Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / October 2006
I am back as Vegan
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Blueshark - 23 Oct 2006 21:27 GMT I made some posts on usenet describing my transition from vegan to fisheater.
It lasted a month but I am now back to vegan.
I can't deny fish tasted good, but eventually it made me ill, more so than since I have been vegan (18 months)
I will seek out other sources for omega-3 and B12.
The statement and vegan cause is too important to me for me to give up on.
I look forward to discussions.
Dutch - 23 Oct 2006 21:57 GMT >I made some posts on usenet describing my transition from vegan to > fisheater. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I look forward to discussions. If food upsets your stomach that's a good signal to avoid it. It's always good to listen to your body, as opposed to telling it what it you think it should want.
Blueshark - 23 Oct 2006 22:08 GMT > If food upsets your stomach that's a good signal to avoid it. It's always > good to listen to your body, as opposed to telling it what it you think it > should want. Thanks.
I tend to agree Dutch.
> >I made some posts on usenet describing my transition from vegan to > > fisheater. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > > > I look forward to discussions. monty1945@lycos.com - 23 Oct 2006 22:27 GMT Just remember that you can get B12 in supplement form and that is fine. Also, omega 3s are clearly not essential, as was shown in the 1948 experiments in which rats were given a fat free diet. This refuted the 1930 Burr & Burr experiment, which is still cited. Apparently, the Burr's had a more ambitious graduate student than those conducting the 1949 experiments. In any case, for more information on this and other, similar issues, go to:
http://groups.msn.com/TheScientificDebateForum-/
I was a vegan for over 12 years, but was not getting enough good quality protein. I also seem to have consumed too little salt. My great grandfather lived to be over 100, and he had no source of omega 3s in his diet, except for the tiniest of trace amounts that you would get in just about any common diet these days in the West. I have been avoiding all PUFAs, except for unavoidable trace amounts, for several years now, and my health is better than ever.
AWilliamson <AW - 24 Oct 2006 13:04 GMT >Also, omega 3s are clearly not essential, as was shown in the 1948 >experiments in which rats were given a fat free diet. This refuted the >1930 Burr & Burr experiment, which is still cited. I didn't read through your cited web page, but I know there's quite a bit of research today that Omega 3 are need. They are even being hyped as a supplement in dog food.
>great grandfather lived to be over 100, and he had no source of omega >3s in his diet, except for the tiniest of trace amounts that you would >get in just about any common diet these days in the West. He lived in a time where the air, water and food were clean.
A.Williamson mailto:healanthart@shaklee.net
http://www.shaklee.net/healanthart Thought of the day: The road to success is under construction...
bcpg@canada.com - 23 Oct 2006 23:47 GMT > I made some posts on usenet describing my transition from vegan to > fisheater. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I will seek out other sources for omega-3 and B12. If you ate the fish raw you got omega-3, if cooked, you didn't.
You can get your omegas from Omega Nutrition products. The oils are pressed so they don't overheat and packaged so no sunlight hits the oils.
B-12 can be obtained from wheat grown in a manured soil.
Grasses uptake B-12 if it is present and wheat is a grass.
> The statement and vegan cause is too important to me for me to give up > on. > > I look forward to discussions. Dutch - 24 Oct 2006 02:20 GMT >> I made some posts on usenet describing my transition from vegan to >> fisheater. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > If you ate the fish raw you got omega-3, if cooked, you didn't. Totally false. see http://www.tufts.edu/med/nutrition-infection/hiv/health_omega3.html
> You can get your omegas from Omega Nutrition products. The oils are > pressed so they don't overheat and packaged so no sunlight hits the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Grasses uptake B-12 if it is present and wheat is a grass. Flaxseed oil is the best source of Omega 3.
>> The statement and vegan cause is too important to me for me to give up >> on. >> >> I look forward to discussions. Whining, Crying, Bawl - 24 Oct 2006 18:19 GMT > > I made some posts on usenet describing my transition from vegan to > > fisheater. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > pressed so they don't overheat and packaged so no sunlight hits the > oils. Omega Nutrition makes a blended oil that has omega 3,6,and 9 in proper proportion.
> B-12 can be obtained from wheat grown in a manured soil. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > > I look forward to discussions. Blueshark - 25 Oct 2006 12:31 GMT Yeah flaxseed looks pretty good.
15g teaspoon would meet the daily requirements for omega-3.
And at this amount, the EPA and DHA would meet the RDA.
Wikipedia claims it is a cure for cancer, but it doesn't give much credence to the claim!
