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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / August 2005

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Is salt REALLY that bad for you?

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anon_a_mouse@msn.com - 02 Aug 2005 02:30 GMT
I keep hearing how people consume way too much salt, how it contributes
to all sorts of health problems, etc.  I decided to lower my salt
intake.  Soon after, I noticed I often got these horrible cramps --
usually in the middle of the night . . . as if I don't have enough
trouble sleeping! -- and frequent twitches, fasciculations, or whatever
you call it.  Is that a normal response to lower salt intake?  (If it
is, I'll pour on the salt, no matter what any doc tells me!!!!)  I then
decided to add some salt to my drinking water -- about 1 - 2 tsp/gallon
-- and this seemed to eliminate the cramps.  (And best of all, I didn't
have to pee almost every freakin' hour!)  Despite adding the salt, my
blood pressure is still a healthy 110/40.  Is this "lower the salt"
stuff for everyone, or are they just talking about sedentary people?
(I'm a mailman, so I walk all day, plus I ride a bicycle 150 - 200
miles/week.)
Dr Tomato - 02 Aug 2005 04:33 GMT
>I keep hearing how people consume way too much salt, how it contributes
> to all sorts of health problems, etc.  I decided to lower my salt
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> (I'm a mailman, so I walk all day, plus I ride a bicycle 150 - 200
> miles/week.)

The diastolic pressure is extremely low. I'd suggest getting that checked out.

Having to pee all the time also not so good. How much water do you drink?

Salt reduction is advised to reduce blood pressure if hypertensive. No need in this case.

T.
montygram - 02 Aug 2005 05:06 GMT
When you've got more than a difference of 60 (110-40=70) you've got a
potential problem.  But what do you do?  Most doctors are just drug
dispensers, really (that's what they've become recently).  Get
magnesium citrate immediately and take a little with each meal.
Calcium citrate and vitamin D are important also.  I know of your
condition from personal experience, although there's no way to know if
it's the same thing, of course.  Magnesium and calcium are
macronutrients.  You need quite a bit, but you may not be able to
absorb it, due to too little stomach acid production (and so you'd need
to supplement that too, or use vinegar with each meal).  Do you have
orthostatic intolerance (get lightheaded when you stand up or stand
around for a while)?

I'd recommend Celtic Sea salt.  Use it until it tastes too salty, but
make your own food, because "processed" food and restaurant food can be
deceptively salty.  The "experts" say sodium is at fault, yet if your
blood pressure is too low, they give you Florinef to raise it.
Fluorine is doing the job with this drug, and it is more powerful than
clorine.  If you look at a periodic table, you'll see how this works.
The smaller element is more biochemically active.  Sodium (Na) is not
the problem, the clorine (Cl) is.  Hypertension is usually due to
oxidative stress, and the biggest diet/hypertension study found that
eating more fruits and vegetables helps more than reducing salt intake.
Why?  Because it is due to the oxidative stress from the Cl and the
fruits and vegetables are good antioxidants.  What's amazing is that
this is so basic, and yet so few "doctors" and "scientists" understand
this.  They have a lot of knowledge, but very little understanding (in
general, of course).

Here is an explanation which illustrates the basic (and real) science
of this issue:

The most fundamental reactions in chemistry are the redox processes.
The term redox process accounts for all processes in which atoms have
their oxidation number (oxidation state) changed.

This can be a simple redox process, such as the combustion of carbon by
oxygen to yield carbon dioxide, it could be the reduction of carbon by
hydrogen to yield methane, or it could be the oxidation of sugar in the
human body, through a series of very complex electron transfer
processes, to yield water and carbon dioxide.

The term redox comes from the two concepts of reduction and oxidation.
Reduction describes the uptake of an electron by a molecule or atom.
Oxidation describes the loss of an electron by a molecule or atom.

A simple way to remember this is the mnemonic "LEO the lion goes GER".
LEO means "Lose Electrons, Oxidize" and GER means "Gain Electrons,
Reduce". An alternative mnemonic is "OIL RIG", "Oxidation Is Loss",
"Reduction Is Gain". These two terms go together, because in a chemical
reaction, one cannot occur without the other; electrons lost by one
compound must be gained by another.

The rusting of iron
Contents
1 Oxidizing and Reducing agents
2 Former meaning (Oxygen/Hydrogen)
3 Examples of redox reactions
3.1 Other examples
4 Redox reactions in biology
5 See also
6 External link

Oxidizing and Reducing agents

Substances that have the ability to oxidize (Commonwealth English
oxidise) other substances are said to be oxidative and are known as
oxidizing agents, oxidants or oxidizers. Put in another way, the
oxidant removes electrons from the substance. Oxidants are usually
chemical substances in high oxidation numbers (e.g. H2O2, MnO4-, CrO3,
OsO4) or highly electronegative substances that can gain one or two
extra electrons by oxidizing a substance (O2, O3, F2, Cl2, Br2).

Substances that have the ability to reduce other substances are said to
be reductive and are known as reductive agents, reductants, or
reducers. Put in another way, the reductant transfers electrons to the
substance. Reductants in chemistry are very diverse. Metal reduction -
electropositive elemental metals can be used (Li, Na, Mg, Fe, Zn, Al).
These metals donate or give away electrons readily. Other kinds of
reductants are hydride transfer reagents (NaBH4, LiAlH4), these
reagents are widely used in organic chemistry, primarily in the
reduction of carbonyl compounds to alcohols. Another useful method is
reductions involving hydrogen gas (H2) with a palladium, platinum, or
nickel catalyst. These catalytic reductions are primarily used in the
reduction of carbon-carbon double or triple bonds.

