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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / February 2006Why do food manufacturers kill 10000's ?
I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people with excessive salt. I was surprized to see that in the UK 35000 lives a year would be saved by reducing salt to a recommended 6g/day. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3312667.stm The only sensible reason I can see is profit, so it is time someone took a class action. > I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people with > excessive salt. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The only sensible reason I can see is profit, so it is time someone > took a class action. Nobody is force fed, they can buy salf free foods. >> I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people >> with excessive salt. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Nobody is force fed, they can buy salf free foods. Not very easily. Additive information is poorly written in small type. If it were cheaper to produce food with less salt then the manufacturers would be quick to do so. The reality is that salt, just like sugar, is a preservative and therefore helps boost profits. And try finding our how much sugar is in a meat pie - but you f.cking can't. It's listed in with the 'carbohydrates'. >>> I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people >>> with excessive salt. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >be quick to do so. The reality is that salt, just like sugar, is a >preservative and therefore helps boost profits. Salt and sugar are preservatives and therefore help stop food going rotten. It's been used that way for a long time and is the basis of several popular foods, such as bacon, gammon and jam.  SignatureMax Demian >>>> I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people >>>> with excessive salt. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > rotten. It's been used that way for a long time and is the basis of > several popular foods, such as bacon, gammon and jam. Which is what I said. Increased shelf life = greater profits. The question is how much is used. The marmalade I buy has significantly less sugar in it than the 'Golden Shread' variety. The upshot is that you *must* keep it in the fridge otherwise is goes off very quickly. But that's OK, it tastes better than the other sugar laden marmalades. >>>>> I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people >>>>> with excessive salt. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >*must* keep it in the fridge otherwise is goes off very quickly. But that's >OK, it tastes better than the other sugar laden marmalades. It's not jam then. Your taste buds have been brainwashed, that's why you prefer the taste. SignatureMax Demian >>>>>> I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many >>>>>> people with excessive salt. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Your taste buds have been brainwashed, that's why you prefer the > taste. Whatever. I'd rather eat food that has not been adulterated by excessive levels of salt and sugar in order to boost profit margins. If others want to, then that's up to them. But in that case let there be satisfactory labelling of food. It's funny how the sugar industry has always fiercely resisted honest reporting of how much sugar is in processed foods. If they had nothing to hide ...... >Which is what I said. Increased shelf life = greater profits. Don't try to dry fish in humid conditions like near sea without salting it. That's why we have stock fish. The salt should of course be removed before preparing it as food. That applies to all salted food where salt is added as preservation. Like salted beans, salted fish (cod and herring), salted meat etc. By reducing salt, you may try a more risky way, curing the food, But, it is an extremely risky preparation if you do not know how to behave during the preparation. Many people has ended up with a botulism episode. Like after eating cured trout (rakaure) >Salt and sugar are preservatives and therefore help stop food going >rotten. It's been used that way for a long time and is the basis of >several popular foods, such as bacon, gammon and jam. Yes, but those food was watered for at least one day to remove almost all of the salt. I'm afraid many has not learned that. And some believe the salt should not be removed at all in order to keep away dangerous bacteria that might grow up in the dish during preparation :-) I remember still with almost anger an episode as child when I was making a big portion of bacalao, based on stock fish (very salted cod, dried in sun, eg. in Northern Norway), a very delicacy. My eldest brother, studying medicine had obviously just learned about microbiology and danger of bacteria, and why salting practices had evolved in order to inhibit bacterial growth. When I told about watering the fish to remove salt he became furiously angry and told me a several long lesson about the danger of removing salt and letting such food stand in water just a minute in order to remove the salt and make it more tender. So the bacalao had to be made of undiluted stock fish. It is the most salted dish I ever has tasted. I still do not understand how we survived that salt shock. Even several years later he denied to eat bacalao because I had done that extremely risky thing of watering the fish in order to remove the salt. :-) >>Salt and sugar are preservatives and therefore help stop food going >>rotten. It's been used that