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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / October 2006Cow Milk
http://www.notmilk.com ah the propaganda. i just don't drink milk any more because there's this funky asprin taste and it gives me acid reflux and i'm sure it's not because i'm lactose intolerant. (i'm not.. i just don't like drinking a vomit shake of hormones and chemicals) > http://www.notmilk.com > ah the propaganda. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > http://www.notmilk.com What is presented today as milk in the supermarket is not really milk. What comes out of the cow is milk. But when you high temperature pasteurize it and honogenize it and separate it and re-constitute it to a specified fat content with powdered milk solids, it is no longer real milk. It is a processed dead concoction. The really sad thing is that real milk (from real healthy cows, fed real food) that isn't processed to death, is one of the healthiest foods available to man. TC > > ah the propaganda. > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > real food) that isn't processed to death, is one of the healthiest > foods available to man. If you believe *that* then I have a bridge in Brooklyn you may be interested in. better go to http://www.notmilk.com and *this* time THOROUGHLY read the info!!! > TC > > > ah the propaganda. > > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > better go to http://www.notmilk.com and *this* time THOROUGHLY read the > info!!! I have read much better info than can be found at that vegan propanda site. TC the same medical team in canada that discovers insulin relating to diabetes, has reasons to believe that cow's milk protein is the cause of diabetes) > http://www.notmilk.com > the same medical team in canada that discovers insulin relating to > diabetes, > has reasons to believe that cow's milk protein is the cause of > diabetes) > > > http://www.notmilk.com Real cow's milk protein or denatured overly processed ultra-high temperature pasteurized cow's milk protein? There is a difference. TC > > the same medical team in canada that discovers insulin relating to > > diabetes, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > TC There was a documentary on T.V. about Uganda. The men in some tribes like their women fat so several months before the wedding they go to special huts to drink milk and get grossly fat. It works! > > > the same medical team in canada that discovers insulin relating to > > > diabetes, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > like their women fat so several months before the wedding they go to > special huts to drink milk and get grossly fat. It works! That is just plain stupid. TC > That is just plain stupid. > > TC Just as stupid as a PETA hater coming up with a phrase like "It is a processed dead concoction. " Pot: Meet Kettle. Hypocrite. PH. Keeping it sane. > > That is just plain stupid. > > > > TC > > Just as stupid as a PETA hater coming up with a phrase like "It is a > processed dead concoction. " Any supposedly fresh "food" that can sit on the shelf for months without going bad, does so because it is rendered dead. It is no longer the same food. If bugs wont eat it, it is no longer food. That concept is a very important one when considering the value of a food after it has been processed. And that concept can be directly linked to the massive jump in chronic diseases in the USA. When most of the food the population eats is laden with sugars, hfcs and other refined carbs and the rest is processed to death, you become multiple-nutrient deficient and you develop massive amounts of chronic diseases. It isn't that complicated and it makes a hell of a lot more sense than what the food experts are pushing. > Pot: Meet Kettle. > > Hypocrite. > > PH. > Keeping it sane. You still haven't actually presented any arguments to support your points or any actual arguments to actually challenge my points. You just express your opinion and throw ad hominem. So, hypocrite, go take a flying f**k. TC >>>> the same medical team in canada that discovers insulin relating to >>>> diabetes, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > TC Why is that stupid? I mean calf's get fat on the stuff, why not humans? And remember the milk is as it comes out of the cows, not the skimmed stuff we drink here. I understand the milk where there is a lot of cream, and fat in the milk will put the pounds on you if you drink enough of it. Rob > >>>> the same medical team in canada that discovers insulin relating to > >>>> diabetes, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Why is that stupid? I mean calf's get fat on the stuff, why not humans? Cattle get fat on grains. They grow on milk. There is a difference between growing up and growing fat, moron. > And remember the milk is as it comes out of the cows, not the skimmed > stuff we drink here. I understand the milk where there is a lot of > cream, and fat in the milk will put the pounds on you if you drink > enough of it. > > Rob The French eat copious amounts of fresh dairy including full fat milk and cream and they have been shown to be thinner and healthier than the Americans gorging themsleves on low fat foods including low fat milk. TC >>>>>> the same medical team in canada that discovers insulin relating to >>>>>> diabetes, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Cattle get fat on grains. They grow on milk. There is a difference > between growing up and growing fat, moron. LOL! You remind me of a little child. Always needing to call someone a name to make your point. It you sir who are a sad case indeed. I may or may not be fully educated on the matter we spoke of above. I can get smarter. However you will always be an no class jerk. No hope for no class jerks. >> And remember the milk is as it comes out of the cows, not the skimmed >> stuff we drink here. I understand the milk where there is a lot