The 30 billion per year "alternative" industry can and does spend
millions to sustain its present status of being given a free ride from
regulation as to making claims that things work when they cann't be
shown to be so. Here is an illuminating article with a perfect example
of how it works:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15387493/#skipnav
" No doubt some of the thousands of products sold as dietary supplements
work well, but the industry that sells them has neither motivation
nor
desire to know which ones work and which don't.
Neither do many of those who advocate their use, such as the guru of
alternative medicine Dr. Andrew Weil.
On his Web site someone recently inquired if a supplement called NT
was useful for fatigue. "I'm not convinced by the scant literature on
the subject that there's anything to recommend taking NT Factor for
fatigue," Dr. Weil replied, in a surprisingly forthright response.
But, then he added that the fatigue sufferer might want to try
"Siberian ginseng (Eleutherococcus senticosus), coenzyme Q10, the
Ayurvedic herb ashwaganda or cordyceps, a traditional Chinese
medicinal mushroom that may help fight fatigue and boost energy
levels."
I can find no evidence that any of these relieve fatigue any better
than NT.
It gets better.
Dr. Weill concluded his answer by advising that a better-studied
treatment might be something called Juvenon. At the bottom of the Web
page appeared an ad from the manufacturer of Juvenon with the quote
"I
take Juvenon every day - Dr. Andrew Weil."
Such crass commercialism would put most big drug companies to shame."
Steve - 25 Oct 2006 16:07 GMT
As a consumer, I want all of the possible alternatives open to me as
possible.
I think alternative medicine has a lot to offer, but I agree that there
is a lot of ineffective, expensive alternative treatments going on.
Based on my experience here is how not to get burned if you want to try
alternative medicine:
1. Get a real diagnosis from an allopathic or osteopathic MD. If it
is more than a short term issue get two such opinions.
2. Ask your alternative medicine practitioner for a time frame when
you can expect to see results. Many of them will hesitate, sometimes
with good reasons. Fair enough, ask them to give you an padded
estimate. If they don't give you any estimate at all leave. If you
don't see any results in that time frame, leave.
3. If your issue is a long term one, research it. Find out what is
known to work and what is known not to work.
Number 1 will prevent these people from treating a problem that doesn't
exist, or treating the wrong problem.
Number 2 will prevent them from making you into a medicine chest of
supplements. Many of them will keep throwing new supplements and new
treatments at you as results don't happen without any knowledge of why
these things might help you.
John Sankey - 26 Oct 2006 15:46 GMT
There is one big human health factor that the FDA (and most
bureaucrats for that matter) refuse to accept - the placebo
effect. The continual evidence that it does indeed provide
a great deal of relief, even cure, to many people is ignored
by them.
As a scientist who looks for facts, not pre-conceived dogma,
I submit that this failure of regulators is an excellent
reason to ensure that alternative strategies that harness
human hope remain viable. Just because no non-placebo
evidence can be found for an effect does not mean that it
has no effect whatsoever on real people.
Alternative medicine is for people, not test tubes.
TC - 26 Oct 2006 16:03 GMT
You know what? If the allopaths were actually able to successfully heal
and care for people, and their ailments, this would not be an issue.
Would it?
In the absence of anything useful in allopathy, the only alternative is
alternative. Whose fault is that?
TC
> The 30 billion per year "alternative" industry can and does spend
> millions to sustain its present status of being given a free ride from
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> Such crass commercialism would put most big drug companies to shame."
capjack@wondering.com - 26 Oct 2006 20:06 GMT
"You know what? If the allopaths were actually able to successfully heal
and care for people, and their ailments, this would not be an issue.
Would it?
In the absence of anything useful in allopathy, the only alternative is
alternative. Whose fault is that?"
What a curious set of logic that? By "alloppath" one assumes one means
scientifically evidence based medicine? As recalled, it was invented to
put on equal footing science with the non-scientific snake oil lot who
wanted to control the language and the spin on medicine, ah politics.
Outcomes of successful treatment rates is the only measure, and that
based on controled research. In which case as the original article
details the "alternatives" have little about which to remark.
The $30 billion "alternative" industry has in place of scientific
results only the heart felt promises of the salesman and the political
clamor and placebo effect by which to comfort in an otherwise treatment
vacuum..
TC - 27 Oct 2006 01:29 GMT
> "You know what? If the allopaths were actually able to successfully heal
> and care for people, and their ailments, this would not be an issue.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> put on equal footing science with the non-scientific snake oil lot who
> wanted to control the language and the spin on medicine, ah politics.
You forget that modern allopathic medicine is based on these snake oil
salesman. Starting with Kellogg, Graham and ending with modern pharma.
And their "scientific evidence" that it is based on is, of course, of
their own paid researchers. Hardly scientific and most definitely not
independent, which is a fundamental tenet of science.
> Outcomes of successful treatment rates is the only measure, and that
> based on controled research. In which case as the original article
> details the "alternatives" have little about which to remark.
Controlled all right. Controlled by the sellers of snake oils. And that
is the nub of the question.
> The $30 billion "alternative" industry has in place of scientific
> results only the heart felt promises of the salesman and the political
> clamor and placebo effect by which to comfort in an otherwise treatment
> vacuum..