way for a long time and is the basis of >>several popular foods, such as bacon, gammon and jam. > >Yes, but those food was watered for at least one day to remove almost >all of the salt. You mean you hold rashers of bacon under the tap for a day before frying it? Doesn't your arm get tired? SignatureMax Demian >You mean you hold rashers of bacon under the tap for a day before >frying it? Doesn't your arm get tired? No need for that for thin rashes of bacon. (But, bacon today is much less salted than it was 50 years ago, today salt is only a fraction of what was used to store bacon during winter time in the cellar and is almost a spice compared toward the salting I mention) when sliced, have water in the pan, add the rashes and boil for a minute or two, throw away water, add a new portion of water, boil for another minute, throw away and fry. thats what needed. Stockfish or salted herring, on the opposite, need longer time in a bowl of water. No need for running water. Just change water every 4-6 hour and do so for at least 12 hours. It is really a delicacy. Salted and dried cod is today very expensive dish since the demand is far higher than production in the countries producing them. But, there are several ways of salting fish. Short time salting is normally not needed to desalt, or just rinse the salt away by adding a little water before boiling. But, what is called "gammelsei" here in Norway need at least one day of watering. It is tough to chew unless and make you need to drink an enormous amount of water if you try to boil it while still salt :-) (A real gammelsei (old saithe) is red of color, probably due to left over of blood which is not washed away before salting.) On the other hand, cured, fermented trout is not desalted before eating, just skinned, but most everyone not used to it are fainting by the stink it makes. But, produced correctly by professionals, it is not considered dangerous. But home made by some ignorants, not taking any kind of precations of using completely sterile knives (in older days, after fishing the trout, knives was heated in the fire before degutting the fish and guts removed, salted slightly and packed tightly into wooden tins which had been steamed thoroughly and also fumigated with juniper smoke (and preferably, wooden tins made of juniper wood). When packed, tins was covered by a very tight lid and placed in the coolest place in the mountain farm, but free of freezing, normally a earthen cave dug down in ground. after about a few months, normally aaround Christmas time, the tin was opened and the big feast could start. Either people was happy, or they died after a few days of botulism if the fermentation did go wrong mostly because the knive had touched ground or sand or soil. If any visit Oslo in the weeks before Christmas, a dish of rakaure should be tried. Most often, the fish has almost no smell at all. Smelling very foul is a sign of being very careful >when sliced, have water in the pan, add the rashes and boil for a >minute or two, throw away water, add a new portion of water, boil for >another minute, throw away and fry. I did that - once. Most of the flavour was washed away. Anyway, I haven't seen the beginning of this thread but AFAIK, salt is only bad for you if you suffer from particular types of hypertension. Most of us can eat pounds of the stuff and just pee the surplus away. However, getting the whole population to reduce salt would catch those susceptible individuals. So it's a good way to reduce health care costs without having to do much or spend any money. So we demonize salt and blame the food manufacturers for killing us. [interesting stuff about eating rotting fish, yum-yum] >[interesting stuff about eating rotting fish, yum-yum] Sorry to say, fermented or cured fish is not rotten in any ways. Rotten fish is highly dangerous and can lead to very painful death. On the other hand, the stink may seem it is so. :-) But, it is not. Just sulphur amino acids that are broken down to smelling compounds and a few other stuff formed by autolysis (which is the fermenting/curing method) done by lysosomes and peroxisomes emptying their degenerative enzymes out in the surroundings when dying. In meat also called ripening. Just the same mechanism. Do you call a ox filet from an ox hanged for ripening 14 days a piece of rotten food (of course you do if you are a fanatic veganist. But, so is vegetables doing after much shorter period. Within a few days plant material is almost completely broken down by autolysis if not cooled down) >>[interesting stuff about eating rotting fish, yum-yum] > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >their degenerative enzymes out in the surroundings when dying. In meat >also called ripening. Just the same mechanism. To me "fermentation" implies that there are other organisms providing digestive enzymes - by analogy with the fermention of beer. > Do you call a ox filet >from an ox hanged for ripening 14 days a piece of rotten food Properly hung meat is certainly not only subject to autolysis, bacteria have their way with it, and in the case of game, so can everything under the sun, insects includes. >(of >course you do if you are a fanatic veganist. But, so is vegetables >doing after much shorter period. Within a few days plant material is >almost completely broken down by autolysis if not cooled down) No, I call it "rotten" to be facetious. In uk.politics.misc on Sat, 25 Feb 2006, Derek Potter <me@privacy.net> wrote : >However, getting the whole population to reduce salt would catch those >susceptible