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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / July 2005

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Would 2 shots of vodka a day do you any harm?

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chromallly@yahoo.com - 23 Jul 2005 01:55 GMT
Would 2 shots of 1.5 oz of vodka everynight shorten your life?
Jeff - 23 Jul 2005 02:48 GMT
> Would 2 shots of 1.5 oz of vodka everynight shorten your life?

Alcohol is a  source of empty calories. That will increase  you weight. If
you drive after 2 shots, that may be enough to impair your driving, even if
you are not legally drunk. And, if you have liver or other diseases or are
taking some medications, you can get really sick from drinking this amount
of alcohol.

Jeff
montygram - 23 Jul 2005 04:32 GMT
If you are packed with saturated fatty acids, instead of the dangerous
derivatives of omega 6 PUFAs (arachidonic), I doubt that 2 shots would
do any harm, but I prefer sherry, personally, due to its antioxidant
qualities and the fact that I cook with it.

Practically speaking, it will take a bit over 2 years to get the
arachidonic acid out of you, if you eat correctly, and most people are
not going to give up their donuts, french fries, etc., though if you
made them yourself with coconut oil, butter, or palm kernel oil, they
might not be a problem (depends upon several factors).  Most people, of
course, have never heard of this, but the evidence is there, and quite
strong, and fits into the overall free radical hypotheses of "disease"
and "aging."

For example:

Toxicol Appl Pharmacol. 2005 Jul 11; [Epub ahead of print]    Related
Articles,Links

Oxidative stress mediated toxicity exerted by ethanol-inducible CYP2E1.

Wu D, Cederbaum AI.

Department of Pharmacology and Biological Chemistry, Box 1603, Mount
Sinai School of Medicine, One Gustave L. Levy Place, New York, NY
10029, USA.

Induction of CYP2E1 by ethanol is one of the central pathways by which
ethanol generates a state of oxidative stress in hepatocytes. To study
the biochemical and toxicological actions of CYP2E1, our laboratory
established HepG2 cell lines which constitutively overexpress CYP2E1
and characterized these cells with respect to ethanol toxicity.
Addition of ethanol or an unsaturated fatty acid such as arachidonic
acid or iron was toxic to the CYP2E1-expressing cells but not control
cells. This toxicity was associated with elevated lipid peroxidation
and could be prevented by antioxidants and inhibitors of CYP2E1.
Apoptosis occurred in the CYP2E1-expressing cells exposed to ethanol,
arachidonic acid, or iron. Removal of GSH caused a loss of viability in
the CYP2E1-expressing cells even in the absence of added toxin or
pro-oxidant. This was associated with mitochondrial damage and
decreased mitochondrial membrane potential. Low concentrations of iron
and arachidonic acid synergistically interacted with CYP2E1 to produce
cell toxicity, suggesting these nutrients may act as priming or
sensitizing agents to alcohol-induced liver injury. Surprisingly,
CYP2E1-expressing cells had elevated GSH levels, due to transcriptional
activation of glutamate cysteine ligase. Similarly, levels of catalase,
alpha-, and microsomal glutathione transferase were also increased,
suggesting that upregulation of these antioxidant genes may reflect an
adaptive mechanism to remove CYP2E1-derived oxidants. Using
co-cultures, interaction between CYP2E1-derived diffusible mediators to
activate collagen production in hepatic stellate cells was found. While
it is likely that several mechanisms contribute to alcohol-induced
liver injury, the linkage between CYP2E1-dependent oxidative stress,
mitochondrial injury, stellate cell activation, and GSH homeostasis may
contribute to the toxic action of ethanol on the liver. HepG2 cell
lines overexpressing CYP2E1 may be a valuable model to characterize the
biochemical and toxicological properties of CYP2E1.
Jeff - 24 Jul 2005 13:55 GMT
> If you are packed with saturated fatty acids, instead of the dangerous
> derivatives of omega 6 PUFAs (arachidonic), I doubt that 2 shots would
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> arachidonic acid out of you, if you eat correctly, and most people are
> not going to give up their donuts, french fries, etc.,

A bit over two years? Come on. Arachidonic acid is made by the body.
Molecules made from it do many different things in the body, including play
important roles in inflammation and pain.

> though if you
> made them yourself with coconut oil, butter, or palm kernel oil, they
> might not be a problem (depends upon several factors).

The ones that you make yourself are identical to the ones in food.

>  Most people, of
> course, have never heard of this, but the evidence is there, and quite
> strong, and fits into the overall free radical hypotheses of "disease"
> and "aging."

Can you site references that show that archidonic acid from french fries,
donuts, etc., affects the liver or any other organs in the ways you suggest?