Actually, observation and experience is much more valuable a healing
tool than faked and fudged science.
TC
capjack@wondering.com - 27 Oct 2006 01:52 GMT
"You forget that modern allopathic medicine is based on these snake oil
salesman. Starting with Kellogg, Graham and ending with modern pharma.
And their "scientific evidence" that it is based on is, of course, of
their own paid researchers. Hardly scientific and most definitely not
independent, which is a fundamental tenet of science."
and
"Controlled all right. Controlled by the sellers of snake oils. And that
is the nub of the question."
and
"Actually, observation and experience is much more valuable a healing
tool than faked and fudged science."
And the remarkable logic continues. What would we do if not for the
wisdom of the net newsgroup wag to set us straight. Wait, I forgot
about same being found at any local tavern any night of the week on any
subject. Is it a law of nature that members of lifestyle food cults are
drawn into pseudo-scientific claptrap as surely as the moth to the
flame? No doubt astrology and esp can be woven into this remarkable
system of logic with equal ease.
TC - 27 Oct 2006 19:20 GMT
> "You forget that modern allopathic medicine is based on these snake oil
> salesman. Starting with Kellogg, Graham and ending with modern pharma.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> flame? No doubt astrology and esp can be woven into this remarkable
> system of logic with equal ease.
"Lifestyle food cult"? Where have I heard this tidbit from? Is that the
new allopathic way of denigrating people who understand what real
nutrition is? Must be.
The last refuge of the wrong is name-calling.
TC
Doug Freese - 28 Oct 2006 12:27 GMT
> "Lifestyle food cult"? Where have I heard this tidbit from? Is that
> the
> new allopathic way of denigrating people who understand what real
> nutrition is? Must be.
I hope you are proposing that you understand nutrition? You of all
people calling pot black. I assume to have a lifelong subscription to
the magazine Paranoia Times.
> The last refuge of the wrong is name-calling.
Talk about a two face double standard.
-DF
TC - 28 Oct 2006 17:30 GMT
> > "Lifestyle food cult"? Where have I heard this tidbit from? Is that
> > the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> -DF
The trolls are out in full force.
I understand nutrition more than the typical MD does. Then again,
anyone who reads a couple of pages from the Weston Price website knows
more about nutrition than the typical MD.
How is it that I am paranoid? You keep asserting that I am paranoid,
but there is nothng in my posts that you are responding to that shows
any paranoia. You really are reaching when you call me paranoid, and it
actually shows some strange paranoia from you that you feel that you
have to attack any and all of my posts by suggesting that I am
paranoid.
Are you paranoid that maybe my posts keep educating people on how
allopathic MDs are missing the most crucial information needed for
treating patients, namely the basics of nutrition? Or are you paranoid
that naturopaths and alternative medicines are starting to get the
reputation of being able to cure conditions that allopathic MDs are
unable to touch?
Hmmmmm...... paranioa sure goes around.....
TC
John Sankey - 27 Oct 2006 18:10 GMT
"inexpensive sugar pills and liquids etc. at a few cents a dose
should do the trick and we don't need the $30 billion
"alternative" industry to push the exotic herbs etc."
True only in a test tube. Unfortunately, human beings must
believe that the treatment will work. If they know that it is
only sugar, it won't evoke the placebo effect. The "snake oil"
and high price are essential parts of any effect the product will
have.
"I don't think treatments with no non-placebo evidence of working
should be supported."
"Alternative" means that it is NOT officially supported.
We're talking here about individual choices made by individual
people, usually by people for whom conventional treatments
haven't worked very well. We're seeing FDA and FDIA (the Canadian
equivalent of the FDA) efforts to suppress everything they don't
believe in, to legal prohibition of a scientific fact, the
placebo effect.
"[we should be] studying the placebo effect directly, learning
how to augment and control it. Since it is always a factor in
clinical studies that means it is a huge untapped resource."
True again. There are in fact lots of studies around showing how
powerful the effect can be, so many that any conventional
clinical study must demonstrate that it has taken strict measures
to eliminate it.
One of the biggest barriers to effectively using it clinically is
that of patient trust. A patient must trust their doctor, and if
the doctor is viewed as deceiving them by prescribing a placebo,
this strikes at the heart of patient trust and is therefore
vigorously opposed by all medical licensing authorities.
Treatment of real human beings is not black and white, all or
nothing. The area with which I'm most familiar is severe
allergies and related respiratory sensitivities. If you know that
just walking down the street can suddenly and without warning
land you at death's door, you are going to be one scared and
anxious person. That anxiety stress magnifies the physical trauma
involved. Autohypnosis techniques such as NAET do not cure
anything directly, but they can greatly reduce anxiety stress,
and therefore alleviate real physical symptoms. Yet, because a
test tube doesn't respond to hypnosis methods, our licensing
authorities severely discipline any doctor who uses them. NAET
and similar techniques are therefore restricted to the patient-
funded "alternative" delivery system - no insurance or medicare.
There are lots of people with little-understood food reaction and
absorption problems. We need to ensure that there remains an
effective means of enabling the placebo effect to be used by
these people. At the moment, the only viable way seems to be
"alternative medicine". We don't ban surgery because it sometimes
doesn't work. We shouldn't ban other techniques that sometimes
work and sometimes don't either.