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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / December 2006

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Confusing recent info on eggs

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223rem - 29 Nov 2006 19:03 GMT
A bunch of recent studies seem to indicate that the cholesterol in
grass-fed eggs, supposedly rich in Omega-3 fatty acids, is not as
harmful as regular-egg cholesterol. Apparently, it is ok to eat 2 or
even more omega-3 eggs per day. However, conventional wisdom (for
example, http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4488)
says otherwise.  So who is right? Thanks.
Jim Chinnis - 29 Nov 2006 20:05 GMT
"223rem" <223remi@gmail.com> wrote in part:

>A bunch of recent studies seem to indicate that the cholesterol in
>grass-fed eggs, supposedly rich in Omega-3 fatty acids, is not as
>harmful as regular-egg cholesterol. Apparently, it is ok to eat 2 or
>even more omega-3 eggs per day. However, conventional wisdom (for
>example, http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4488)
>says otherwise.  So who is right? Thanks.

I'd go with the recent studies. And I don't know that any studies have shown
that even regular egg consumption leads to atherosclerosis, heart attacks,
or death.

BTW, there is no such thing as "grass-fed" eggs. Hens that produce so-called
omega-3 eggs are fed partly on flaxseed. This contains a lot of
alpha-linolenic acid, a short-chain omega-3 fatty acid. The eggs contain
DHA, probably the most important of the long-chain omega-3 fatty acids. If
you don't want to eat eggs, eat fatty fish or take fish oil supplements, or
do all three.
--
Jim Chinnis  Warrenton, Virginia, USA  jchinnis@alum.mit.edu
Juhana Harju - 29 Nov 2006 20:21 GMT
: "223rem" <223remi@gmail.com> wrote in part:
:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
: have shown that even regular egg consumption leads to
: atherosclerosis, heart attacks, or death.

This is a topic which has been discussed previously in this newsgroup.
Higher consumption of animal products, eggs included, is associated with
higher heart disease insidence and mortality. There seems to be an optimal
intake of eggs, somewhere around 1-2 eggs in _week_.

: BTW, there is no such thing as "grass-fed" eggs. Hens that produce
: so-called omega-3 eggs are fed partly on flaxseed. This contains a
: lot of alpha-linolenic acid, a short-chain omega-3 fatty acid. The
: eggs contain DHA, probably the most important of the long-chain
: omega-3 fatty acids. If you don't want to eat eggs, eat fatty fish or
: take fish oil supplements, or do all three.

Even omega-3 eggs contain cholesterol, and 25 to 30 percent of people are
sensitive to dietary cholesterol. Omega-3 eggs are certainly a healthier
choice than regular eggs. Still their limitless consumption might not be
good for cholesterol sensitive people.

Signature

Juhana

Jim Chinnis - 29 Nov 2006 20:29 GMT
"Juhana Harju" <spamshantigiriorama.removespam@gmail.com> wrote in part:

>: "223rem" <223remi@gmail.com> wrote in part:
>:
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>higher heart disease insidence and mortality. There seems to be an optimal
>intake of eggs, somewhere around 1-2 eggs in _week_.

Reference to a study  showing that "regular egg consumption leads to
atherosclerosis, heart attacks, or death?" Fish are animals. Does higher
consumption of fish lead to heart disease by the same argument?

>: BTW, there is no such thing as "grass-fed" eggs. Hens that produce
>: so-called omega-3 eggs are fed partly on flaxseed. This contains a
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>choice than regular eggs. Still their limitless consumption might not be
>good for cholesterol sensitive people.

Nothing should be consumed without limit.
--
Jim Chinnis  Warrenton, Virginia, USA  jchinnis@alum.mit.edu
Juhana Harju - 29 Nov 2006 20:38 GMT
: "Juhana Harju" <spamshantigiriorama.removespam@gmail.com> wrote in
: part:
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
: atherosclerosis, heart attacks, or death?" Fish are animals. Does
: higher consumption of fish lead to heart disease by the same argument?

No, fish are and exception of this rule. Eggs are not.

::: BTW, there is no such thing as "grass-fed" eggs. Hens that produce
::: so-called omega-3 eggs are fed partly on flaxseed. This contains a
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
:
: Nothing should be consumed without limit.

You know what I meant.

