VP,

This is a _sci.med newsgroup.  You may find more agreeable company on an
alt hierarchy.  Folks on sci.med expect to see scientific citations and
analysis on sci.med groups.

Susan with the Blind Soul

"Scientists delight in disparaging mystics and those on spiritual
quests.  Though they may concern themselves with ethics as individuals
and in an ad hoc manner, few scientists will allow that one's moral
and/or spiritual orientation or level of development will affect the
outcome of one's experimentation or theoretical calculations."

Then the above claim is testable and to provide incentive that such a
test be done a $1000000 US dollar prize has been established for
anyone who claims to be able to demonstrate an example of a paranormal
ability, which the above is surely an example.  Consider:

                                               
http://www.randi.org/research/in

Beyond that, the writer shows a profound lack of knowledge about the
philosophy and history of science and the claims made are little above
the level of silly.  Thiss made with the full knowledge that folk
making such claims use any critical response as confirmation of the
superiority and validity of their views, but such are the silly.

This post really made me think....Mostly, when
will this imagined fatuous foolishness end, already?
Ta ta, I have to run now.

GWC

Yeah, whatever! Just don't forget to take your medication.

<sniped OT crap>

And this has to do with nutrition exactly how?
Ahhhh I see, because your kooky ideas gain no support here, you have resorted to trolling the group
with off topic banter. Your philosophy probably has discussion merit elsewhere but this is not the
place.

Do do realise its considered abuse to continually post OT messages to usenet don't you?
Send Spam and Abuse complaints to abuse@013barak.net.il

you have no idea about the history of science. compare how much developement
was made before and how much after the invention of scientific method, thats
basically all you need to assess the situation correctly.

No problem dude, just go back to living the way folks did BEFORE science
came along.
Oh, right now you are over due at the witch doctor to get that hole drilled
in your head to let the evil spirits out.

All you are saying is that modern science grew out of the semi-mystical
proto-sciences.  I'll buy that.  As we learned, as we sloughed off the
shackles of blind faith, we learned the truth - real, testable,
verifiable, facts.  

That science works for saint and sinner is a testament to its veracity,
not a condemnation of it.  Science that only works if you have faith in
it is the foundation of pseudo-science and quackery.

As far as I am concerned, your argument is self-imploding.

Expanded Version

The Ignoble Origins of Science

Scientists delight in disparaging mystics and those on spiritual
quests.  Though they may concern themselves with ethics as individuals
and in an ad hoc manner, few scientists will allow that one's moral
and/or spiritual orientation or level of development will affect the
outcome of one's experimentation or theoretical calculations. Most
scientists will tell you that the saint and the scoundrel will produce
the exact same results in a laboratory if both keep to exactly the same
algorithms.

This and more, most scientists are of the opinion that those who are
spiritually inclined are those who are not capable of rigorous
"scientific method" and/or "higher mathematics".

I will demonstrate that the very inverse is the case. Science is none
other than degraded mysticism.  Science was created for those who were
not able to perceive or appreciate the depths of existence with awe by
those who had this ability and wished to protect their Wisdom from
non-initiates who would attempt to plunder their spiritual riches and
use them for debased purposes. Science is, and was, created expressly
for those who do not possess the ability to look into the Soul of
matter. Science was a device for keeping the attention of those who
could not be initiates into the secrets of Truth busy with what they
imagined were very esoteric matters, but which were, in truth,
meaningless activities.

It is commonly agreed that alchemy is the progenitor of science.
Please see:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy
As we can see alchemy is called "protoscience" and alchemists
"pseudo-scientists".

But what was alchemy?  From whence came alchemy?
The answer lies here: "But it (Hermetic Philosophy) is not found in
books, to any great extent. It has been passed along from Master to
Student; from Initiate to Hierophant; from lip to ear. When it was
written down at all, its meaning was veiled in terms of alchemy and
astrology so that only those possessing the key could read it aright.
This was made necessary in order to avoid the persecutions of the
theologians of the Middle Ages, who fought the Secret Doctrine with
fire and sword; stake, gibbet and cross...As we have stated, the
Hermetists were the original alchemists, astrologers, and
psychologists, Hermes having been the founder of these schools of
thought. From astrology has grown modern astronomy; from alchemy has
grown modern chemistry; from the mystic psychology has grown the modern
psychology of the schools. But it must not be supposed that the
ancients were ignorant of that which the modern schools suppose to be
their exclusive and special property. The records engraved on the
stones of Ancient Egypt show conclusively that the ancients had a full
comprehensive knowledge of astronomy, the very building of the Pyramids
showing the connection between their design and the study of
astronomical science. Nor were they ignorant of Chemistry, for the
fragments of the ancient writings show that they were acquainted with
the chemical properties of things; in fact, the ancient theories
regarding physics are being slowly verified by the latest discoveries
of modern science, notably those relating to the constitution of
matter. Nor must it be supposed that they were ignorant of the
so-called modern discoveries in psychology--on the contrary, the
Egyptians were especially skilled in the science of Psychology,
particularly in the branches that the modern schools ignore, but which,
nevertheless, are being uncovered under the name of "psychic science"
which is perplexing the psychologists of to-day, and making them
reluctantly admit that "there may be something in it after all."
The truth is, that beneath the material chemistry, astronomy and
psychology (that is, the psychology in its phase of "brain action") the
ancients possessed a knowledge of transcendental astronomy, called
astrology; of transcendental chemistry, called alchemy; of
transcendental psychology, called mystic psychology. They possessed the
Inner Knowledge as well as the Outer Knowledge, the latter alone being
possessed by modern scientists." Source:
http://kybalion.home.att.net/kybalion.html
Now we see that alchemy was the result of people who did not understand
the allegories of mystical principles of mental states trying to put
into practice the allegories that the principles were written it.

Alchemy was a wild goose chase that those who could never be initiated
into higher truths but wished to use Wisdom for debased purposes were
sent on.  And science it alchemy's child!

To this very day it is true that most scientists are people who are
incapable of peering beyond the physical into the moral and the
spiritual. They are people who not only cannot see the Soul of matter,
they disdain those who can and say that those who claim that they can
see inner dimensions of reality are deluded or lying for cynical
reasons.

Science is for those who can only see with their physical eyes. Science
from its inception was, and is, for those whose eye of the Soul is
blind.

Doreen Ellen Bell-Dotan, Tzfat, Israel
DoreenDotan@gmail.com