individuals. So it's a good way to reduce health care >costs without having to do much or spend any money. As I see it - what's the point in living longer if the things you enjoy in life are taken away? SignaturePaul Hyett, Cheltenham >>However, getting the whole population to reduce salt would catch those >>susceptible individuals. So it's a good way to reduce health care >>costs without having to do much or spend any money. > >As I see it - what's the point in living longer if the things you enjoy >in life are taken away? I don't know if Seltin is available in UK and US, It is sold here and contain 50% sodium, 45% KCl and 5% MgCl2. It tastes even more salt than pure NaCl, but half the dose of Na+. Now, another case is that now some questions the amount of Cl- instead :-) >I don't know if Seltin is available in UK and US, It is sold here and >contain 50% sodium, 45% KCl and 5% MgCl2. It tastes even more salt >than pure NaCl, but half the dose of Na+. I put myself on Lo-Salt a while back, which is similar but no magnesium, I think. It too is saltier than salt. After several years of thus increasing my potassium intake and keeping my sodium down, I seem to have developed a craving for real salt. Of course this is not a *blind* experiment so I could be kidding myself. But I give my body the benefit of the doubt and feed it salt when it asks for it. >I put myself on Lo-Salt a while back, which is similar but no >magnesium, I think. It too is saltier than salt. After several years >of thus increasing my potassium intake and keeping my sodium down, I >seem to have developed a craving for real salt. Of course this is not >a *blind* experiment so I could be kidding myself. But I give my body >the benefit of the doubt and feed it salt when it asks for it. Hm. I now and then buy Danish red sausage (Dansk salami tre stjerner) (Can't remember the producer). The saltiness of that one is so heavy that any cravings for real salt is more or less satisfied completely for weeks. >>when sliced, have water in the pan, add the rashes and boil for a >>minute or two, throw away water, add a new portion of water, boil for [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >susceptible individuals. So it's a good way to reduce health care >costs without having to do much or spend any money. I think that's truly awful. Making us all change our habits just to suit a minority of susceptible individuals. Especially as TPTB claim we are all at risk from excess salt. SignatureMax Demian >>>when sliced, have water in the pan, add the rashes and boil for a >>>minute or two, throw away water, add a new portion of water, boil for [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >suit a minority of susceptible individuals. Especially as TPTB claim >we are all at risk from excess salt. At risk in the sense that we don't know whether we are susceptible. But, like i said, this is AKAIK - there may be a different consensius from when I was last interested! >>>Anyway, I haven't seen the beginning of this thread but AFAIK, salt is >>>only bad for you if you suffer from particular types of hypertension. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >But, like i said, this is AKAIK - there may be a different consensius >from when I was last interested! People who want to can get themselves checked and take the appropriate decision WRT salt intake. SignatureMax Demian Like don't buy bread, cheese, or anything from a restaurant. Also almost all cans of soup, fish or vegetables are out. > Like don't buy bread, cheese, or anything from a restaurant. Also > almost all cans of soup, fish or vegetables are out. Salt is not poison..... You might not have noticed, but the human race is thriving, despite the inclusion of salt in our food..... >> Like don't buy bread, cheese, or anything from a restaurant. Also >> almost all cans of soup, fish or vegetables are out. > > Salt is not poison..... Some salt is essential for survival. In excessive quantities it is poison. > You might not have noticed, but the human race is thriving, despite > the inclusion of salt in our food..... And levels of obesity, diabetes and hypertension are soaring in places where processed food is routinely eaten. One of the reasons for this is excessive levels of salt and sugar in such food. The sensible minimal response to this is to improve food labelling so that people are fully aware of what they are getting when they buy, say, a meat pie or a ready meal. >>> Like don't buy bread, cheese, or anything from a restaurant. Also >>> almost all cans of soup, fish or vegetables are out. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >And levels of obesity, diabetes and hypertension are soaring All of which is costing a lot of money in medical bills. People, or countries, can spend money on medical bills, or spend money on better food in the first place. I know which I prefer. BB -- http://www.crystal-liaison.com/yankee-candles/index.html kruse@crystal-liaison.com Gifty! Shiny! BB! >Nobody is force fed, they can buy salf free foods. then you have to make it yourself, and most possibly grow the vegetables yourself, produce your own pigs, cow milk and otherwise be a farmer which is 100% completely selffed. By the way, unless you do run your farm as about 200 years ago with harvesting food for your animals from very different places, you risk trace element deficiency diseases since it extremely seldom that a little plot is containing all trace nutrients needed by the animal and you. There is also risks in overfeeding on certain elements, like selenium in certain area of SOuth Dakota. In uk.politics.misc on Fri, 24 Feb 2006, Alf Christophersen <alf.christo phersen@medisin.uio.no> wrote : >>Nobody is force fed, they can buy salf free foods. > >then you have to make it yourself, and most possibly grow the >vegetables yourself, produce your own pigs, cow milk and otherwise be >a farmer which is 100% completely selffed. There's no point trying to get me to buy salt-free foods - I find them insipid, and have to add salt back myself. SignaturePaul Hyett, Cheltenham >>>Nobody is force fed, they can buy salf free foods. