is recommended that protein consumption should be 0.8 g per Kg of body weight. You should be able to cut protein to 100 g without losing muscle mass. SignatureRon > It is recommended that protein consumption should be 0.8 g per Kg of > body weight. For whom? At what age? At what level of activity? With what sort of metabolism? Susan >> It is recommended that protein consumption should be 0.8 g per Kg of >> body weight. > > For whom? At what age? At what level of activity? With what sort of > metabolism? Most of sources recommend 0.8 minimum. But I have questions regarding carbs consumption: 1. Atkins 20g, Kwasniewski (Optimal diet) 50g, Calront Federicks (PsychoNutrition) 75g and "the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific research agency." that "The recommended dietary allowance for daily carbohydrate intake for adults and children is130 grams, which is based on how much glucose the brain needs". What is your opinion? 2. What is better for TheGist milk or tea with cream and some dry vine? S* >> I am trying to lose some fat and retain some muscle gains. >> Here is my "cutting" diet. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > body weight. You should be able to cut protein to 100 g without losing > muscle mass. Interesting. This is exactly the sort of information I was after. Many bodybuilding magazines and newsgroups and the like recommend 1 gram per POUND bodyweight as a goal. Some recommend more than this! This is to maintain lean body mass while trying to lose weight. Have these recommendations ever been borne out in academic literature? > >> I am trying to lose some fat and retain some muscle gains. > >> Here is my "cutting" diet. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > This is to maintain lean body mass while trying to lose weight. > Have these recommendations ever been borne out in academic literature? Well if it is real information your after there is plenty: http://huhs.harvard.edu/ClinicalServices/NutritionKnowHow/Protein.htm or http://www.thedoctorwillseeyounow.com/articles/nutrition/protein_2/ and for a really authoritative source the RDA for macronutrients from the National Academy: http://www.iom.edu/Object.File/Master/7/300/Webtablemacro.pdf Incidentally, the advice you got (and rejected) on adding lots of vegetables, fruits, nuts, fish etc is worth taking seriously and is very good advice. Roland >>> I am trying to lose some fat and retain some muscle gains. >>> Here is my "cutting" diet. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > This is to maintain lean body mass while trying to lose weight. > Have these recommendations ever been borne out in academic literature? It seams that you prefer low protein diet. Early you have stated: "Due to my schedule I can only get three meals in a day instead of the more optimal 5 or 6." In such case you should consider Kwasniewski's Optimal diet. SO* >>>> I am trying to lose some fat and retain some muscle gains. >>>> Here is my "cutting" diet. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > or 6." In such case you should consider Kwasniewski's Optimal diet. > SO* Actually I prefer a high protein diet. Anyway, I had never heard of the Optimum Diet before. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Optimal_Diet Looks interesting! Thanks for the tip. Thanks to everyone who replied. I got a nice bunch of useful information to review. Thanks! |
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