Jeff

> For example:
>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> lines overexpressing CYP2E1 may be a valuable model to characterize the
> biochemical and toxicological properties of CYP2E1.
Stacy - 23 Jul 2005 05:42 GMT
Why not just drink red wine. It's actally good for you (in moderation). STay
away from the hard stuff tho.

| Would 2 shots of 1.5 oz of vodka everynight shorten your life?
chromallly@yahoo.com - 23 Jul 2005 07:46 GMT
A shot of vodka (40% alcohol) has the same alcohol content as 1 glass
of wine or 1 can of beer.  Don't the french drink that much, or even
more per day?  I don't eat a lot of fatty or fried stuff though.

I thought alcohol thins out your blood a little to prevent heart
attacks and stroke?

> Why not just drink red wine. It's actally good for you (in moderation). STay
> away from the hard stuff tho.
>
> | Would 2 shots of 1.5 oz of vodka everynight shorten your life?
Enrico C - 23 Jul 2005 13:48 GMT
On 22 Jul 2005 17:55:12 -0700, chromallly@yahoo.com wrote in
<news:1122080112.108512.65560@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> on
sci.med.nutrition :

> Would 2 shots of 1.5 oz of vodka everynight shorten your life?

I believe alcohol is less damaging if you drink it (moderately) during
meals.
I also gather there are chronic diseases where alcohol is a no-no.

Signature

Enrico C

John Sankey - 23 Jul 2005 14:40 GMT
Red wine in moderation is considered to be good for you, both
because of the flavonoids in grape juice and because a bit
of alcohol reduces stress levels in most people. Vodka is
just alcohol.

As long as you feel no unpleasant side-effects from a drink,
and as long as your liver is in good shape, the evidence is
that two drinks a day might even lengthen your life a touch,
rather than shorten it.
Mr-Natural-Health - 24 Jul 2005 06:00 GMT
> Would 2 shots of 1.5 oz of vodka
> everynight shorten your life?

Bad for your health?  Certainly!

The reasons have been briefly mentioned above.  Vodka is not red wine.
As far as liquor goes, vodka is almost pure alchol.  There is certainly
NO possiblity of the effect of associative nutrients improving your
health. It does depend on when the the alcohol is consumed.  Should
always be along with a complete meal.

Moderation is required.  And, two shots of vodka a day certainly is in
excess of moderate consumption of alchol.

And, finally the negative effect of all alchol is that it rots your
brain and destroys your liver.
TC - 24 Jul 2005 06:09 GMT
> Would 2 shots of 1.5 oz of vodka everynight shorten your life?

If you eat a very healthy low-carb whole-food diet, 2 shots of vodka
once in a while will not hurt you. Two every day may be a bit too much
though. Common sense, eh?

TC
chromallly@yahoo.com - 24 Jul 2005 08:25 GMT
Some of you are getting sidetracked.  I'm asking if vodka is bad for
you.  I'm not asking if vodka is good for you.  That's 2 very different
question.  As for alcohol being bad for your health, if that is the
case then the french should be dying left and right now shouldn't they?
Everytime I see a 120 year old women on the news, they always have a
beer or a wine everyday.

2 shots of vodka has the same amount of alcohol as 2 glasses of wine.
Is it really that bad?
Stacy - 24 Jul 2005 14:00 GMT
IMO, YES its BAD for you. Straight alcohol that goes straight to liver (with
no redeeming qualities). If you're looking for some sort of sedative effect,
go with the red wine. At least it has some good stuff to counteract the
aclochol.

They even recommended red wine in the bible! A lot of people pay to get
grape seed extract. Recoving alcoholics or people with liver problems have
to take the grape seed extract. I take both grape seed extract and red wine.
And if I'm not mistaken, the frenchies consume a lot of red wine.

| Some of you are getting sidetracked.  I'm asking if vodka is bad for
| you.  I'm not asking if vodka is good for you.  That's 2 very different
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
| 2 shots of vodka has the same amount of alcohol as 2 glasses of wine.
| Is it really that bad?
Enrico C - 24 Jul 2005 15:16 GMT
> IMO, YES its BAD for you. Straight alcohol that goes straight to liver (with
> no redeeming qualities). If you're looking for some sort of sedative effect,
> go with the red wine. At least it has some good stuff to counteract the
> aclochol.

Drink moderately, anyway. Even if red wine has some positive effect, you
can get that with *small* doses, while larger doses of alcohol may have bad
effects.

> They even recommended red wine in the bible!

I would look for more updated recommendations, though... ;)

> A lot of people pay to get
> grape seed extract.

Right. Grape seed extract has the good flavonoids and no toxic alcohol.

> Recoving alcoholics or people with liver problems have
> to take the grape seed extract. I take both grape seed extract and red wine.