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >There's no point trying to get me to buy salt-free foods - I find them >insipid, and have to add salt back myself. Well, noone except one person say you should buy salt free ingredients. But, instead of using 10-15 g a day that many do (and increase weight tremendously because all water it binds in body, plus the added stress induced on kidneys, if you reduce it down to 5 or less, food still taste salty, but it doesn't burn on your tongue of all the salt. On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 07:17:13 +0000, Paul Hyett wrote in <news:6DmokoB5RAAEFwMz@activist.demon.co.uk> on sci.med.nutrition,uk.politics.misc,alt.politics.british,uk.legal : > There's no point trying to get me to buy salt-free foods - I find them > insipid, and have to add salt back myself. It's just a matter of habit. Try spices instead of (part of the) salt. X'Posted to: sci.med.nutrition,uk.politics.misc,alt.politics.british,uk.legal >On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 07:17:13 +0000, Paul Hyett wrote in ><news:6DmokoB5RAAEFwMz@activist.demon.co.uk> on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >It's just a matter of habit. >Try spices instead of (part of the) salt. Why? SignatureMax Demian On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:28:56 +0000, Max wrote in <news:gn26029f6v7i1fou7151hd6sjt92gnnv95@4ax.com> on sci.med.nutrition,uk.politics.misc,alt.politics.british,uk.legal : >>On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 07:17:13 +0000, Paul Hyett wrote in >><news:6DmokoB5RAAEFwMz@activist.demon.co.uk> on [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Why? To add taste, if you want/need to go low-salt. X'Posted to: sci.med.nutrition,uk.politics.misc,alt.politics.british,uk.legal >On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:28:56 +0000, Max wrote in ><news:gn26029f6v7i1fou7151hd6sjt92gnnv95@4ax.com> on [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >To add taste, if you want/need to go low-salt. What's the matter with good old fashioned sodium chloride? SignatureMax Demian >>To add taste, if you want/need to go low-salt. > >What's the matter with good old fashioned sodium chloride? You increase water retention -> higher weight and higher BP. >>>To add taste, if you want/need to go low-salt. >> >>What's the matter with good old fashioned sodium chloride? > >You increase water retention -> higher weight and higher BP. So why doesn't KCl do the same thing? >So why doesn't KCl do the same thing? Has other physiological effects on kidney. >>So why doesn't KCl do the same thing? > >Has other physiological effects on kidney. Well yes, that's what I asked about. >>>To add taste, if you want/need to go low-salt. >> >>What's the matter with good old fashioned sodium chloride? > >You increase water retention -> higher weight and higher BP. Only if you are already susceptible. SignatureMax Demian >I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people with > excessive salt. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The only sensible reason I can see is profit, so it is time someone > took a class action. The food industry does not kill people, people have a choice when they buy food, everything has to be clearly labelled as to its salt content, so it is the consumers that are killing themselves with their choice on an unhealthy diet. >The food industry does not kill people, people have a choice when they buy >food, everything has to be clearly labelled as to its salt content, so it is No, there are many stuff in food that may kill people and which is not declared at all on the label. Like wrong ratio btw. omega-6 and omega-3 acids in diet for animal, meaning the meat cells are overloaded by arachidonic acid, making people ill and increasing atherosclerosis progress and in turn, making them dead prematurely. Zhang W, Salomon RG., Mol Nutr Food Res. 2005 Nov;49(11):1050-62. Oxidized phospholipids, isolevuglandins, and atherosclerosis. Salomon RG. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2005 Jun;1043:327-42. Isolevuglandins, oxidatively truncated phospholipids, and atherosclerosis. Salomon RG. Chem Phys Lipids. 