Signature

Juhana

Jim Chinnis - 29 Nov 2006 20:56 GMT
"Juhana Harju" <spamshantigiriorama.removespam@gmail.com> wrote in part:

>: "Juhana Harju" <spamshantigiriorama.removespam@gmail.com> wrote in
>: part:
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
>No, fish are and exception of this rule. Eggs are not.

Reference?

>::: BTW, there is no such thing as "grass-fed" eggs. Hens that produce
>::: so-called omega-3 eggs are fed partly on flaxseed. This contains a
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>You know what I meant.
--
Jim Chinnis  Warrenton, Virginia, USA  jchinnis@alum.mit.edu
Matti Narkia - 30 Nov 2006 00:25 GMT
>: "223rem" <223remi@gmail.com> wrote in part:
>:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>This is a topic which has been discussed previously in this newsgroup.

Yes, and and the conclusion has been that moderate consumption of eggs
is not harmful and could be beneficial.

>Higher consumption of animal products, eggs included, is associated with
>higher heart disease insidence and mortality. There seems to be an optimal
>intake of eggs, somewhere around 1-2 eggs in _week_.

That's only your opinion which is not supported by evidence. Although
persons suffering from diabetes or having very high cholesterol level
may want too limit their egg consumption to 1-3 eggs weekly, healthy
persons have not been shown to get any harm from consuming one egg per
day. A couple of citations from the Harvard School of Public Health
Nutrition Source's articele

Fats and Cholesterol - The Good, The Bad, and The Healthy Diet
<http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fats.html>:

   "In a study of over 80,000 female nurses, Harvard researchers
   actually found that increasing cholesterol intake by 200 mg for
   every 1000 calories in the diet (about an egg a day) did not
   appreciably increase the risk for heart disease.(5)

   [...]
   
   Long vilified by well-meaning doctors and scientists for their
   high cholesterol content, eggs are now making a bit of a
   comeback. Recent research by Harvard investigators has shown
   that moderate egg consumption--up to one a day--does not
   increase heart disease risk in healthy individuals.(5) While
   it's true that egg yolks have a lot of cholesterol--and,
   therefore may slightly affect blood cholesterol levels--eggs
   also contain nutrients that may help lower the risk for heart
   disease, including protein, vitamins B12 and D, riboflavin, and
   folate.
   
   So, when eaten in moderation, eggs can be part of a healthy
   diet. People with diabetes, though, should probably limit
   themselves to no more than two or three eggs a week, as the
   Nurses' Health Study found that for such individuals, an egg a
   day might increase the risk for heart disease. Similarly, people
   who have difficulty controlling their blood cholesterol may also
   want to be cautious about eating egg yolks and choose foods made
   with egg whites instead.

The article refers to the study

Hu FB, Stampfer MJ, Rimm EB, Manson JE, Ascherio A, Colditz GA, Rosner
BA, Spiegelman D, Speizer FE, Sacks FM, Hennekens CH, Willett WC.
A prospective study of egg consumption and risk of cardiovascular
disease in men and women.
JAMA. 1999 Apr 21;281(15):1387-94.
PMID: 10217054 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/281/15/1387>

Here's its abstract:

   "CONTEXT: Reduction in egg consumption has been widely
   recommended to lower blood cholesterol levels and prevent
   coronary heart disease (CHD). Epidemiologic studies on egg
   consumption and risk of CHD are sparse. OBJECTIVE: To examine
   the association between egg consumption and risk of CHD and
   stroke in men and women. DESIGN AND SETTING: Two prospective
   cohort studies, the Health Professionals Follow-up Study
   (1986-1994) and the Nurses' Health Study (1980-1994).
   PARTICIPANTS: A total of 37851 men aged 40 to 75 years at study
   outset and 80082 women aged 34 to 59 years at study outset, free
   of cardiovascular disease, diabetes, hypercholesterolemia, or
   cancer. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Incident nonfatal myocardial
   infarction, fatal CHD, and stroke corresponding to daily egg
   consumption as determined by a food-frequency questionnaire.
   RESULTS: We documented 866 incident cases of CHD and 258
   incident cases of stroke in men during 8 years of follow-up and
   939 incident cases of CHD and 563 incident cases of stroke in
   women during 14 years of follow-up. After adjustment for age,
   smoking, and other potential CHD risk factors, we found no
   evidence of an overall significant association between egg
   consumption and risk of CHD or stroke in either men or women.
   The relative risks (RRs) of CHD across categories of intake were
   less than 1 per week (1.0), 1 per week (1.06), 2 to 4 per week
   (1.12), 5 to 6 per week (0.90), and > or =1 per day (1.08) (P
   for trend = .75) for men; and less than 1 per week (1.0), 1 per
   week (0.82), 2 to 4 per week (0.99), 5 to 6 per week (0.95), and
   > or =1 per day (0.82) (P for trend = .95) for women. In
   subgroup analyses, higher egg consumption appeared to be
   associated with increased risk of CHD only among diabetic
   subjects (RR of CHD comparing more than 1 egg per day with less
   than 1 egg per week among diabetic men, 2.02 [95% confidence
   interval, 1.05-3.87; P for trend = .04], and among diabetic
   women, 1.49 [0.88-2.52; P for trend = .008]). CONCLUSIONS: These
   findings suggest that consumption of up to 1 egg per day is
   unlikely to have substantial overall impact on the risk of CHD
   or stroke among healthy men and women. The apparent increased
   risk of CHD associated with higher egg consumption among
   diabetic participants warrants further research."