> > > I made some posts on usenet describing my transition from vegan to > > > fisheater. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > > > > > I look forward to discussions. pearl - 25 Oct 2006 13:09 GMT > Yeah flaxseed looks pretty good. Walnuts as well. See: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=99 Pumpkin seeds are a good source too, as are hemp seeds, and leafy greens.. If you take flax seeds it's best to grind them and soak in fresh water for 20 minutes. Then just drink them down.
> 15g teaspoon would meet the daily requirements for omega-3. > > And at this amount, the EPA and DHA would meet the RDA. > > Wikipedia claims it is a cure for cancer, but it doesn't give much > credence to the claim! Dutch - 25 Oct 2006 20:47 GMT > Yeah flaxseed looks pretty good. > > 15g teaspoon would meet the daily requirements for omega-3. I forget, isn't that *weekly requirement*? The seeds are not very digestible, I sometimes grind them up before cooking them in oatmeal.
Good luck, vegetarian diets are great, if you can make them work for you.
> And at this amount, the EPA and DHA would meet the RDA. > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> > > >> > > I look forward to discussions. Blueshark - 26 Oct 2006 10:53 GMT Could be, to be honest, I have not read up on the exact details yet.
I figure I will just increase the quantity for consumption, to minimise the inefficient EFA/DHA conversion rates.
> > Yeah flaxseed looks pretty good. > > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > >> > > > >> > > I look forward to discussions. pearl - 26 Oct 2006 11:46 GMT > Could be, to be honest, I have not read up on the exact details yet. > > I figure I will just increase the quantity for consumption, to minimise > the inefficient EFA/DHA conversion rates. '.. it is important to ensure that there are sufficient amounts of ALA, which is necessary for the production of EPA and DHA. Most healthy vegetarians would be well advised to double their intake of ALA, providing 1% of energy from n-3 fatty acids or 1.1 g/1000 cal. For those with increased needs or decreased capacity to convert, an intake of 2% of energy or 2.2 g/1000 cal may be necessary. The primary sources of ALA are selected seeds, nuts, and legumes (flaxseed, hempseed, canola, walnuts, and soy) and the green leaves of plants, including phytoplankton and algae. .. Practical guidelines for achieving optimal EFA intake in vegetarians are as follows. 1) Make a wide variety of whole plant foods the foundation of the diet. 2) Get most fat from whole foods- nuts, seeds, olives, avocados, and soy foods. 3) If using concentrated fats and oils, select those rich in monounsaturated fats, such as olive, canola, or nut oils. n-3-Rich oils can also be used but should not be heated. Moderate use of n-6-rich oils is recommended. 4) Limit intake of processed foods and deep-fried foods rich in trans and n-6 fatty acids. 5) Reduce intake of foods rich in saturated fat and cholesterol. 6) Include foods rich in n-3 fatty acids in the daily diet. Aim for 2-4 g ALA/d. 7) Consider using a direct source of DHA. Aim for 100-300 mg/d. ' ... For those with increased needs for EPA and DHA (eg, pregnant and lactating women) or at greater risk for poor conversion (persons with diabetes, those with neurological disorders, premature infants, the elderly), it may be prudent to ensure that there is a direct source of EPA and DHA.'
While they are the original sources of EPA and DHA (fish do not produce long-chain n-3 fatty acids), most are not concentrated sources because of their extremely low total fat content. An important exception is a DHA-rich microalgae that provides 10-40% DHA by dry weight and is currently available in supplement form. When supplementing with a direct DHA source, 100-300 mg/d is recommended. Blue-green algae (spirulina and Aphanizomenon flos-aquae) are low in long-chain n-3 fatty acids. Spirulina is rich in -linolenic acid (GLA, n-6), while A. flos-aquae is more concentrated in ALA. Though blue-green algae is not a significant source of EPA or DHA, some research indicates that it has a very high conversion rate in comparison to other plants (R Kushak et al, unpublished observations, 1999). Macroalgae, otherwise known as seaweed, is even lower in fat than most vegetables (< 1-14% of calories from fat), although it does contain small amounts of long-chain fatty acids. A 100-g serving provides, on average, 100 mg EPA but little DHA. Seaweeds do not contribute significantly to EPA intakes in the Western world but are important sources where people use large quantities of seaweed on a daily basis (eg, Japan and other parts of Asia). Thus, while vegetarians can rely on eggs and/or microalgae supplements for DHA, most consume little if any EPA. However, < 10-11% of DHA is retroconverted to EPA; thus, if sufficient ALA and DHA are consumed, total EPA production would be expected to be adequate (61). ...' http://tinyurl.com/65xn7
Blueshark - 26 Oct 2006 12:55 GMT An important exception is a DHA-rich
> microalgae that provides 10-40% DHA by dry weight and is currently > available in supplement form. When supplementing with a direct DHA > source, 100-300 mg/d is recommended. That is interesting info, I am going to look into algae as a food source/supplement
> > Could be, to be honest, I have not read up on the exact details yet. > > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > ...' > http://tinyurl.com/65xn7 Geoff - 24 Oct 2006 12:04 GMT >I made some posts on usenet describing my transition from vegan to >fisheater. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >I will seek out other sources for omega-3 and B12. Flaxseed is excellent.