of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > TC > The French eat copious amounts of fresh dairy including full fat milk > and cream and they have been shown to be thinner and healthier than the > Americans gorging themsleves on low fat foods including low fat milk. When I was in France, I liked the milk, but I was the only adult who drank it. They thought I was a kook! Only the kids, who didn't drink wine, drank milk. (I was having so much fun and burning up so many calories toting grapes through the mud all day, I drank both and didn't worry about putting on weight.) The milk they drank in their cafe au lait at breakfast was somewhat cooked. I think it was skimmed milk. In fact, I think all the milk was skimmed. It certainly wasn't homogenized. Their cream is very different from ours: fresher, very slightly soured (which gives it body), and without additives. They use it mainly for sauces and desserts, but in moderation. All our milk was local, and the cows grazed in pastures, I think. (It was a long time ago, and I don't remember whether anybody actually told me so.) They do eat cheese, but not all that much. In fact, I got the impression that they ate less than I did (when at home in America), but they appreciated it much more. At a typical meal, the people I was with might have a smidgen of Brie or Camembert (sometimes with butter) on a piece of bread during the meal (usually with the soup course), and perhaps a very small amount of hard cheese with a piece of fruit at the end of the meal. (No between-meal snacks.) And the older people ate much less cheese (if any) than the younger, more active ones. A local centenarian lady was living entirely on bread and grapes, temporarily. These are observations from living in the countryside on a wine-growing chateau near Bordeaux in 1973. We didn't have any processed French cheeses at all, though I know they exist. The most popular hard cheese was "croute rouge", which I think means Gouda, imported from Holland. (It wasn't as soft and fatty as the Gouda I find in American supermarkets nowadays.) Corrections cordially invited! :)  SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > > The French eat copious amounts of fresh dairy including full fat milk > > and cream and they have been shown to be thinner and healthier than the [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > Marshall Price of Miami > Known to Yahoo as d021317c They use full fat fresh raw and often soured milks and creams in their cooking. ie sauces, soups, etc. TC >>> the same medical team in canada that discovers insulin relating to >>> diabetes, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > like their women fat so several months before the wedding they go to > special huts to drink milk and get grossly fat. It works! Hey, are these the guys that if the gals are not fat enough, they tie on pillows to their butts to make them look big and round?\\ I saw a show some years back about a place in Africa that showed this. Then the all danced around a fire, when to huts and got knocked up. But only the big butt gals. Rob > I saw a show some years back about a place in Africa that showed this. > Then the all danced around a fire, when to huts and got knocked up. But > only the big butt gals. That's not steatopygia; that's calipygia! ;-) SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > Real cow's milk protein or denatured overly processed ultra-high > temperature pasteurized cow's milk protein? There is a difference. Have there been any lab tests showing that pasteurized cow's milk protein is inferior to raw cow's milk protein? SignatureRon > > Real cow's milk protein or denatured overly processed ultra-high > > temperature pasteurized cow's milk protein? There is a difference. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > -- > Ron Thye've shown that high temp pasteurization denatures the protein by causing them to get mis-formed or mis-shapen. HT pasteurized milk is a dead food. TC > > > Real cow's milk protein or denatured overly processed ultra-high > > > temperature pasteurized cow's milk protein? There is a difference. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > TC Also pasteurization binds calcium to protein. This renders the calcium unabsorpable to bone. > > > > Real cow's milk protein or denatured overly processed ultra-high > > > > temperature pasteurized cow's milk protein? There is a difference. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Also pasteurization binds calcium to protein. This renders the calcium > unabsorpable to bone. Exactly. Thus making blanket statements about milk without specifying whether they are talking about real milk from healthy well-fed cows raised in clean wide open spaces or whether they are talking about the dead burnt HT or UHT pasteurized milk from animals fed pelletized foods and kept in dirty crowded pens, is pretty much useless. And the silly thing is that these PETA idiots are so convinced of this stupidity and in such crazy denial, that when you point out the discrepancy in their beliefs about milk, all they do is keep bringing up that stupid "notmilk" link. As if that site somehow legitimizes their silly views by its very existence, because that site does not address the difference between real raw milk and the dead stuff that is being sold in the stores. TC > > > > > Real cow's milk protein or denatured overly processed ultra-high > > > > > temperature pasteurized cow's milk protein? There is a difference. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > dead burnt HT or UHT pasteurized milk from animals fed pelletized foods > and kept in dirty crowded pens, is pretty much useless. LOL!!! Cow milk is inappropriate for human consumption on so MANY levels. The ideal ratio of Mg to Ca for proper absorption to the bone is 1:2. Green leafy veggies come closest to this ideal. Cow milk isn't even close. > And the silly thing is that these PETA idiots are so convinced of this > stupidity and in such crazy denial, that when you point out the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > address the difference between real raw milk and the dead stuff that is > being sold in the stores. Raw milk and pasteurized, homogenized, milk both still contain hormones that your cancer cells WILL take instruction from. Both milks contain the proteins that cause asthma, diabetes, congestion, etc. Face it buddy, where in nature do you see any mammal wean it's young from it's own milk and have it then spend a lifetime consuming the lactation fluids of an ENTIRELY different specie? better give http://www.notmilk.com another look and THIS time read ALL the information. > TC > > > > > > Real cow's milk protein or denatured overly processed ultra-high > > > > > > temperature pasteurized cow's milk protein? There is a difference. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Cow milk is inappropriate for human consumption on so MANY levels. That is an opinion based on personal bias and nothing more. > The ideal ratio of Mg to Ca for proper absorption to the bone is 1:2. > Green leafy veggies come closest to this ideal. > Cow milk isn't even close. The calcium/osteoporosis problem is not in the absorption from foods. > > And the silly thing is that these PETA idiots are so convinced of this > > stupidity and in such crazy denial, that when you point out the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Raw milk and pasteurized, homogenized, milk both still contain hormones > that your cancer cells WILL take instruction from. I specifically spoke about: "real milk from healthy well-fed cows raised in clean wide open spaces". By well fed and properly reared, I also mean without applying growth hormones and un-necessary medication. > Both milks contain the proteins that cause asthma, diabetes, > congestion, etc. Wrong. And here is where you show your complete ignorance. Only when the proteins and fats are malformed from over exposure to heat and homogenization does it cause problems. Do you not read what is written? > Face it buddy, where in nature do you see any mammal wean it's young > from it's own milk and have it then spend a lifetime consuming the > lactation fluids of an ENTIRELY different specie? In humans. For tens or hundreds of thousands of years. Without medical problems. On real raw whole milk from healthy well fed and properly reared animals. Cows milk, goats milk, camel milk, etc. And not just the raw milk but especially fermented milk products which are exceedingly healthy, even healthier than raw milk. > better give http://www.notmilk.com another look and THIS time read ALL > the information. I did read that crap. And it has no basis in reality. Here is some real information for you: http://www.realmilk.com/why.html http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/homogenization.html http://www.westonaprice.org/transition/dairy.html Stop wasting your time and mine with that animal-rights propaganda nonsense from PETA et al. TC > also mean without applying growth hormones and un-necessary medication. I gather that the controversial "recombinant Bovine Somatotropine" (rBST hormone) is used in some US dairy farms to increase milk productivity, but Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand and all 25 countries in the European Union have prohibited the practice of injecting the hormone into cows. http://www.american.edu/TED/milk.htm http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/news/local/15271158.htm Anyway, I should think that even in the US concerned consumers can choose and buy organic milk, instead of "hormone" milk. > > > > > > > Real cow's milk protein or denatured overly processed ultra-high > > > > > > > temperature pasteurized cow's milk protein? There is a difference. [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Wrong. Right, not wrong. And here is where you show your complete ignorance. Only when > the proteins and fats are malformed from over exposure to heat and > homogenization does it cause problems. Do you not read what is written? Incorrect. Any milk will introduce intact hormones and proteins into the bloodstream causing trouble. I do agree that homogenization will introduce more because of the encapsulation of proteins by the shattered fats. > > Face it buddy, where in nature do you see any mammal wean it's young > > from it's own milk and have it then spend a lifetime consuming the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the raw milk but especially fermented milk products which are > exceedingly healthy, even healthier than raw milk. Did you know that in the Middle Ages in Europe the cow only weighed 400 lbs? How much milk do you think it produced? > > better give http://www.notmilk.com another look and THIS time read ALL > > the information. > > I did read that crap. And it has no basis in reality. You wish....... > Here is some real information for you: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > TC You true agenda is showing. You are a dairy industry shill. > > > > > > > > Real cow's milk protein or denatured overly processed ultra-high > > > > > > > > temperature pasteurized cow's milk protein? There is a difference. [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > introduce more because of the encapsulation of proteins by the > shattered fats. Of course, you show me no unbiased science to back your assertion. > > > Face it buddy, where in nature do you see any mammal wean it's young > > > from it's own milk and have it then spend a lifetime consuming the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > How much milk do you think it produced? Probably a bit more than a goat. > > > better give http://www.notmilk.com another look and THIS time read ALL > > > the information. > > > > I did read that crap. And it has no basis in reality. > > You wish....... I know..... > > Here is some real information for you: > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > You true agenda is showing. You are a dairy industry shill. Actually I oppose the dairy industry because what they produce is no longer milk. It is an overly processed dead food. I support the use and access to raw milk, which the industry finds too bothersome to produce. It is easier to process all milk, kill it as a food and have a product that sits on the shelf for weeks regardless of how healthy the original fresh product is. TC Hey TC, why the f.ck do you keep writing here if you hate us? I mean really, do you have nothing better to do. Of course you'll respond with something that will hardley address what I am talking about, but really, are you that lame? >> > > > > > > > Real cow's milk protein or denatured overly processed >> > > > > > > > ultra-high [quoted text clipped - 128 lines] > > TC > Hey TC, why the f.ck do you keep writing here if you hate us? I mean > really, do you have nothing better to do. Of course you'll respond with > something that will hardley address what I am talking about, but really, > are you that lame? Today I saw a young man with a baby in all it's paraphanalia, several hundred dollars' worth on wheels, sitting beside a guy in a coffee shop. He looked furtively around, took a packet of powdered dairy and mixed it with some water and shook it up and put it in the baby's bottle. Probably a 4-month old baby drinking that crap! That's got to be even worse than the homogenized stuff. Dee > Face it buddy, where in nature do you see any mammal wean it's young > from it's own milk and have it then spend a lifetime consuming the > lactation fluids of an ENTIRELY different specie? According to this wikipedia source, European cats keep the lactase enzyme as adults, just like some humans (especially Caucasians and some Africans). In fact, many adult cats do drink milk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance Many global cat breeds (Asian breeds in particular) share the mammalian lactose sensitivity, unlike many European breeds that have a mutation similar to the European human mutation. > > Thye've shown that high temp pasteurization denatures the protein by > > causing them to get mis-formed or mis-shapen. HT pasteurized milk is a > > dead food. Is there a study that shows that a human will get less nutrients from HT pasteurization. Doesn't HT pasteurization occur at higher temperatures than homogenization? > Also pasteurization binds calcium to protein. This renders the calcium > unabsorpable to bone. Can you point me to a study that shows that? I live in a state that effectively bans raw milk, and I wouldn't be able to get the law changed without scientific evidence. SignatureRon they are not just testing "real milk", they are testing processed milk, mostly baby formula and other powdered form currently running 2 decade long testing baby A,B,C drinks soy, baby X,Y,Z drinks cow's milk well, its going to be another decade perhaps why are they testing them, surely they have strong *theories* that relates diabetes to cow's milk protein, pastuerized or not. are they wannabes medical team? NOT! they discovered insulin to control diabetes. i saw that documentary many years ago, maybe 6 or 7 years ago. im ready to be corrected, but they argue that, norwegians drink most milk per capita. they have the highest diabetes rate whereas Samoans drinks least milk, and least diabetes rate but who are we, even scientist, or me or you to know what exactly contains in some foods, and what are the long-term effect of it. are we to know the long term effect of a food/medicine discovered today? how do we determine what is good or what is bad? with all the pollution nowadays, who knows. even organic stuff are somewhat contaminated in some ways. > > the same medical team in canada that discovers insulin relating to > > diabetes, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > TC > the same medical team in canada that discovers insulin relating to > diabetes, > has reasons to believe that cow's milk protein is the cause of > diabetes) I believe the protein is lactoalbumin. The protein doesn't directly cause diabetes but the antibody created in response to the presence of the cow milk protein also attacks the beta cells that produce insulin. No beta cells; no insulin. Canadians used to consume far less cow milk than Americans. We were aware that *something* in cow milk caused diabetes and called diabetes the "cow milk disease". Dairy propaganda and government compliance with the dairy agneda have dumbed down the population. > > http://www.notmilk.com A few ad hoc observations: Imported Swiss Emmenthaler Swiss cheese tastes so much better than American "Swiss cheese" that it makes me suspect the American stuff can't possibly be wholesome. Also, whereas almost all the domestic (American) cheeses I buy tend to go moldy rather quickly, the Emmenthaler seems to last for ages. (I wonder what those Swiss cows eat!) When I lived in Pennsylvania, I could get "certified" raw milk from a dairy. The cows have to be inspected twice a day by a vet. I noticed that the cream, especially, tasted far superior to ordinary pasteurized cream, and later on, I discovered that the ultra-pasteurized cream we get in here Florida tastes just the opposite. The certified cream left a delicious sweet aftertaste. The ultra-pasteurized seems to have a "plastic" taste and lacks any pleasant "texture". If you shake up raw cream in a bottle of non-fat (not instant) powdered milk, it has no tendency to get foamy, but pasteurized and ultra-pasteurized cream have the opposite effect. They produce a foamy head. After drinking lots and lots of certified milk, I started having problems digesting it. I was over-doing it. But after avoiding all milk for awhile, I discovered I could go back to drinking it, but only in moderation. (It wasn't lactose intolerance, but something else.) SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c |
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