2005 Mar;134(1):1-20. Epub 2005 Jan 16. Distinguishing levuglandins produced through the cyclooxygenase and isoprostane pathways. etc. >>The food industry does not kill people, people have a choice when they buy >>food, everything has to be clearly labelled as to its salt content, so it is [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Distinguishing levuglandins produced through the cyclooxygenase and >isoprostane pathways. OK, so no-one's allowed to prepare food unless they have a degree in biochemistry. So most people starve to death. SignatureMax Demian >OK, so no-one's allowed to prepare food unless they have a degree in >biochemistry. > >So most people starve to death. Methinks that was a very farfetched conclusion. >>OK, so no-one's allowed to prepare food unless they have a degree in >>biochemistry. >> >>So most people starve to death. >Methinks that was a very farfetched conclusion. The point is, there's no way that information can be provided to the layman in a digestible form. All you can do is recommend a varied, mixed diet. SignatureMax Demian >The point is, there's no way that information can be provided to the >layman in a digestible form. All you can do is recommend a varied, >mixed diet. Declaration of omega-6 to omega-3 ratio in a readable way should be easy. if ratio of fat is above 25% in food ingredient and PUFA contain more than 40% of the fat: Less than 5 is coded dark green Less than 10 is coded light green Btw 10 and 20 is coded light red Above 20 is coded signal red All signs do contain the number (shown as 1, 2, 3 etc.) And then newspaper whould tell people to be careful using daily any food with red color. And, dependent on how much fat and amount PUFA, the coloring scheme could be changed appropriately. Eg. an ingredient with almost no fat and 100% omega-6 don't count at all, so it might be colored green And fatty cheeses with 70% fat, if either sat. fat exceed 10% of it or PUFA exceed 30% of the fats, the color scheme could be even more restrictive, starting with red color already at a ratio of 15 etc. And green color restricted to less than 3 or 4. (FDA today say 2, in Scandinavia less than 9 etc. etc. >>The point is, there's no way that information can be provided to the >>layman in a digestible form. All you can do is recommend a varied, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >And green color restricted to less than 3 or 4. (FDA today say 2, in >Scandinavia less than 9 etc. etc. That's *much* too complicated for everyday shopping and cooking. Especially as it only covers one aspect of food content. Various colour coding schemes have been proposed, and they are either too complicated or too simplistic. I suggest you read this article: http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CAE73.htm SignatureMax Demian >Like wrong ratio btw. omega-6 and omega-3 acids in diet for animal, >meaning the meat cells are overloaded by arachidonic acid, making >people ill and increasing atherosclerosis progress and in turn, making >them dead prematurely. People are *slowly* waking up to that fact that most human diets are short of omega-3 fats but we are still bombarded with misleading statements about omega-6 fats being "essential" and adverts for supplements. It is essential, of course but most of us get too much. >People are *slowly* waking up to that fact that most human diets are >short of omega-3 fats but we are still bombarded with misleading >statements about omega-6 fats being "essential" and adverts for >supplements. It is essential, of course but most of us get too much. Agree heartily. And even worse, industry still tries to remove even more omega-3 from diet in order to increase shelf time of food. Happily enough, Mills in Norway has now decided to change from omega-6 laden soy oil and even worse oils like sunseed oil and maize oils into LEAR rape seed oils (all kind of oils made of rape seed is called rape seed oil over in Europe, using own brands of seed that has been breed specially for mutants not producing erucic acid due to the believe that erucic oil inhibited also peroxisomal breakdown of fatty acids also in humans, but it turned out to be specific for rodents who was not able to induce production of more peroxisomes to cope with the inhibition. In humans peroxisomal breakdown capacity is increased instead. Our rape seed oils has a ratio of 2:1 btw. omega-6 and omega-3, while most unrefined soy oils contain a ratio of 7:1, while new breeds used in US has a ratio of around 50, while maize and sunseed oils has above 100 and PUFA are the dominating acid group in those oils, while in rape seed oil PUFA only make up for 30%, the lowest of all kinds of oils used for human use. Unfortunately, olive oil often contain significant amounts of squalenes, the first main product made from the building stones that statins are inhibiting, thus bypassing all effects of statins toward synthesis of cholesterol :-( But, statins still have the antioxidant effect intact, but, it is a very expensive antioxydant :-( >Our rape seed oils has a ratio of 2:1 btw. omega-6 and omega-3, while >most unrefined soy oils contain a ratio of 7:1, while new breeds used >in US has a ratio of around 50, while maize and sunseed oils has above >100 and PUFA are the dominating acid group in those oils, while in >rape seed oil PUFA only make up for 30%, the lowest of all kinds of >oils used for human use. I realize that the body lacks enzymes to create double-bonds at the omega-6 position and is very bad at making omega-3. However, presumably the rest of the molecule is significant - chain length for example. I seem to recall reading that terrestrial plant oils sources of omega-3 were greatly inferior to wild fish oil. PUFAs *used to be* the wonder ingredient... seems like they are now the villain. Is there *any* real science out there? >Unfortunately, olive oil often contain significant amounts of >squalenes, the first main product made from the building stones that >statins are inhibiting, thus bypassing all effects of statins toward >synthesis of cholesterol :-( But, statins still have the antioxidant >effect intact, but, it is a very expensive antioxydant :-( That's new one to me. Got any references (preferable readable and not faddy!) ? Any way of finding out which types of OO are bad in this respect? >>Unfortunately, olive oil often contain significant