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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / January 2004Why low-carb.
This subject is getting a lot of posts, but I haven't seen a concise review of the theoretical basis for low-carb dieting for weight loss. I'm just an observer of this discussion, but I like the following formulation, (slightly oversimplified for brevity and clarity): Macronutrients: carbohydrates fat protein when digested put the following into the blood: carbs - glucose fat - fatty acids protein - amino acids resulting in carbs - available energy BUT damage to kidneys, eyes, capillaries when glucose concentration is too high fat - available energy plus useful material (essential fats) protein - available energy plus useful material (essential amino acids) (There are no essential carbs.) High glucose is a problem that the body solves with insulin. Insulin scavenges the excess glucose out of the blood. What happens to the excess glucose? It gets stored in fat cells as fat. Moral: Keep blood glucose below the level that elicits large amounts of insulin. How? Avoid excess carbs, especially carbs that digest quickly. Or use up the glucose by intense, prolonged exercise. If this is wrong, tell me about it. Ben Green > when digested put the following into the blood: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > carbs - available energy BUT damage to kidneys, eyes, capillaries when > glucose concentration is too high You absolutely must offer a cite for this beauty. Do all the vegans know this? I think we better alert them especially those that wear glasses. > fat - available energy plus useful material (essential fats) I notice for carbs you talk about excess, well what about excessive fat. > protein - available energy plus useful material (essential amino acids) And again what about excessive proteins? Hell, what about excessive calories in general regardless type. If One's body needs 2000 Kcal a day and I import 2500 a day, regardless of whence they come, call Goodyear to size up their next blimp. > How? Avoid excess carbs, especially carbs that digest quickly. > Or use up the glucose by intense, prolonged exercise. YOu can also try exercise and not necessarily prolonged (45-60) minutes days and then eat a delicious balanced diet(less the simple carbs and bad fat) > If this is wrong, tell me about it. Judging from the biasses/myths of your question are you really looking for valid info?  SignatureDoug Freese "Caveat Lector" dfreeseS@NOBShvc.rr.com ............ > > fat - available energy plus useful material (essential fats) > > I notice for carbs you talk about excess, well what about excessive > fat. According to my understanding of the body-builders' diets, a high-fat diet in the absence of carbs does not lead to fat storage. > > protein - available energy plus useful material (essential amino acids) > > And again what about excessive proteins? It takes a huge amount of protein to damage the kidneys. .... > > If this is wrong, tell me about it. > > Judging from the biasses/myths of your question are you really > looking for valid info? Yes. Thanks for your comments. Ben > > carbs - available energy BUT damage to kidneys, eyes, capillaries when > > glucose concentration is too high > > You absolutely must offer a cite for this beauty. Do all the vegans > know this? I think we better alert them especially those that wear > glasses. I think he meant when the person was diabetic -- diabetic retinopathy isn't so much a direct relationship to sugar, but rather to circulatory damage from sugar. During times of darkness, the oxygen requirement of the eyes increases (rather than decreases) and, in diabetics, they can't get the oxygen to the eyes. The consequence is hemorrhaging. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992472 Signature_Deirdre http://deirdre.net "Dogs may have kept us company on the hunt, but it was the cats who insisted we invent houses and discover fire." -- Khiem Tran >If this is wrong, tell me about it. ok >carbs - available energy BUT damage to kidneys, eyes, capillaries when >glucose concentration is too high Only happens in diabetes so way too paranoid and simplistic >(There are no essential carbs.) The brain can only thrive on blood glucose thus CHO eventually becomes an essential nutrient. The state of ketosis (arising from CHO deficiency) is not too healthy either >High glucose is a problem that the body solves with insulin. >Insulin scavenges the excess glucose out of the blood. >What happens to the excess glucose? It gets stored in fat cells as fat. Insulin helps drive Glu into cells for mitochondrial function and energy (calorie) utilization. Saying it goes to fat cells for storage in totality is totally erroneous. Every body is different and some do better on lower or moderate CHO because they are prone (likely genetically) to syndrome x / insulin insensitivity / metabolic syndrome / pre diabetes. These individuals should exercise daily, moderate CHO with protein at each feeding, supplement with insulin sensitizers, medication if needed. The propaganda that every human being is better off on "low carb" diet is a farce and spun to make money. Seems many are buying it. Chuck Balzer, MS RD > >If this is wrong, tell me about it. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Only happens in diabetes so way too paranoid and simplistic Yes, because in diabetes, one's insulin production (if any) is insufficient. In normals, insulin is what keeps the BG from getting too high. We have no disagreement. > >(There are no essential carbs.) > > The brain can only thrive on blood glucose thus CHO eventually becomes an > essential nutrient. The state of ketosis (arising from CHO deficiency) is not > too healthy either I believe this is wrong. The brain can also thrive on ketones. What is "not too healthy" is not ketones but ketoacidosis. Two arctic explorers in the 1920's lived for a year on an eskimo diet of protein and fat only under medical supervision for a year and suffered no ill effects (cited in Atkins's book). > >High glucose is a problem that the body solves with insulin. > >Insulin scavenges the excess glucose out of the blood. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (calorie) utilization. Saying it goes to fat cells for storage in totality is > totally erroneous. Thank you. > Every body is different and some do better on lower or moderate CHO because > they are prone (likely genetically) to syndrome x / insulin insensitivity / > metabolic syndrome / pre diabetes. Yes, but what causes people to become insulin-insensitive? What happened to millions of Americans in the 1990's to change their cells to insulin-insensitive? Could it be excessive donuts, soda and french fires? These individuals should exercise daily, > moderate CHO with protein at each feeding, supplement with insulin sensitizers, > medication if needed. The propaganda that every human being is better off on > "low carb" diet is a farce and spun to make money. Seems many are buying it. You may be right. Time will tell. Thanks for your comments. > Chuck Balzer, MS RD >Yes, because in diabetes, one's insulin production (if any) is insufficient. Wrong. In fact most diabetics (type2) produce plenty of insulin but the cell receptivity is altered (obesity or other malfunctions) >In normals, insulin is what keeps the BG from getting too high "Normals" have both adequate insulin and properly functioning insulin reception at the cellular level. >I believe this is wrong. The brain can also thrive on ketones Without glucose the brain will eventually die. >suffered no ill effects (cited in >Atkins's book). Now there is a scientific source without bias >Yes, but what causes people to become insulin-insensitive? Theories abound but the strongest are obesity, genetic predisposition, reduced activity, increased refined CHO. I have my own additions to that such as heavy metal toxicity both minute and severe thus altering hormonal and endocrine balances as well as stresses of our modern world. Likely a combination of all of the aforementioned. > Could it be excessive donuts, soda and french fires? Certainly exacerbates the obesity part of the equation or actually the "overfat" part which interferes with insulin function. >You may be right. Time will tell. Thanks for your comments. Your welcome. Good discussion. Chuck > >Yes, because in diabetes, one's insulin production (if any) is insufficient. > > Wrong. In fact most diabetics (type2) produce plenty of insulin but the cell > receptivity is altered (obesity or other malfunctions) And BECAUSE the cell receptivity is altered, even "plenty" of insulin is insufficient. ... > >I believe this is wrong. The brain can also thrive on ketones > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Now there is a scientific source without bias This can be settled by following up Atkins's references. > >Yes, but what causes people to become insulin-insensitive? > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Chuck > > >Yes, because in diabetes, one's insulin production (if any) is > insufficient. > > > > Wrong. In fact most diabetics (type2) produce plenty of insulin but the > cell > > receptivity is altered (obesity or other malfunctions) And I replied > And BECAUSE the cell receptivity is altered, even "plenty" of insulin is > insufficient. My further comment: The experience of diabetics gives a clue to the role of insulin in obesity. Type 2 diabetics produce abundant (although insufficient) insulin. They typically are very overweight. Type 1 diabetics produce little or