Okay, if you like drinking wine, and you drink moderately, and you have no
specific reason to stop...
Yet, you could get all the flavonoids you need from the grapes, couldn't
you?
At the end of the day, drinking (moderately) is fine because it's something
you enjoy and you can live with it, no problem.
But if you didn't drink, there wouldn't be any real reason to start now, I
think.

> And if I'm not mistaken, the frenchies consume a lot of red wine.

And they have a greater alcohol-related mortality. Besides, in the last few
years the frenchies are drinking less wine and the heart disease mortality
hasn't increased, according to this document,
http://www.sinu.it/larn/annesso1.asp (in Italian, sorry)

Signature

Enrico C

it-alt.viaggi.londra
(Per quelli che... Ci vediamo a Piccadilly)

chromallly@yahoo.com - 25 Jul 2005 02:30 GMT
> IMO, YES its BAD for you. Straight alcohol that goes straight to liver (with
> no redeeming qualities). If you're looking for some sort of sedative effect,
> go with the red wine. At least it has some good stuff to counteract the
> aclochol.

I don't drink it straight.  I mix it with orange juice or any juice.
That's the reason why I prefer vodka over wine.  I could mix it with
anything.  I like the variety.  How does a glass of wine be any much
different from a glass of orange juice with the same alcohol content?
Stacy - 25 Jul 2005 03:13 GMT
It's different. I'm no chemist but it's more natural isn't it? I think the
alcohol is produced in a different way. Where as the vodka, no matter what
you mix it with, even grape juice is more pure alcohol isn't it?

| > IMO, YES its BAD for you. Straight alcohol that goes straight to liver (with
| > no redeeming qualities). If you're looking for some sort of sedative effect,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
| anything.  I like the variety.  How does a glass of wine be any much
| different from a glass of orange juice with the same alcohol content?
Jim Chinnis - 25 Jul 2005 02:41 GMT
"Stacy" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in part:

>IMO, YES its BAD for you. Straight alcohol that goes straight to liver (with
>no redeeming qualities).

Ethyl alcohol increases HDL and reduces platelet stickiness. Those
are redeeming qualities if ever there were any.
--
Jim Chinnis  Warrenton, Virginia, USA  jchinnis@alum.mit.edu
Mr-Natural-Health - 24 Jul 2005 14:17 GMT
> Some of you are getting sidetracked.

Not reading very well, are you?

> As for alcohol being bad for your health, if that is the
> case then the french should be dying left and right now shouldn't they?
>  Everytime I see a 120 year old women on the news, they always have a
> beer or a wine everyday.

And, idiots are a dime a dozen.

What else is new in usenet land?  Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
Mr-Natural-Health - 24 Jul 2005 14:17 GMT
> Some of you are getting sidetracked.

Not reading very well, are you?

> As for alcohol being bad for your health, if that is the
> case then the french should be dying left and right now shouldn't they?
>  Everytime I see a 120 year old women on the news, they always have a
> beer or a wine everyday.

And, idiots are a dime a dozen.

What else is new in usenet land?  Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
Mr-Natural-Health - 24 Jul 2005 14:24 GMT
> 2 shots of vodka has the same amount of alcohol as 2 glasses of wine.

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

Depends on the proof of the vodka, Numb Nuts.  Don't it?

And, you are assuming that somebody drinking alcohol straight out of a
test tube is actually going to get the health benefits of red wine.
Gee, I really don't think that the French are known for drinking shots
of vodka.

Hey, Buddy, I think that vodka has already rotted your brain out.

Just thought that you might want to know. :)
Mr-Natural-Health - 25 Jul 2005 08:47 GMT
> Some of you are getting sidetracked.  I'm asking if vodka is bad for
> you.  I'm not asking if vodka is good for you.

Who cares what you are asking for?  I certainly don't.

Here are two PubMed abstracts that directly refer to the perfectly
self-obvious fact that vodka is not at all as effective as red wine is
in protecting your heart.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=15567450


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=10961967

Mr-Natural-Health - 25 Jul 2005 08:47 GMT
> Some of you are getting sidetracked.  I'm asking if vodka is bad for
> you.  I'm not asking if vodka is good for you.

Who cares what you are asking for?  I certainly don't.

Here are two PubMed abstracts that directly refer to the perfectly
self-obvious fact that vodka is not at all as effective as red wine is
in protecting your heart.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=15567450


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=10961967

John Sankey - 25 Jul 2005 01:05 GMT
"I'm asking if vodka is bad for you. I'm not asking if vodka is
good for you. That's a very different question."

Wrong. Everything we eat has good and bad consequences. Nutrition
is about balance.
 
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