amounts of >>squalenes, the first main product made from the building stones that [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >faddy!) ? Any way of finding out which types of OO are bad in this >respect? Am afraid there are few informations yet, but it usually is the white fat ice-alike stuff when olive oil is cooled a little. The saturated fats and amounts are almost identical in olive oil and rape seed oil, but rape seed oil is clear still at much lower temperatures. Most of the "ice" is squalene. http://www.eat-online.net/english/education/olive_oil/health_benefits.htm http://www.sophim.com/html/fbiophytosebum.html http://www.olivebusiness.com/OBGuest/Kirit/composition_of_olive_oil_and_its.htm Funnily enough (?? :-( ) the presence of squalene is presented as a benefit of olive oil. Another way to tell a good story :-( Maybe they never had had cholesterol problems?? Seeking in google on olive oil and squalene gave a lot of hits. And all are proud of bypassing the main effect of eating statins. Well well well. >>>Unfortunately, olive oil often contain significant amounts of >>>squalenes, the first main product made from the building stones that [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >all are proud of bypassing the main effect of eating statins. Well >well well. I get the impression that for people with high cholesterol, there is no difficulty in making enough squalenes for all possible uses, the idea of statins is to inhibit the excess. The synthetic pathway I looked at showed statins working very early on and the squalene to cholesterol step being at the end. There are, however, many different squalenes so unless there is particular evidence that olive oil increases cholesterol levels in people who have got it down with statins I shall continue to eat my Lipitor. It's got my level from 7.4 down to 4.8 with a good HD/LD ratio and low trigs - and I live on olive oil. >I get the impression that for people with high cholesterol, there is >no difficulty in making enough squalenes for all possible uses, the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >got my level from 7.4 down to 4.8 with a good HD/LD ratio and low >trigs - and I live on olive oil. And there are reports yes, that olive oil increases cholesterol levels :-( Remember, several of the socalled "olive oil" studies are in reality more or less rape seed oil studies. The organic components in European rape seed oils are about as effective in inhibiting cholesterol synthesis as statins, while olive oil feeds the body with squalenes. (Olive oil derived squalene is also used for treatment of patients not able or decreased ability to produce their own squalene for cholesterol biosynthesis, as I understand from one of pages I found by searching for squalene and olive oil. So it seems quite sure that olive oil intake while using statins restitute the squalenes that was not made due to use of statins. And thus, making use of statins a vaste of money. The antioxidant effect of statins could most probably be substituted by a cocktail of vit E, selenium, GSH and taurine, and perhaps som other antioxidants. Would be far cheaper for the patient (but of course much less profit for the statin producent) >So it seems quite sure that olive oil intake while using statins >restitute the squalenes that was not made due to use of statins. And [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Would be far cheaper for the patient (but of course much less profit >for the statin producent) Be that as it may, my lipid profile improved hugely when I went onto a combination of statins with Atkins. I then got fed up with low-carb but continued to eat statins and olive oil. Total cholesterol dropped a little more but HD dropped from a fantastic 2.0 on Atkins to a still-excellent 1.5 (recommended level at least 0.5). So until all this evil olive oil actually succeeds in restoring my cholesterol to its former high, I shall trust the statins rather than a simplistic biochemical model. > I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people with > excessive salt. > > I was surprized to see that in the UK 35000 lives a year would be saved > by reducing salt to a recommended 6g/day. > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3312667.stm No it wouldnt. One born every minute. They make the food in a particular way, because thats how people like them. Gaz >> I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people with >> excessive salt. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > One born every minute. They make the food in a particular way, because > thats how people like them. Nanny statism ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4667066.stm > I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people > with excessive salt. Because if you take the salt out, teh food tastes like sh.t.... It's all well and good eating healthy in an effort to live longer....But when your life becomes miserable because you've removed all the pleasure from it, you probably won't want to live longer..... Eating healthy doesn't make you live longer....It just feels that way..... On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 23:40:19 GMT, Swampy Bogtrotter wrote in <news:DFbEf.23951$mf2.20642@newsfe6-win.ntli.net> on sci.med.nutrition,uk.politics.misc,alt.politics.british,uk.legal : > Because if you take the salt out, teh food tastes like sh.t.... Nah... A salty tooth is mostly a matter of habit. > It's all well and good eating healthy in an effort to live longer....But > when your life becomes