This is to my knowledge currently the only study specificly
designed to explore the association between egg consumption and CVD.
It has been repeatedly presented to you and yet you continuously
choose to ignore it in favor of whatever personal agenda you may have.

Signature

Matti Narkia

Jim Chinnis - 30 Nov 2006 17:30 GMT
Matti Narkia <mna@mbnet.fi> wrote in part:

>Hu FB, Stampfer MJ, Rimm EB, Manson JE, Ascherio A, Colditz GA, Rosner
>BA, Spiegelman D, Speizer FE, Sacks FM, Hennekens CH, Willett WC.
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>This is to my knowledge currently the only study specificly
>designed to explore the association between egg consumption and CVD.

Thanks.

Any time one starts relying on tiny changes to risk factors rather than on
actual tests with morbidity/mortality outcomes, it's worthless. When a
single risk factor is examined for a small change, it is ridiculous.
--
Jim Chinnis  Warrenton, Virginia, USA  jchinnis@alum.mit.edu
monty1945@lycos.com - 30 Nov 2006 19:22 GMT
My point is that one needs to study specific diets, taking the cooking
techniques into account as well.  I will not claim to be the first
person to suggest this, as you can find such studies on pubmed.com.
People who like boiled eggs will eat more of them, while some people
only eat scrambled eggs.   The difference in terms of oxidizing the
cholesterol can be extreme, as can the other things eaten at the same
time.  Simple experiments can be done to demonstrate that this is the
case.  Also, other kinds of damage can be done to the body due to too
much oxidized cholesterol.  You can see evidence for that on my site,
or by searching pubmed.com or even google.

http://groups.msn.com/TheScientificDebateForum-/
Juhana Harju - 29 Nov 2006 22:18 GMT
: A bunch of recent studies seem to indicate that the cholesterol in
: grass-fed eggs, supposedly rich in Omega-3 fatty acids, is not as
: harmful as regular-egg cholesterol. Apparently, it is ok to eat 2 or
: even more omega-3 eggs per day. However, conventional wisdom (for
: example, http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4488)
: says otherwise.  So who is right? Thanks.

This study shows that eggs makes the cholesterol ratios worse (cholesterol
ratios are more important than total cholesterol in predicting heart disease
risk).

Am J Clin Nutr. 2001 May;73(5):885-91.
Dietary cholesterol from eggs increases the ratio of total cholesterol to
high-density lipoprotein cholesterol in humans: a meta-analysis.
Weggemans RM, Zock PL, Katan MB.
Division of Human Nutrition and Epidemiology, Wageningen University,
Wageningen, Netherlands.