The chemical way to look at redox processes is that the reductant
transfers electrons to the oxidant. Thus, at the end of the reaction,
the reductant will have been oxidized and the oxidant will have been
reduced.

Former meaning (Oxygen/Hydrogen)

Formerly, oxidation simply meant the addition of oxygen or the removing
of hydrogen (hence the name oxidation), and reduction was removal of
oxygen or the addition of hydrogen. Currently, however, the terms are
normally used in the more general sense.

Examples of redox reactions

A good example is the reaction between hydrogen and fluorine:
H2 + F2 â†' 2HF

We can write this overall reaction as two half-reactions: an oxidation
reaction:
H2 â†' 2H+ + 2e-

and a reduction reaction:
F2 + 2e- â†' 2F-

Elements always have an oxidation number of zero. In the first half
reaction hydrogen is oxidized from an oxidation number of zero to an
oxidation number of +1. In the second half reaction fluorine is reduced
from an oxidation number of zero to an oxidation number of âˆ'1.

When adding the reactions together the electrons cancel:
H2 â†' 2H+ + 2e-
+ 2e- + F2 â†' 2F-
---------------------
H2 + F2 â†' 2H+ + 2F-

And the ions combine to form hydrogen fluoride:

2H+ + 2F- â†' 2HF

Other examples
iron(II) oxidizes to iron(III):
Fe2+ â†' Fe3+ + e-
hydrogen peroxide reduces to hydroxide:
H2O2 + 2 e- â†' 2 OH-

overall equation for the above:
2Fe2+ + H2O2 + 2H+ â†' 2Fe3+ + 2H2O
denitrification, nitrate reduces to nitrogen:
2NO3- + 10e- + 12 H+ â†' N2 + 6H2O
iron(II) oxidizes to iron(III) oxide and oxygen is reduced forming
iron(III) oxide (commonly known as rusting or tarnishing):
4Fe + 3O2 â†' 2 Fe2O3.
Combustion of hydrocarbons to produce water, carbon dioxide, some
partially oxidized forms, and heat energy. Complete oxidation of
materials containing carbon produces carbon dioxide.
In organic chemistry, stepwise oxidation of a hydrocarbon produces
water and, successively, an alcohol, an aldehyde or a ketone,
carboxylic acid, and then a peroxide.

Redox reactions in biology

Much biological energy is stored and released by means of redox
reactions. Photosynthesis involves the reduction of carbon dioxide into
sugars and the oxidation of water into molecular oxygen. The reverse
reaction, respiration, oxidizes sugars to produce carbon dioxide and
water. As intermediate steps, the reduced carbon compounds are used to
reduce Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+), which then contributes
to the creation of a proton gradient, which drives the synthesis of
Adenosine triphosphate (ATP) and is maintained by the reduction of
oxygen.

In animal cells, mitochondria perform similar functions.

The term redox state is often used to describe the balance of NAD+/NADH
and NADP+/NADPH in a biological system such as a cell or organ. The
redox state is reflected in the balance of several sets of metabolites
(e.g., lactate and pyruvate, beta-hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate)
whose interconversion is dependent on these ratios. An abnormal redox
state can develop in a variety of deleterious situations, such as
hypoxia, shock, and sepsis.

Source: http://www.pillscatalog.net/Oxidation.html
anon_a_mouse@msn.com - 02 Aug 2005 09:47 GMT
CORRECTION:  the blood pressure was 110/70, NOT 110/40.
Dr_Dickie - 02 Aug 2005 12:50 GMT
Really depends on the person.
In my family (both mother, father, and myself) if salt intake is reduced too
low, we suffer from othostatichypotension. So, we have to add a little salt
to our diet. Having said that, none of us has any "un-natural" source of
salt--i.e. we do not eat processed foods.

Signature

Dr. Dickie
Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
Poking kooks with a pointy stick.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries,
is not 'Eureka!' ('I found it!'), but rather 'hmm....that's funny...'"
- Isaac Asimov

> I keep hearing how people consume way too much salt, how it contributes
> to all sorts of health problems, etc.  I decided to lower my salt
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> (I'm a mailman, so I walk all day, plus I ride a bicycle 150 - 200
> miles/week.)
outsor@citynet.net - 02 Aug 2005 18:42 GMT
Recent research seems to indicate that reaction to salt is a genetic
thing, some people are salt sensitive or not and things like blood
pressure are affected accordingly.
Dawid Michalczyk - 02 Aug 2005 19:29 GMT
> I keep hearing how people consume way too much salt, how it contributes
> to all sorts of health problems, etc.  I decided to lower my salt
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> (I'm a mailman, so I walk all day, plus I ride a bicycle 150 - 200
> miles/week.)

You are *EXTREMELY* active. Therefore, your nutritional needs are WAY
higher then most peoples. When I used to bicycle a lot, at one point, I
developed nutritional deficiencies. I was especially lacking potassium
and magnesium and complete proteins. If you regularly sweat a lot, your
need for sodium and potassium increases. The RDA for potassium is
3.5g/day. You should probably at least double that. Also take organic
magnesium (aspartate or citrate) right before going to bed. Start with
300mg/day the first week. Increase the dosage to 900mg/day by adding
300mg each week. You may even need more then that. This will help you
sleep better.

Also how much complete protein are you getting? My rough guess would be
that you need at least 1g protein/Lbs body weight. Foods that contain
complete proteins are eggs, milk, meats and cheeses.

You may be suffering from various nutritional deficiencies. I would
recommend getting a book that focuses on nutritional aspects of
bicyclists or other endurance sports.

Signature

Dawid Michalczyk
http://www.art.eonworks.com - Art and Illustration

 
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