miserable because you've removed all the pleasure > from it, you probably won't want to live longer..... Can you only taste the salt? What about the flavour of food itself? And, have you ever tried adding herbs and spices instead of salt? X'Posted to: sci.med.nutrition,uk.politics.misc,uk.legal >> I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people >> with excessive salt. > >Because if you take the salt out, teh food tastes like sh.t.... As is evidenced in many crisps snow. They took the salt out and the crisps taste like paper On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 08:19:25 +0000, Dave the exTrailer wrote in <news:l2g3u1t8ff1hg874ed13uuub2fr5q4l90o@4ax.com> on sci.med.nutrition,uk.politics.misc,alt.politics.british,uk.legal : > As is evidenced in many crisps snow. > They took the salt out and the crisps taste like paper In other words, they sell you tasteless food and salt. ;) Try naturally tasting fresh foods. X'Posted to: sci.med.nutrition,alt.politics.british,uk.legal SignatureEnrico C * cut the ending "cut-togli.invalid" string when replying by email * >>> I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people >>> with excessive salt. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > As is evidenced in many crisps snow. > They took the salt out and the crisps taste like paper Thats because they took a lot more out than just salt They took the quality out and use inferior potatoes >Thats because they took a lot more out than just salt >They took the quality out and use inferior potatoes Potato starch is not a potato. They make such thing by mixing water, potato starch and salt and fry them. >>Thats because they took a lot more out than just salt >>They took the quality out and use inferior potatoes > >Potato starch is not a potato. They make such thing by mixing water, >potato starch and salt and fry them. Only snacks like Pringles. Real crisps are cut from the living potato. SignatureMax Demian >Only snacks like Pringles. Real crisps are cut from the living potato. But real potato chips has a taste, even without salt. >>Only snacks like Pringles. Real crisps are cut from the living potato. > >But real potato chips has a taste, even without salt. Yes, they taste like potato. Which I am using in a derogatory sense. >>Only snacks like Pringles. Real crisps are cut from the living potato. > >But real potato chips has a taste, even without salt. Well they taste bland to me. Actually I prefer the kind where you can add the salt separately from a little blue bag. SignatureMax Demian On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 23:40:19 GMT, Swampy Bogtrotter wrote in <news:DFbEf.23951$mf2.20642@newsfe6-win.ntli.net> on sci.med.nutrition,uk.politics.misc,alt.politics.british,uk.legal : >> I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people >> with excessive salt. > > Because if you take the salt out, teh food tastes like sh.t.... > > It's all well and good eating healthy in an effort to live longer.... In my view, healthy eating is an effort to live a healthy life. In other words, to well-being. > But > when your life becomes miserable because you've removed all the pleasure > from it, you probably won't want to live longer..... Right. Still, I doubt that all the pleasure of life is in salt. It's just a habit. > Eating healthy doesn't make you live longer....It just feels that way..... X'Posted to: sci.med.nutrition,uk.politics.misc,alt.politics >Because if you take the salt out, teh food tastes like sh.t.... Just for a few days. After living with a salt reduced diet for a year or so, you wouldn't imagine it is possible for other to survive with that much salt. >>Because if you take the salt out, teh food tastes like sh.t.... > >Just for a few days. After living with a salt reduced diet for a year >or so, you wouldn't imagine it is possible for other to survive with >that much salt. I'm sure you could get used to being deprived of almost anything in time, especially where there is an almost religious motive to the deprivation. SignatureMax Demian >I'm sure you could get used to being deprived of almost anything in >time, especially where there is an almost religious motive to the >deprivation. well, I'm not religious at all. > I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people with > excessive salt. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The only sensible reason I can see is profit, so it is time someone > took a class action. Lives are not "saved" by any medical treatments, diets, exercise, whatever. We are all going to die - whether we eat 1 gramme a day of salt ot 2kg. I am sure that I could change many of my habits to certainly make me feel as if I am living longer - much longer. And even actually give me a few extra days or years - maybe even decades. But what the hell - I am going to die anyway, I have no control over that. But I do have some control over what fun and enjoyment I get out of life. And that includes eating the "wrong" things, doing the "wrong" things, wearing the "wrong" things and even dating the "wrong" things.. Sod the lot of them, I say. I want to die with a surprised expression on my face and be bloody annoyed at the time. You taxpayers should all be grateful and encourage others to do likewise - it would solve the pension gap problem, overnight... SignatureSue Palindrme wrote: > Sod the lot of them, I say. I want to die with a surprised expression on > my face and be bloody annoyed at the time. lmfao as philosophies go, I've heard worse. > Palindr?me wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > as philosophies go, I've heard worse. Sounds like a decent plan to me too :-) SignatureCarl Waring http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495 Sideways into my coffin, wheels locked, bottle of Jack in one hand and a spliff in the other, screaming "Yeehah! What a ride!" :-) On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 01:15:31 +0000, Palindr?me <me9@privacy.net> wrote: >You taxpayers should all be grateful and encourage others to do likewise >- it would solve the pension gap problem, overnight... I'm quite sure that the increased hospital bills and increased insurance bills far outweigh the reduced problems with pension bills. Especially those who smokes and fill up all corridors in hospitals with cancer surgery and lung transplantations, or extremely fat people having lot of diseases, which make them not fit for doing any work at all, just vegetate on others. >I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people with >excessive salt. Maybe you should try working out if and how first. >I was surprized to see that in the UK 35000 lives a year would be saved >by reducing salt to a recommended 6g/day. >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3312667.stm You were surprised to find complete bollocks published by the BBC ? http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/281/5379/898?ijkey=ATm56Jl8nBVYU http://oz.berkeley.edu/users/freedman/573.pdf In uk.politics.misc on Wed, 1 Feb 2006 at 14:59:19, Dave wrote : >I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people with >excessive salt. > >I was surprized to see that in the UK 35000 lives a year would be saved >by reducing salt to a recommended 6g/day. Would it, though? I find that reduced-salt food lacks taste, so I just add the salt back myself... SignaturePaul Hyett, Cheltenham > In uk.politics.misc on Wed, 1 Feb 2006 at 14:59:19, Dave wrote : >> I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many people [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I find that reduced-salt food lacks taste, so I just add the salt back > myself... Which would be the sensible but not the profit efficient way of doing it. The salt is in there for a reason. It lenghtens the life of the food on the supermarket shelf. >I am trying to work out why the food business kills so many >people with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > someone > took a class action. People like the taste of salted foods, its been the additive of choice since the cave man days. You cant blame that on the food companies. There are other similar issues that you could be focused on ..but if salt and your lame rationale for its use is the best you can do, you will probably not be able to fathom whats beyond that. Your lack of apostrophes strikes me as someone of low attainment, and also there is the assumption that the original poster is unable to see bigger issues, instead of trying to put more forward, in a constructive manner. > People like the taste of salted foods, its been the >additive of choice since the cave man days. You cant blame [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >you can do, you will probably not be able to fathom whats >beyond that. as stated before, the cave man diluted the food before preparing, and so did your great grandma, and maybe even your grandma, and possibly your mother too, but she forgot to learn you how to remove salt in salted food before preparing it. No, the microbes do not replicate that fast making such practices a danger. So, next time you have salted meat, remember to desalt it by diluting in water, shifting about every 4 hour for a day or so. It is far more delicious compared to undiluted salted meat. >> People like the taste of salted foods, its been the >>additive of choice since the cave man days. You cant blame [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >your mother too, but she forgot to learn you how to remove salt in >salted food before preparing it. I don't know where you come from, but that wasn't the practice in England, except for things like salted green beans. About the only salted meat we eat here is cured pork of various kinds and that is never soaked to remove the salt. In the past, food always had a lot of salt added to it; low salt is a modern fad. SignatureMax Demian >I don't know where you come from, but that wasn't the practice in >England, except for things like salted green beans. About the only >salted meat we eat here is cured pork of various kinds and that is >never soaked to remove the salt. In the past, food always had a lot of >salt added to it; low salt is a modern fad. Lives in Norway, in the country side, but working in Oslo. Salted pork was always watered before frying or boiling, and even more, salted fish. But, people living in towns lost that knowledge when moving into towns. I also observe that many don't know to desalt stock fish or salted herring or mackerel, making them extremely thirsty and coming heavily in need of not only a pint of beer, but lots of pints of beers. >>> People like the taste of salted foods, its been the >>>additive of choice since the cave man days. You cant blame [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >never soaked to remove the salt. In the past, food always had a lot of >salt added to it; low salt is a modern fad. A salted leg of pork really does have too much salt to be edible without boiling a fair amount out, but, of course, it then goes into tasty stock and flavours up the vegs. |
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