BACKGROUND: Several epidemiologic studies found no effect of egg consumption
on the risk of coronary heart disease. It is possible that the adverse
effect of eggs on LDL-cholesterol is offset by their favorable effect on HDL
cholesterol. OBJECTIVE: The objective was to review the effect of dietary
cholesterol on the ratio of total to HDL cholesterol. DESIGN: Studies were
identified by MEDLINE and Biological Abstracts searches (from 1974 to June
1999) and by reviewing reference lists. In addition, we included data from a
more recently published study. Studies were included if they had a crossover
or parallel design with a control group, if the experimental diets differed
only in the amount of dietary cholesterol or number of eggs and were fed for
> or =14 d, and if HDL-cholesterol concentrations were reported. Of the 222
studies identified, 17 studies involving 556 subjects met these criteria.
RESULTS: The addition of 100 mg dietary cholesterol/d increased the ratio of
total to HDL cholesterol by 0.020 units (95% CI: 0.010, 0.030), total
cholesterol concentrations by 0.056 mmol/L (2.2 mg/dL) (95% CI: 0.046, 0.065
mmol/L; 1.8, 2.5 mg/dL), and HDL-cholesterol concentrations by 0.008 mmol/L
(0.3 mg/dL) (95% CI: 0.005, 0.010 mmol/L; 0.2, 0.4 mg/dL). CONCLUSIONS:
Dietary cholesterol raises the ratio of total to HDL cholesterol and,
therefore, adversely affects the cholesterol profile. The advice to limit
cholesterol intake by reducing consumption of eggs and other
cholesterol-rich foods may therefore still be valid. PMID: 11333841

http://tinyurl.com/yl5l3l

Signature

Juhana

Jim Chinnis - 29 Nov 2006 22:45 GMT
"Juhana Harju" <spamshantigiriorama.removespam@gmail.com> wrote in part:

>: A bunch of recent studies seem to indicate that the cholesterol in
>: grass-fed eggs, supposedly rich in Omega-3 fatty acids, is not as
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
>http://tinyurl.com/yl5l3l

So there is weak evidence (meta-analysis) of a small effect (0.02 change in
ratio per 100 mg/d) in a single risk factor. Fair enough.

As most "omega-3" eggs have DHA and less saturated fat, eating an equivalent
amount might improve the tot/HDL ratio or make a different risk factor
enough better to compensate, if we are playing with risk factors.
--
Jim Chinnis  Warrenton, Virginia, USA  jchinnis@alum.mit.edu
monty1945@lycos.com - 29 Nov 2006 23:02 GMT
Most important thing is to boil eggs.  Do not cook them at high
temperatures and while exposed to air.  Since they are high in
cholesterol, if you eat them with a highly unsaturated oil, and
especially with no antioxidant-rich foods, you risk oxidizing the
cholesterol after you eat it.
Matti Narkia - 30 Nov 2006 01:26 GMT
>: A bunch of recent studies seem to indicate that the cholesterol in
>: grass-fed eggs, supposedly rich in Omega-3 fatty acids, is not as
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
>http://tinyurl.com/yl5l3l

Very small effect, which is probably negligible, and most likely
overshadowed by beneficial effects of those egg nutrients that may
help lower the risk for heart disease, as mentioned in the Harvard
article I quoted in an earlier message.

Signature

Matti Narkia

Enrico C - 30 Nov 2006 23:07 GMT
> CONCLUSIONS:
> Dietary cholesterol raises the ratio of total to HDL cholesterol and,
> therefore, adversely affects the cholesterol profile. The advice to limit
> cholesterol intake by reducing consumption of eggs and other
> cholesterol-rich foods may therefore still be valid. PMID: 11333841

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=R
etrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15447890

"Intake of 2 eggs/d results in the maintenance of LDL:HDL and in the
generation of a less atherogenic LDL in this population of Mexican
children."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra
ctPlus&list_uids=16988120&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

"These findings indicate that in older adults, 5 wk of consuming 1 egg/d
significantly increases serum lutein and zeaxanthin concentrations without
elevating serum lipids and lipoprotein cholesterol concentrations."
Juhana Harju - 01 Dec 2006 07:14 GMT
:: CONCLUSIONS:
:: Dietary cholesterol raises the ratio of total to HDL cholesterol and,
:: therefore, adversely affects the cholesterol profile. The advice to
:: limit cholesterol intake by reducing consumption of eggs and other
:: cholesterol-rich foods may therefore still be valid. PMID: 11333841

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra
ctPlus&list_uids=16988120&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

: "These findings indicate that in older adults, 5 wk of consuming 1
: egg/d significantly increases serum lutein and zeaxanthin
: concentrations without elevating serum lipids and lipoprotein
: cholesterol concentrations."

Yes, I have seen that study before. There are other, even better dietary
sources of lutein and zeaxanthin than eggs. If people were advised to eat
more green leafy vegetables, they would get even more lutein and zeaxanthin.
Spinach is a very good source of them. Orange sweet peppers are the best
source of zeaxanthin.

Signature

Juhana

 
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