dh@. - 26 Oct 2006 15:16 GMT >I made some posts on usenet describing my transition from vegan to >fisheater. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I can't deny fish tasted good, but eventually it made me ill, more so >than since I have been vegan (18 months) Then you must be doing something very bad to your body by trying to be vegan. If you work yourself up to eating some grass raised beef you will be helping yourself, as well as contributing to decent lives for livestock and a better environment for wildlife than you could by consuming any vegetable products.
Blueshark - 26 Oct 2006 16:29 GMT > Then you must be doing something very bad to your body > by trying to be vegan. If you work yourself up to eating some > grass raised beef you will be helping yourself, as well as > contributing to decent lives for livestock and a better environment > for wildlife than you could by consuming any vegetable products. I, just, don't want to.
> >I made some posts on usenet describing my transition from vegan to > >fisheater. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > contributing to decent lives for livestock and a better environment > for wildlife than you could by consuming any vegetable products. dh@. - 27 Oct 2006 14:33 GMT >> Then you must be doing something very bad to your body >> by trying to be vegan. If you work yourself up to eating some [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I, just, don't want to. Right. It doesn't really have anything to do with ethics or with your own nutrition. You have a personal aversion to eating flesh, and/or you just think veg*nism is something to be proud of and respected for some reason. Most likely your aversion to eating flesh caused you to develop a great respect for the idea of being veg*n somewhere along the way, and cognitive dissonance prevents you from ever wanting to consider something else. It's a sad thing, but apparently you're stuck with it.
Blueshark - 30 Oct 2006 11:30 GMT > Right. It doesn't really have anything to do with ethics or with your > own nutrition. You have a personal aversion to eating flesh, and/or [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > wanting to consider something else. It's a sad thing, but apparently > you're stuck with it. I like you dh@, in fact I want to boil you with some potatoes and eat you elbows.
Then we will discuss my veganism.
..Actually there is some truth in your childish grammatical construct.
> >> Then you must be doing something very bad to your body > >> by trying to be vegan. If you work yourself up to eating some [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > wanting to consider something else. It's a sad thing, but apparently > you're stuck with it. dh@. - 30 Oct 2006 16:30 GMT >> Right. It doesn't really have anything to do with ethics or with your >> own nutrition. You have a personal aversion to eating flesh, and/or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I like you dh@, in fact I want to boil you with some potatoes and eat >you elbows. Thanks.
>Then we will discuss my veganism. You really demand too much. Hmm...that seems to be part of it too, with the whole "ar" thing you know. That's pretty demanding, and you guys don't even observe it.
>..Actually there is some truth in your childish grammatical construct. It's most likely all true, and some parts of it you might be willing to acknowledge. If you hate the idea of eating flesh, you could try some cage free eggs and consider the fact that you're contributing to a cage free environment for laying hens. I've been doing that up until the last dozen. I felt the cage free were too expensive last time, but today I'll buy them anyway and feel sort of bad for giving in like that.
>> >> Then you must be doing something very bad to your body >> >> by trying to be vegan. If you work yourself up to eating some [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> wanting to consider something else. It's a sad thing, but apparently >> you're stuck with it. rick - 26 Oct 2006 21:57 GMT >I made some posts on usenet describing my transition from vegan >to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > I look forward to discussions. Nope, you're still not a vegan.
Grassfed beef has better omega 3/6 ratios than fish. Plus it tastes great... http://www.mercola.com/beef/omega3_oil.htm
Blueshark - 27 Oct 2006 10:26 GMT > Grassfed beef has better omega 3/6 ratios than fish. Plus it > tastes great...http://www.mercola.com/beef/omega3_oil.htm Grassfed bovines? Large, lumbering beasts which probably scare the hell out of you if you were stranded in a field with them.
Never mind, suckle on their breasts. Mmmmm.
> >I made some posts on usenet describing my transition from vegan > >to [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Grassfed beef has better omega 3/6 ratios than fish. Plus it > tastes great...http://www.mercola.com/beef/omega3_oil.htm
|
|
|