no insulin. They are typically wasting away no matter how much they eat. Ben >And BECAUSE the cell receptivity is altered, even "plenty" of insulin is >insufficient. Good point. Some type 2's actually have an over abundance of insulin as the body tries to adjust through natural homeostasis. "It falls on deaf cells" if you will - as you stated - the receptivity is faltered. >This can be settled by following up Atkins's references. Just a cheap jab on my part. I think Atkins was a pioneer but I also think he mixed his venturistic findings with junk science for $$ Chuck >> receptivity is altered (obesity or other malfunctions) > >And BECAUSE the cell receptivity is altered, even "plenty" of insulin is >insufficient. there are several ways that make a cell insensible toward insuline. Lack of chromium bound chromomoduline being one, too much glucagon (tnf-alfa increases glucagon release and increase sensitivity toward glucagon in liver cells and diminish insuline sensitivity, tnf-alpha is a cytokin released in disease, infections etc. It reminds me that also adipocytes may produce tnf-alpha under certain circumstances. > >> receptivity is altered (obesity or other malfunctions) > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > It reminds me that also adipocytes may produce tnf-alpha under certain > circumstances. I hate it when adipocytes do that. > >If this is wrong, tell me about it. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Only happens in diabetes so way too paranoid and simplistic Wrong. It happens in everyone. The degree of insulin resistance and or inability to produce insulin is a result of how much accumulated damage has been done to the islet tissues or the beta-cell receptors. Same with kidneys, eye and capillary damage. Glucose damages them, the damage is gradual until such time as a person is diagnosed as pre-diabetic or diabetic. You should be fully aware that it is not a situation as to whether the tissues are damaged or not but is an issues as to how much (what degree) of damage is done and does it produce visible or obvousl symptoms. > >(There are no essential carbs.) > > The brain can only thrive on blood glucose thus CHO eventually becomes an > essential nutrient. The state of ketosis (arising from CHO deficiency) is not > too healthy either Bullshit. The body can produce the necessary carbs with no carb foods in the diet whatsoever. The state of ketosis is not a dangerous state. It is a normal state. You are confusing ketosis with ketoacidosis. > >High glucose is a problem that the body solves with insulin. > >Insulin scavenges the excess glucose out of the blood. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (calorie) utilization. Saying it goes to fat cells for storage in totality is > totally erroneous. Bullshit again. Any basic bio-chemistry textbook will tell you in the first or second chapter that excess carbs are converted to fat. Your statement is false, misleading, fraudulent and stupid. > Every body is different and some do better on lower or moderate CHO because > they are prone (likely genetically) to syndrome x / insulin insensitivity / > metabolic syndrome / pre diabetes. These individuals should exercise daily, > moderate CHO with protein at each feeding, supplement with insulin sensitizers, Bullshit again. Everybody is not different. We are of the same species and we metabolize and utilize the three mmacro-nutrients in exactly the same way. If we were not the same, then all of our bio-chemistry textbooks are completely wrong. Those with syndrome X / insulin insensitivity / metabolic syndrome / pre diabetes are all the same as every one else except they have been damaged by a diet with way to many refined carbs over too long a period. When you say moderate CHO you are contradicting every thing you've said so far. The basis of a low-carb diet is to moderate CHO, specifically the refined and High-GI-load carbs. Sugars, refined grains and other high-GI-load foods. And what exactly are insulin sensitizers? > medication if needed. The propaganda that every human being is better off on > "low carb" diet is a farce and spun to make money. Seems many are buying it. > > Chuck Balzer, MS RD The food and pharma industries has done a good job of creating the impression that carbs are the best thing since sliced bread, even the heavily refined and/or sugar overloaded carbs. That is the farce that we are dealing with here, they did it to make money. And you've bought into it. Well Chuck, you've shown us just how misinformed a Registered Dietition can be. You really do not have a clue. Next time you get an education, try learning with a bit of a critical mind and don't just blindly accept everything that is being presented to you. TC |
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